california Mandating 1.4 million electric cars by 2025 VOL. we tell you what to drive

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Silly pitty still doesn't understand that he's in agreement

With me even though its gonna make him cry.

1. You said people are limited to cars that's already on

Da road...yea do you know that every time a new year

Goes by da model year of da vehicle is grandfathered into that

Years rules? So if I wanted to tear up my neighborhood in a 1969

Charger with no catalytic convertors I'm still good because it wasn't

Legislated?

2. I brought up da aftermarket industry NOT for electric toasters you call cars


Im talkin bout da MILLIONS of cars already on da road, that when da government

Keeps TRYIN to force things people's throat its gonna have unintentional Consequences

Like bolstering da used car market...you're gonna have to pry those cars people love

Off their dead hands.

3. Oil & coal = bad? Lol yea, I guess da majority of electric energy da US runs

On is powered by hamster wheels & unicorn sweat...

1. This point is irrelevant. You can drive your old car without a catalytic converter all you want. It has ZERO influence on the market and the direction we're heading towards as a society. Sooner or later those cars will cease to exist and you'll be forced to "conform" to what is available. 
2. you realize the aftermarket industry would not EXIST without the auto industry. It's DEPENDENT on what is/has been manufactured by auto companies to even operate. If the market makes a shift to Electric Vehicles, then you bet your precious aftermarket industry would follow suit, without question. 
3. and yes, non sustainable sources of energy like oil are bad because, well they're NOT SUSTAINABLE. That means there's a finite quantity available on earth and WHEN we use it all up, we will have to find another source. This legislation is a step towards finding a new source. 

Lol1. Cars all da way from da 30s & up can forever run on da roads thanks to da boomingAftermarket technology (like CNC machines) that can keep these vehicles running for practicallyForever...2. There's WAY MORE cars on da road that use traditional technology, if you think aftermarketCompanies will just STOP support of these vehicles anytime soon especially when gas prices still beingLow and government mandatory regulations on for econoboxes then u got another thing coming

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Silly pitty still doesn't understand that he's in agreement

With me even though its gonna make him cry.

1. You said people are limited to cars that's already on

Da road...yea do you know that every time a new year

Goes by da model year of da vehicle is grandfathered into that

Years rules? So if I wanted to tear up my neighborhood in a 1969

Charger with no catalytic convertors I'm still good because it wasn't

Legislated?

2. I brought up da aftermarket industry NOT for electric toasters you call cars


Im talkin bout da MILLIONS of cars already on da road, that when da government

Keeps TRYIN to force things people's throat its gonna have unintentional Consequences

Like bolstering da used car market...you're gonna have to pry those cars people love

Off their dead hands.

3. Oil & coal = bad? Lol yea, I guess da majority of electric energy da US runs

On is powered by hamster wheels & unicorn sweat...

1. This point is irrelevant. You can drive your old car without a catalytic converter all you want. It has ZERO influence on the market and the direction we're heading towards as a society. Sooner or later those cars will cease to exist and you'll be forced to "conform" to what is available. 
2. you realize the aftermarket industry would not EXIST without the auto industry. It's DEPENDENT on what is/has been manufactured by auto companies to even operate. If the market makes a shift to Electric Vehicles, then you bet your precious aftermarket industry would follow suit, without question. 
3. and yes, non sustainable sources of energy like oil are bad because, well they're NOT SUSTAINABLE. That means there's a finite quantity available on earth and WHEN we use it all up, we will have to find another source. This legislation is a step towards finding a new source. 

Lol1. Cars all da way from da 30s & up can forever run on da roads thanks to da boomingAftermarket technology (like CNC machines) that can keep these vehicles running for practicallyForever...2. There's WAY MORE cars on da road that use traditional technology, if you think aftermarketCompanies will just STOP support of these vehicles anytime soon especially when gas prices still beingLow and government mandatory regulations on for econoboxes then u got another thing coming

Still don't get it. 
1. Exception. Definitely not the norm. Irrelevant as far as a discussion of the entire auto industry is concerned. We're not talking about enthusiasts fixing up their beater 69 chevy. We're talking about industry trends as a whole and your antique cars don't make a dent in the overall picture.

2. You fail to realize that change is inevitable. Whether it's lack of foresight, stubbornness or you're just plain dumb (honest observation) .... you fail to see that nothing in the world stays the same. WHEN Electric vehicles become more popular, your precious aftermarket industry WILL conform or risk of losing their share of the market. This is how it works. Like I've already said, the aftermarket industry is DEPENDENT upon the auto industry to survive. Without big auto, the aftermarket industry is NOTHING. They are a non factor in this discussion since they don't call the shots... get that through your head. 

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Lol..can't wait this years election..if I'm mad about all this

Needless regulation, I can imagine what da typical Republican is goin thru..

Why do cars like da Lamborghini Aventador need Zero incentives to sell out

Yet a da chevy volt being HEAVILY subsidized by da government falls short of expectations...da answer

Is called da market folks. NO amount of government interference can create a demand on a product

No one wants. Chevy Cruze vs Chevy volt is a microcosm of my whole point.

There's things you think ppl SHOULD do & there's things people are GONNA do.

Explain to me putty, why isn't da volt selling? It won "car of da year" award in motortrend magazine.

Only ppl who's bought this car in droves is da government.

That's ONE car. One. 
How you can make conclusive deductions for an entire category of vehicles based off of sales of ONE model is ridiculous. 
Ridiculous. 

Check this out. 

All I had to do was google it... 

It looks like pretty strong growth to me. your argument fails. 

Hybrids ≠ zero emission vehicles..your graph is a fail to this thread.

 

[cap1229]

I agree with everything Silly Putty is saying in here.


That was @!%%+!# hard to admit.

 

[kiendienn]

Originally Posted by finnns2003

There's a line between and practical and luxury, and I just don't see anything above 175HP as practical. I just have something with 160HP and a turbocharger, and I'm very content.

I wish we had a rolling eyes emoticon so I could post 100 of them. Oh brother, YOU don't see anything above 175hp as practical so YOU are content.

If that wasn't the case, I couldn't enjoy my EVO or own a car like a GT-R or IS-F. Performance enthusiasts would be out of luck because of ridiculous hippies like yourself that have no clue or idea about anything but "saving the world".

You forgot the part where I said "luxury".  I speak for practicality in terms of a daily driver, while I'm also all for luxury cars if its within one's budget.  I know damn well I'd get a GTR for a weekend driver if I had the funds.
I thought my statement is pretty realistic, but I guess if you want to drive your R8 to work everyday in bumper to bumper traffic then by all means, but you have to question the practicality of it.

but I'm a "hippie" that doesn't know anything 

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Hybrids ≠ zero emission vehicles..your graph is a fail to this thread.

Hey, read the article that you posted.

But the state is increasing the number of “zero-emissions vehicles

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM


1. This point is irrelevant. You can drive your old car without a catalytic converter all you want. It has ZERO influence on the market and the direction we're heading towards as a society. Sooner or later those cars will cease to exist and you'll be forced to "conform" to what is available. 
2. you realize the aftermarket industry would not EXIST without the auto industry. It's DEPENDENT on what is/has been manufactured by auto companies to even operate. If the market makes a shift to Electric Vehicles, then you bet your precious aftermarket industry would follow suit, without question. 
3. and yes, non sustainable sources of energy like oil are bad because, well they're NOT SUSTAINABLE. That means there's a finite quantity available on earth and WHEN we use it all up, we will have to find another source. This legislation is a step towards finding a new source. 

Lol1. Cars all da way from da 30s & up can forever run on da roads thanks to da boomingAftermarket technology (like CNC machines) that can keep these vehicles running for practicallyForever...2. There's WAY MORE cars on da road that use traditional technology, if you think aftermarketCompanies will just STOP support of these vehicles anytime soon especially when gas prices still beingLow and government mandatory regulations on for econoboxes then u got another thing coming

Still don't get it. 
1. Exception. Definitely not the norm. Irrelevant as far as a discussion of the entire auto industry is concerned. We're not talking about enthusiasts fixing up their beater 69 chevy. We're talking about industry trends as a whole and your antique cars don't make a dent in the overall picture.

2. You fail to realize that change is inevitable. Whether it's lack of foresight, stubbornness or you're just plain dumb (honest observation) .... you fail to see that nothing in the world stays the same. WHEN Electric vehicles become more popular, your precious aftermarket industry WILL conform or risk of losing their share of the market. This is how it works. Like I've already said, the aftermarket industry is DEPENDENT upon the auto industry to survive. Without big auto, the aftermarket industry is NOTHING. They are a non factor in this discussion since they don't call the shots... get that through your head. 

Sounds like YOU'RE da one not getting it...what part Gas still being way more practical and cheaper for 99% of consumers is gonna make it a EASYCHOICE for soccer moms & dads of da worlds to just keep their SUVs & CUVs instead of being cattled by da government to buy what they want em to buy? Answer that one

government cannot create a artificial demand for these cars kust buy buying em themselves

 

[wr]

Green/ Renewable technologies could have taken over a long time ago, but there is clearly an effort to keep everything on the oil system. People who have made billions off this oil climate will not allow the market to diversify with many different forms of energy because it will hurt their pockets. Only way green and renewable technology is gonna take over in this market is when oil companies buy up enough patents and rights to green technologies as to control industry and cash flow. Until then, we'll just keep watching this fake schism on tv about green tech companies failing and going bankrupt. It's all b/s. And as for solar panels, people need to realize that the Chinese took over the manufacturing process of solar panels and have saturated the market with 1st generation solar panels that are not even really efficient enough to be worth the money to install them. We are way past ten right now, but we have this crazy thing in our designed into our products called functional obsolescence. They stay in business by selling the world inferior products that will constantly need to be replaced in order to ensure the livelihood of the business community.

In short, there are a lot of great ideas and technologies out there, but our dark age political systems won't allow most of our technological advances to come to light when they need to. Instead, they drag things out over such a long period of time, just to ensure that they make as much money as possible off of each generation of technology that they release quarterly. It's absurd.

Say for example I invented a flying car with zero emissions today. I wouldn't be able to sell it to the public because this country has invested too much in oil, concrete and rubber just to get around for all these years...

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ninjahood



Lol1. Cars all da way from da 30s & up can forever run on da roads thanks to da boomingAftermarket technology (like CNC machines) that can keep these vehicles running for practicallyForever...2. There's WAY MORE cars on da road that use traditional technology, if you think aftermarketCompanies will just STOP support of these vehicles anytime soon especially when gas prices still beingLow and government mandatory regulations on for econoboxes then u got another thing coming

Still don't get it. 
1. Exception. Definitely not the norm. Irrelevant as far as a discussion of the entire auto industry is concerned. We're not talking about enthusiasts fixing up their beater 69 chevy. We're talking about industry trends as a whole and your antique cars don't make a dent in the overall picture.

2. You fail to realize that change is inevitable. Whether it's lack of foresight, stubbornness or you're just plain dumb (honest observation) .... you fail to see that nothing in the world stays the same. WHEN Electric vehicles become more popular, your precious aftermarket industry WILL conform or risk of losing their share of the market. This is how it works. Like I've already said, the aftermarket industry is DEPENDENT upon the auto industry to survive. Without big auto, the aftermarket industry is NOTHING. They are a non factor in this discussion since they don't call the shots... get that through your head. 

Sounds like YOU'RE da one not getting it...what part Gas still being way more practical and cheaper for 99% of consumers is gonna make it a EASYCHOICE for soccer moms & dads of da worlds to just keep their SUVs & CUVs instead of being cattled by da government to buy what they want em to buy? Answer that one

government cannot create a artificial demand for these cars kust buy buying em themselves

You're a victim of Mental Slavery. In the future, EV's and hybrids ARE going to be the easy choice, simply because we're not going to have enough oil to power the conventional combustion engine for everyone. In the future, it WON'T be cheaper for "99%" (a made up statistic, I'm sure) of the population. Things change....
....Things will change....

...seriously, everything cannot stay the same forever.

..

And yes, government CAN create artificial demand.

Trade in a gas guzzler and get government cash

Coincidentally, my example is actually the government giving incentives for fuel efficient cars. The program was a huge success. 

 

[|A-Man|]

Electric cars will not please the earthquake gods.

 

[rashi]

Green/ Renewable technologies could have taken over a long time ago, but there is clearly an effort to keep everything on the oil system.


I'm not denying the latter isn't true, but there isn't a market or a big demand for these Green/Renewable technologies. If there was, the government wouldn't have to subsidize it.

And yes, government CAN create artificial demand.


Sure it does and look what happens...

The program was a huge success.

What is the measure of success? It artificially increased the prices of used  cars to the consuming public.

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by rashi

Green/ Renewable technologies could have taken over a long time ago, but there is clearly an effort to keep everything on the oil system.

I'm not denying the latter isn't true, but there isn't a market or a big demand for these Green/Renewable technologies. If there was, the government wouldn't have to subsidize it.

And yes, government CAN create artificial demand.


Sure it does and look what happens...

Yes, we're going to go into a depression again because the government is offering its CITIZENS a cash incentive to buy better emissions vehicles. 

Give citizens more money for doing something good..... DEPRESSION. 

Depressions that were both caused by 1. Bank Failure 2. Stock Market Crash 3. corporate greed. 

all of which are government institutions.... 

LOL.... 

You cannot be serious. You want to someone to blame, blame the corporations that sold subprime mortgages to people that should have them. Blame corporate greed, and blame your neighbor for buying something they couldn't afford. 

Manufactured demand? sure I'll give you that. But by the government? Nah....

Besides, we're talking about saving the environment, which also includes your issue with bio engineered agriculture. Those two subjects aren't mutually exclusive, man. You can fight them both at the same time. 

 

[witnesskb24]

da hemi>

 

[ninjahood]

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Still don't get it. 
1. Exception. Definitely not the norm. Irrelevant as far as a discussion of the entire auto industry is concerned. We're not talking about enthusiasts fixing up their beater 69 chevy. We're talking about industry trends as a whole and your antique cars don't make a dent in the overall picture.

2. You fail to realize that change is inevitable. Whether it's lack of foresight, stubbornness or you're just plain dumb (honest observation) .... you fail to see that nothing in the world stays the same. WHEN Electric vehicles become more popular, your precious aftermarket industry WILL conform or risk of losing their share of the market. This is how it works. Like I've already said, the aftermarket industry is DEPENDENT upon the auto industry to survive. Without big auto, the aftermarket industry is NOTHING. They are a non factor in this discussion since they don't call the shots... get that through your head. 

Sounds like YOU'RE da one not getting it...what part Gas still being way more practical and cheaper for 99% of consumers is gonna make it a EASYCHOICE for soccer moms & dads of da worlds to just keep their SUVs & CUVs instead of being cattled by da government to buy what they want em to buy? Answer that one

government cannot create a artificial demand for these cars kust buy buying em themselves

You're a victim of Mental Slavery. In the future, EV's and hybrids ARE going to be the easy choice, simply because we're not going to have enough oil to power the conventional combustion engine for everyone. In the future, it WON'T be cheaper for "99%" (a made up statistic, I'm sure) of the population. Things change....
....Things will change....

...seriously, everything cannot stay the same forever.

..

And yes, government CAN create artificial demand.

Trade in a gas guzzler and get government cash

Coincidentally, my example is actually the government giving incentives for fuel efficient cars. The program was a huge success. 

1. There's enough oil in Canada alone to supply da US alone for 300+ years..Gas ain't gonna skyrocket in price ANYTIME soon

2. Your answer to create artificial demand is to reference a program that used tax payerAnd BORROWED dollars from China to subsidize people buying newer cars thatMore often then not just ended up coppin a better/newer SUV..yea good job

There's a REASON keystone is such a line in da sand...da environmental nuts on da left KNOWWhen that oil supply gets cultivated from our Besties up North Da USA will have hoards moreOf cheap gas for da foreseeable future...good luck tryin to implement a Gas Tax that's recessive to da poor..

 

[denni5themenace]

I have no problem with this.

 

[wr]

^I think with all this crazy weather, rising prices of fuel and too much overlap of proprietary technology, the demand will increase. The more educated the public gets about these issues, the demand will increase. People need to see things working before they hop on.

Look at the BMW from MI: ghost protocol. There was a thread about the car years ago on nt and everyone pretty much called it an ugly/fail. Then after the movie came out a few months ago i saw nothing but

reviews for it. The difference was people saw it in action and the possibilities of a electric hybrid sports car and it was cool to them. It's actually more memorable than the Lambo from the previous mission impossible

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by ninjahood



Sounds like YOU'RE da one not getting it...what part Gas still being way more practical and cheaper for 99% of consumers is gonna make it a EASYCHOICE for soccer moms & dads of da worlds to just keep their SUVs & CUVs instead of being cattled by da government to buy what they want em to buy? Answer that one

government cannot create a artificial demand for these cars kust buy buying em themselves

You're a victim of Mental Slavery. In the future, EV's and hybrids ARE going to be the easy choice, simply because we're not going to have enough oil to power the conventional combustion engine for everyone. In the future, it WON'T be cheaper for "99%" (a made up statistic, I'm sure) of the population. Things change....
....Things will change....

...seriously, everything cannot stay the same forever.

..

And yes, government CAN create artificial demand.

Trade in a gas guzzler and get government cash

Coincidentally, my example is actually the government giving incentives for fuel efficient cars. The program was a huge success. 

1. There's enough oil in Canada alone to supply da US alone for 300+ years..Gas ain't gonna skyrocket in price ANYTIME soon

2. Your answer to create artificial demand is to reference a program that used tax payerAnd BORROWED dollars from China to subsidize people buying newer cars thatMore often then not just ended up coppin a better/newer SUV..yea good job

There's a REASON keystone is such a line in da sand...da environmental nuts on da left KNOWWhen that oil supply gets cultivated from our Besties up North Da USA will have hoards moreOf cheap gas for da foreseeable future...good luck tryin to implement a Gas Tax that's recessive to da poor..

So SCREW everyone who was unfortunate to be born 300 years from now right?! That's your argument?! we have enough oil to last 300 years, so I'M good....for the forseeable future.

There's our fundamental difference. I see things long term... waaaayyy down the line and know that there's a FINITE amount of oil on earth. You don't because apparently, we're good for at least 300 years... let's worry about that bridge when we get to it. There's no reason for things to change now.

There's really nothing left to argue. 

I think we're done here.

like I said... mental slavery. classic case. 

(sorry to bust the smileys, no curb, but your arguments are utterly ridiculous)

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by Wr

^I think with all this crazy weather, rising prices of fuel and too much overlap of proprietary technology, the demand will increase. The more educated the public gets about these issues, the demand will increase. People need to see things working before they hop on.

Look at the BMW from MI: ghost protocol. There was a thread about the car years ago on nt and everyone pretty much called it an ugly/fail. Then after the movie came out a few months ago i saw nothing but

reviews for it. The difference was people saw it in action and the possibilities of a electric hybrid sports car and it was cool to them. It's actually more memorable than the Lambo from the previous mission impossible

I noticed how Ninjahood failed to even bring up the brand new FLEET of super cars that use hybrid technology as a primary source of fuel. the new NSX from acura, the Tesla motors, the lexus LF-LC, and the BMW that was in that movie. Apparently the AUTO MANUFACTURERS can see the trend, but Ninjahood can't. 
There's a reason Toyota is the number 1 car manufactuer in the world, and it's not because they stuck with gas guzzling SUV's and oversized, inefficient sedans in the late 80s through the 2000's. It's because they moved AWAY from gas guzzlers and made the fuel efficient compact sedan famous. It's because they were the FIRST company to take advantage of the hybrid market and understood that fuel economy will be one of the leading concerns of car buyers throughout the 2000's, all while GM and ford was cranking out cars like the (now extict) Hummer and Excursions. lol 

... but I live in california... what do I know.

Like someone already said on page 1...we love our hybrids. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Silly pitty still doesn't understand that he's in agreement

With me even though its gonna make him cry.

Nice ad-hominem.
THIS is an insult. Rewording my username to make fun of my stance.

Learn the difference. 

1. You said people are limited to cars that's already on

Da road...yea do you know that every time a new year

Goes by da model year of da vehicle is grandfathered into that

Years rules? So if I wanted to tear up my neighborhood in a 1969

Charger with no catalytic convertors I'm still good because it wasn't 

Legislated? 

Well laws aren't retroactively applied.
Read the constitution. Thats not how legal systems work. Don't be ridiculous. 

2. I brought up da aftermarket industry NOT for electric toasters you call cars

Another ridiculous attempt to make "funnies" instead of focusing on the topic.
If electric cars are "toaster" then what are the cars we now now? Oil spills?...I can't even think of something funny to say thats remotely useful to this discussion. Thats how bad this pun was. 

Im talkin bout da MILLIONS of cars already on da road, that when da government

Keeps TRYIN to force things people's throat its gonna have unintentional Consequences

Like bolstering da used car market...you're gonna have to pry those cars people love

Off their dead hands.

Ninja Hood do you own a TV that doesn't have a digital converter?



Guess what the government made you do.




They MADE you upgrade to a digital TV...OR they made you get a what? A converter.




They would PAY you to go get one. 


In some cases they just gave it to you for free...but you STILL had to upgrade.




Your analog TV doesn't work and won't work any longer.

3. Oil & coal = bad? Lol yea, I guess da majority of electric energy da US runs

On is powered by hamster wheels & unicorn sweat...

The BP oil spill...yeah great publicity for continuing our need for ruining the environment. 

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Originally Posted by ninjahood

Lol..can't wait this years election..if I'm mad about all this

Needless regulation, I can imagine what da typical Republican is goin thru..

Look...I appreciate conservatives.

I really do.

When you think about it, often times they are the last barrier government has towards encroaching on all our freedoms as individuals. They are needed as much as liberals are. 

But you have a fundamentally flawed perspective assuming that you had "freedom" with respect to automobiles.

You NEVER DID. The government decides what you will drive and how you will drive it. The only reason we sell foreign vehicles is because the country makes money selling them and we have the economy to support that market...Its all about profit. Not your "choice"

If the "powers that be" could honestly force us, they'd make us all drive GM, Chevy, Ford, Caddy, and every and anything that is built state-side...then you'd really see what "choice" you have.

But the fact that we don't recognize our COLLECTIVE SOCIETAL ADVANTAGE to invest in alternative energy is why we're in this problem in the first place. 

Why do cars like da Lamborghini Aventador need Zero incentives to sell out

Marketing. 
I'm not addressing anything beyond this.

When they make an electric or hydrogen car that goes faster and looks smoother, then what will your argument be? Lambo's thrive on brand-name association...not an inherent value to society. 

They're merely status symbols...signals of affluence. They're representative of the creativity of manufacturers...because there is no place that they can ever reasonably be used to their full potential without breaking dozens of laws. 

They are examples of potential, not practicality.

I appreciate luxury and rare vehicles for their creativity but they are nothing more than concept cars with a product cycle. They aren't the focus of the automotive industry.

Yet a da chevy volt being HEAVILY subsidized by da government falls short of expectations...da answer

Is called da market folks. NO amount of government interference can create a demand on a product

No one wants. Chevy Cruze vs Chevy volt is a microcosm of my whole point.

Cash for clunkers?
People can't afford to buy the very cars you think exist. There was a financial incentive for them to them trade in useless items and upgrade to more reliable and efficient machines.

Again, you're selectively making points here. Sometimes the government is good...sometimes they do incredibly stupid things. 

Judge each independent action.

The decision to pursue that program is to encourage consumer responsibility...by them NOT forcing one in your drive way is better than them giving you a choice...a choice you claim not to have. 

If this was a REAL socialist country, they'd arrive in the dark of night and steal your charger or whatever and leave you with a Nissan Leaf, like you deserve. 

There's things you think ppl SHOULD do & there's things people are GONNA do.

So people will always kill other people so should we prevent them from doing so in the first place?
We have to weigh the cost of each potential investment and pick our battles as to what is more important than something else. 

Preserving the only environment we have should be our primary goal. If we don't learn to curb our abuses of such things we will lead ourselves towards being  un-resourceful and running vital elements of society completely dry. 

Explain to me putty, why isn't da volt selling? It won "car of da year" award in motortrend magazine.

Only ppl who's bought this car in droves is da government. 

It wasn't marketed properly.

Companies only invest in what makes them money right now.

It it turns out that they can make money selling only pink cars, all the commercials for GM will start featuring pink cars.

its not that difficult...but sometimes industry has to lead the consumer into things that inevitably more beneficial for the greater good of society.

Again, think with your head, not your wallet.

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Originally Posted by ninjahood

K2theAblaM wrote:

---

ninjahood wrote:

---

Silly pitty still doesn't understand that he's in agreement 

With me even though its gonna make him cry.

1. You said people are limited to cars that's already on

Da road...yea do you know that every time a new year

Goes by da model year of da vehicle is grandfathered into that

Years rules? So if I wanted to tear up my neighborhood in a 1969

Charger with no catalytic convertors I'm still good because it wasn't 

Legislated? 

2. I brought up da aftermarket industry NOT for electric toasters you call cars


Im talkin bout da MILLIONS of cars already on da road, that when da government

Keeps TRYIN to force things people's throat its gonna have unintentional Consequences

Like bolstering da used car market...you're gonna have to pry those cars people love

Off their dead hands.

3. Oil & coal = bad? Lol yea, I guess da majority of electric energy da US runs

On is powered by hamster wheels & unicorn sweat...

1. This point is irrelevant. You can drive your old car without a catalytic converter all you want. It has ZERO influence on the market and the direction we're heading towards as a society. Sooner or later those cars will cease to exist and you'll be forced to "conform" to what is available. 



2. you realize the aftermarket industry would not EXIST without the auto industry. It's DEPENDENT on what is/has been manufactured by auto companies to even operate. If the market makes a shift to Electric Vehicles, then you bet your precious aftermarket industry would follow suit, without question. 



3. and yes, non sustainable sources of energy like oil are bad because, well they're NOT SUSTAINABLE. That means there's a finite quantity available on earth and WHEN we use it all up, we will have to find another source. This legislation is a step towards finding a new source. 




 





Lol 1. Cars all da way from da 30s & up can forever run on da roads thanks to da booming Aftermarket technology (like CNC machines) that can keep these vehicles running for practically Forever... 
AGAIN...another ridiculous argument.
CNC machines are only tools. You act like electric cars are made from wood or something...

We also have 3D printers for plastic molds now. Things that didn't exist 20 years ago. Where were you complaining then?

When are you going to stop making these crazy comparisons?

We can keep any machine running forever as long as we up keep it.

Once 3rd party vendors get into the business then competition will allow them to keep prices low.

Its like buying an iPhone case with the phone once it comes out or waiting until manufacturers can enter the market with better cases and lower prices. 

2. There's WAY MORE cars on da road that use traditional technology, if you think aftermarket Companies will just STOP support of these vehicles anytime soon especially when gas prices still being Low and government mandatory regulations on for econoboxes then u got another thing coming 

 

What the living hell is "traditional" technology?

Technology is technology

Traditional only means that its been around longer than something else...not that its the "default" or the "basis"

Where are the companies that produced aftermarket parts for boom-boxes and CD players?

Where are the companies that produce accessories for the Nintendo 64? 

Where are the companies that make accessories for the Concorde jet?

I feel like you have an overly emotional connection to the roar and rattle of V8 engines over the fact that they're just not "good" for the environment. 

I like tons of candy and I have a massive sweet tooth...but its not GOOD for me. I have to learn to move on.

Grow up already.

When everyone pulls up to the crib in silent vehicles your girl will still hop in. That will be the "in" thing to do.

You can't call yourself a trendsetter if you're...not setting...trends... 

Ultimately the one argument I havent seen is that this legislation WONT CHANGE A DAMN THING...thats the real tragedy here.

 

They'll just keep moving the deadline back like they always do with each election cycle for every major issue. It gets crowds of people who don't know any better riled up but no progress ever gets made.

Look at the speeches of Carter and Reagan of what they expected us to resolve by the year 2012 or 2015...are we any where close? 

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Originally Posted by WITNESSkb24

da hemi>

Yep...its marketing and they don't even know it.

They can't bear to separate themselves from what corporations told them they need. They're slaves to the very system they hope to reinforce. 

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Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

rashi wrote:

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Green/ Renewable technologies could have taken over a long time ago, but there is clearly an effort to keep everything on the oil system.

I'm not denying the latter isn't true, but there isn't a market or a big demand for these Green/Renewable technologies. If there was, the government wouldn't have to subsidize it. 

And yes, government CAN create artificial demand.

Sure it does and look what happens...

Yes, we're going to go into a depression again because the government is offering its CITIZENS a cash incentive to buy better emissions vehicles. 

Give citizens more money for doing something good..... DEPRESSION. 

Depressions that were both caused by 1. Bank Failure 2. Stock Market Crash 3. corporate greed. 

all of which are government institutions.... 

LOL.... 

You cannot be serious. You want to someone to blame, blame the corporations that sold subprime mortgages to people that should have them. Blame corporate greed, and blame your neighbor for buying something they couldn't afford. 

Manufactured demand? sure I'll give you that. But by the government? Nah....

Besides, we're talking about saving the environment, which also includes your issue with bio engineered agriculture. Those two subjects aren't mutually exclusive, man. You can fight them both at the same time. 

Exactly.
If your neighbor making 45K a year thought he could afford a 450K house and all he needed was a wide grin and a loan approval to convince him, then he deserved what he got.

Its a shame but in addition to corporate greed, people are just too silly to even help themselves out. 

I don't want to prevent people from buying things they can't afford...thats how the system thrives...and stupidity is not illegal, nor would I want to make it such. 

Because of our dependence on biofuels derived from corn and bacteria, while they are admirable goals of progress towards efficiency, we're STILL oil dependent...and all that does is drive up the price of our essential crops.

We need to shift the ENTIRE paradigm. 

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Originally Posted by ninjahood

1. There's enough oil in Canada alone to supply da US alone for 300+ years..Gas ain't gonna skyrocket in price ANYTIME soon 

 

OK...and?
Then what?

We're running out of Helium for commercial purposes. Did you know that? You know why? Because we're not discarding as much nuclear waste as we used to as a result of our nuclear proliferation. 

300 years isn't that long on geological time scale.

I can dig up BONES older than 300 years.

Diamonds don't even turn to coal within 300 years.

300 years is only a few generations of your offspring.

What future will you leave for them? Or do you only care about yourself?

2. Your answer to create artificial demand is to reference a program that used tax payer And BORROWED dollars from China to subsidize people buying newer cars that More often then not just ended up coppin a better/newer SUV..yea good job 

 

You're equating how we pay for services (a completely different issue) to what the money was used for?

What if we used borrowed money to pay for vaccinations, or jumpstart programs, or giving kids free lunches.

Would that have meant something to you? 

But no, use the money for more EFFICIENT technology and then you want to cry foul.

Now, was it dumb of some people to buy new SUVs? Sure, it may have been...but thats the choice you whine so much about, right? So why are you complaining when people use that choice?

You can't have it BOTH WAYS. 

There's a REASON keystone is such a line in da sand...da environmental nuts on da left KNOW When that oil supply gets cultivated from our Besties up North Da USA will have hoards more Of cheap gas for da foreseeable future...good luck tryin to implement a Gas Tax that's recessive to da poor.. 

I'm in favor of Keystone because it will lower gas prices.

I'm not in favor of keystone because its methods are UNPROVEN and whatever does support it is shown to not be significantly worth the cost of investing in the effort to do so. Maximum amount of effort for such a small return, if any. 

There is a trade off here and you're only thinking of YOURSELF when you make this decision. 

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by K2theAblaM

Originally Posted by Wr

^I think with all this crazy weather, rising prices of fuel and too much overlap of proprietary technology, the demand will increase. The more educated the public gets about these issues, the demand will increase. People need to see things working before they hop on.

Look at the BMW from MI: ghost protocol. There was a thread about the car years ago on nt and everyone pretty much called it an ugly/fail. Then after the movie came out a few months ago i saw nothing but

reviews for it. The difference was people saw it in action and the possibilities of a electric hybrid sports car and it was cool to them. It's actually more memorable than the Lambo from the previous mission impossible

I noticed how Ninjahood failed to even bring up the brand new FLEET of super cars that use hybrid technology as a primary source of fuel. the new NSX from acura, the Tesla motors, the lexus LF-LC, and the BMW that was in that movie. Apparently the AUTO MANUFACTURERS can see the trend, but Ninjahood can't. 
There's a reason Toyota is the number 1 car manufactuer in the world, and it's not because they stuck with gas guzzling SUV's and oversized, inefficient sedans in the late 80s through the 2000's. It's because they moved AWAY from gas guzzlers and made the fuel efficient compact sedan famous. It's because they were the FIRST company to take advantage of the hybrid market and understood that fuel economy will be one of the leading concerns of car buyers throughout the 2000's, all while GM and ford was cranking out cars like the (now extict) Hummer and Excursions. lol 

... but I live in california... what do I know.

Like someone already said on page 1...we love our hybrids. 

This is something else he forgot.
GERMAN CAR MAKERS ARE THE MOST INNOVATIVE IN THE MARKET.

Luxury high end S-classes and 7 series always cost more not because of their size but because they always are the testing ground for new equipment.

Thats why people complain that they can be "costly to maintain"...its because the use new technology that few people have resources to treat and address. 

 

[wr]

^Not to mention these auto manufacturers don't spend all their technological wit and finances on the "auto industry". A lot of times you will see other future tech inspired think tanks and ideas by the same manufacturers. Mind you that a lot of the future tech patents and ideas people come out with get bought up early and you never see them. All kinds of factories have industrial parts from these companies.

 

[0cks]

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by 0cks

Originally Posted by ninjahood

-this is NOT a absolute though....exploration and da expansive progress in Canada's oil sand continuing...do you know they have da 2nd MOST oil behind Saudi Arabia? http://www.rense.com/general37/petrol.htm

and they're our neighbors AKA BBFs, we ALREADY get most of our oil from Canada, so if they ramp up production with da Keystone XL (which Obama is cockblockin) we can ween ourselves OFF OPEC oil and

secure our energy independence from conflict oil.

Extracting oil from that Canadian slurry is very expensive and you are making the assumption they will be willing to tear up their picturesque scenery for our oil consumption...

Umm you havent heard? Canada is HELL BENT on developing their oil Rich sands land & become a energy superpower..to think da USISN'T gonna benefit immensely is to be humpin one too many trees..

If they ramp up their production to presumably offset us not consuming any more Middle Eastern Oil they would need to tear up their entire countryside which the public over there would not exactly 100% co-sign... 
Also money is a very fluid concept and the government really does control your behavior through fiscal policy... like K2 already said the cash4clunker program got a bunch of gas guzzling cars off the road (cars that were eventually destroyed), and when they hike up the vehicle registration fees for your GTO and tax the !+$# out of gas like in Europe they don't have to confiscate your car, you will just either have to step your $ game up or sell it...

The GOP does a great job to sell their constituents the dreams of the rich and famous... You live in NYC, the Iron horse is all you need but you rather talk about Lambos on behalf of the select few (elite) that can afford them... that's not American at all

 

[sillyputty]

Originally Posted by 0cks

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by 0cks

Extracting oil from that Canadian slurry is very expensive and you are making the assumption they will be willing to tear up their picturesque scenery for our oil consumption...

Umm you havent heard? Canada is HELL BENT on developing their oil Rich sands land & become a energy superpower..to think da USISN'T gonna benefit immensely is to be humpin one too many trees..

If they ramp up their production to presumably offset us not consuming any more Middle Eastern Oil they would need to tear up their entire countryside which the public over there would not exactly 100% co-sign... 
Also money is a very fluid concept and the government really does control your behavior through fiscal policy... like K2 already said the cash4clunker program got a bunch of gas guzzling cars off the road (cars that were eventually destroyed), and when they hike up the vehicle registration fees for your GTO and tax the !+$# out of gas like in Europe they don't have to confiscate your car, you will just either have to step your $ game up or sell it...

The GOP does a great job to sell their constituents the dreams of the rich and famous... You live in NYC, the Iron horse is all you need but you rather talk about Lambos on behalf of the select few (elite) that can afford them... that's not American at all

YES!
I love this...but it goes over their heads so often.

They got dudes on here DEFENDING Lambo's like he owns several generations of them...the closest many americans will get to exotic cars are their tumblr pages...or episodes of whatever reality show is popular at the time.

These dudes are nothing but pawns doing the bidding of people who really could care less about you because...you don't even OWN  Lease RENT... a lambo.

 

I heard a quote and I forget who said it but it basically says that all middle-class republicans are people who act like they're millionaires that are just temporarily down on their luck...they're always "one hit away" 

They want to preserve the system so that "when they make it..." 

...

Stop living in hypotheticals and wake up.

You're NOT in their tax bracket...you can't even eat the same STEAK CUTS they do.

You can't get into the same clubs. You can't meet the same people. You can't wear the same clothes, get the same haircuts, or shop in the same grocery stores.

Thats IT.

Dudes stay trying to act like they're on another level...YOURE NOT. 

But you know what we all DO share in common?

The environment.

When the economy fails and we're back to trading rocks for bread, then all that will matter is how we use the natural resources we have available to us. 

 

[milestailsprowe]

Until we can sell a 15-20 g decent looking EV I can make a road trip in then EVs will not work,

 

[k2theablam]

Originally Posted by milestailsprowe

Until we can sell a 15-20 g decent looking EV I can make a road trip in then EVs will not work,

That's just it though. All it takes is progression. The more people are aware and "buy in" ideologically to the concept of EVs then pretty soon, a 15-20G EV will come out to satisfy that want.
baby steps, and I can actually say I'm really proud to be a californian because of this.