california Mandating 1.4 million electric cars by 2025 VOL. we tell you what to drive

BP Oil Spill Cost Hits $40 Billion, Company Returns To Profit
BRIAN SKOLOFF and JANE WARDELL   11/ 2/10 06:00 PM ET  

BILOXI, Miss. — BP PLC is once again reporting profits even with an estimated $40 billion price tag for the response to its blown out well in the Gulf of Mexico.

In this waterfront city, where many lost their livelihoods to the summer of oil, a mixture of relief and melancholy greeted the news Tuesday. A financially healthy BP means jobs and compensation, but residents still reeling from the worst offshore oil spill in U.S. history are waiting for some good news of their own.

BP said that costs related to the April 20 oil spill dragged down its third-quarter profit by more than 60 percent. The London-based company earned $1.79 billion from July through September, compared with $5.3 billion a year earlier. But the fact that BP returned to profits at all, coming after a loss of $17.2 billion in the second quarter, indicated the company's operations remain solid despite the spill.

"That's real good news they're making money because at least we know they have the ability to pay us over a long period of time because we've still got a lot of problems," said shrimp processor Rudy Lesso, whose Biloxi, Miss. business is down about 25 percent because much of the public is still afraid to eat Gulf seafood.

BP has set up a $20 billion compensation fund to pay victims of the oil spill, cutting roughly $1.7 billion in checks so far. But the process has been slow and cumbersome for struggling Gulf coast residents.

BP's third-quarter performance fell well short of the industry norm. All the other major oil companies, except Chevron, have reported stronger third quarter profits thanks to higher oil and gas prices.

The company's $40 billion estimate for its overall spill response was $7.7 billion higher than its previous estimate provided during its second-quarter results released this summer, largely due to unanticipated additional expenses. The company had already spent $11.2 billion responding to the spill by the end of September.


None of that, however, kept BP Chief Executive Bob Dudley from delivering a rosy prognosis.

"What I can report today is that BP is now in recovery mode," Dudley said Tuesday from London.

At one point he talked about how the situation looks without the spill – an unthinkable leap for Gulf residents.

"Putting aside the incident ... the BP group as a whole delivered a strong business performance throughout the quarter in terms of both financial and safety performance," he added.

Ewell Smith, head of the Louisiana Seafood Promotion and Marketing Board, said people forget that oil and fishing have for decades "worked side by side" in the Gulf region.

"People lose sight that our fishing communities and our oil and gas communities are tied together at the hip. They both need to stay strong to keep our economy strong," he said. "So it's good news that BP is recovering financially."

BP just Monday announced it would spend $78 million to test and promote Louisiana seafood, and boost tourism in the state.

"They made a commitment to us to help us rebuild our brand," Smith said. "We want them to be around long enough to live up to that."

The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration has reopened most federal waters in the Gulf of Mexico to commercial fishing, leaving just about four percent still closed. At the height of the spill, about 37 percent of federal waters in the Gulf were closed.

But fishermen, shrimpers, crabbers and oystermen are finding little demand from a wary public, despite the federal government's insistence that all seafood being caught in newly opened waters is safe to eat.

"I have personally the utmost confidence in the safety of the seafood that is available to the American consumer coming from the Gulf," U.S. Commerce Secretary Gary Locke said during a recent visit to a federal seafood testing lab in Mississippi. "We're not trying to hide anything."

But those words bring little comfort to people like Lesso, who's got a freezer full of shrimp he can't sell.

"Buyers don't have to take domestic shrimp anymore. They can buy imports all day long at cheaper prices so why would they take a chance on hurting their customers in restaurants?" Lesso said. "It's very difficult for us."

Tourism, too, took a huge hit, and the industry remains sullied by the same image problem.

Danielle Yarbrough, who owned Smokey Blues Bar B Que restaurant in Orange Beach, Ala., had to shut down her business in August because tourists weren't coming.

She said she received some compensation from BP, but it was too late.

"I feel like they did what they said they were going to do, but we lost the business," she said.

For his part, BP's Dudley said the company was committed to operating in the Gulf of Mexico following the lifting of a U.S. government moratorium on drilling after the spill. But he said the company would "step back" and look at its equipment and rigs in those waters before attempting to jump back in.

The company's exploratory Macondo well in the Gulf blew out on April 20, killing 11 workers and spewing more than 170 million gallons of oil into the sea. Crude kept gushing until July 15, but it took BP until Sept. 19 to completely seal the well.

Dudley has been working to rebuild BP's shattered reputation, particularly in the United States, and turn around a 35 percent rout in the company's share price since the Gulf explosion. And the company still faces billions of dollars in fines.

Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser, who presides over a southern Louisiana region where marshes and estuaries were swamped by BP's crude, said he just wants BP to stay the course.

"We've never wanted BP to fail. We just want them to do the right thing," Nungesser said. "We hope they make a lot of money and reinvest it in the communities that have been hardest hit."

___

AP Business Writer Jane Wardell reported from London.



Take Ener1 failed investment.. Multiply by 400 times and that is how much BP cost the Gulf Coast... Yet still have the nerve to claim profits when they sold the gulf coast $20billion short. And even then slowly paid out checks. And have fought claims the entire way.

A failed investment >  A societal hazard that is 400 times its magnitude

Investing in something every other developing country is beating us at is bad because it is too much of a "inconvenience" to you is a stupid reason to fight what the world is doing.. There is a reason I normally ignore threads started by you, but felt the need to reply to your lack of perspective
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood


[h1][/h1]
[h1]Ener1, Parent of Obama-Backed Green Company, Files for Bankruptcy[/h1]
ap_biden_ener1_nt_120127_wg.jpg

Ener1 Inc. CEO Charles Gassenheimer takes Vice President Joe Biden on a tour of the plant in Greenfield, Ind., Jan. 26, 2011. (Darron Cummings/AP Photo)

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http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ener1...n-company-files-bankruptcy/story?id=15456414#

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By LEE FERRAN and MATTHEW MOSK (@mattmosk)

Jan. 27, 2012

The parent company of an electric car battery maker that received more than $100 million in government funding from the Obama administration has filed for bankruptcy protection, the company announced Thursday.

Alex Sorokin, the CEO for lithium-ion battery manufacturer Ener1, said the company suffered when demand for the batteries dropped as fewer Americans than expected opted for electric cars.

"This was a difficult, but necessary, decision for our company," Sorokin said in a statement on its website. "We moved aggressively to reduce costs and shift focus when the marketplace did not evolve as quickly as anticipated. Our business plan was impacted when demand for lithium-ion batteries slowed due to lower-than-expected adoption for electric passenger vehicles."

EnerDel, a subsidiary of Ener1 dedicated to making batteries for electric cars, was awarded a $118 million grant from the Energy Department in 2009 as part of President Obama's economic stimulus package and green energy push. Ener1 said that the bankruptcy filing and newly announced company restructuring would allow its subsidiaries, including EnerDel, to "continue normal operation."

The filing came exactly a year after Vice President Joe Biden visited an Ener1 manufacturing plant in Indiana where he proclaimed the company was the "start" to reshaping the way Americans drive and "the way Americans power their lives."

"A year and a half ago, this administration made a judgment. We decided it's not sufficient to create new jobs -- we have to create whole new industries," Biden told the plant workers then. "We're back in the game."

Ener1's financial collapse prompted a comparison to the doomed solar energy company Solyndra from Rep. Cliff Sterns, R.-Fla., who has been one of President Obama's most vocal critics concerning the green energy loan guarantee initiative. Solynda received more than half a billion dollars in taxpayer money as a loan guarantee from the Energy Department in 2009, two years before it collapsed in August 2011.

Full Coverage: Solyndra

Like Biden at Ener1, President Obama toured a Solyndra plant in California in May 2010 where he touted its potential.

"As with his comments touting Solyndra, Biden's remarks on Ener1 show how wrong the Obama Administration has been with these loan guarantees and grants," Sterns said on his website. "Instead of producing thousands of 'clean energy' jobs, the Administration's loan guarantee and grant programs are yielding another bankruptcy and the squandering of taxpayer dollars."

Solyndra is now the target of a federal criminal investigation aimed at determining whether the company was awarded the massive loan thanks to undue political influence, despite what critics said were visible signs the company was already in financial trouble.

A spokesperson for the Energy Department did not immediately return requests for comment on this report.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/ener1...les-bankruptcy/story?id=15456414#.Tyo6LsgmVBk

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so silly putty you were saying?
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liberal moon bats never have a problem spending money as long its not THEIR MONEY

And you have no problem spending money on overpriced commodities because there is no alternative.



A failed investment with positive and boundary pushing intentions far outweighs a lingering environmental catastrophe and the continued padding of pockets who don't care about you.
 
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you see this old piece of %++@? there's a reason it didn't catch on..same reason it hasn't caught on now...
[h1]Chevy Volt sales drop to 603, Nissan moves 676 Leafs in January[/h1]
leaf-volt.jpg

By Sebastian BlancoRSS feed

Posted Feb 1st 2012 1:33PM

72

Comments83


This one has got to hurt. After a record-best 1,529 units sold in December, sales of the Chevrolet Volt dropped to just 603 in January, part of an overall decline in GM model sales compared to the last month of 2011. The good news in this less-than-half drop? If you look at the year-on-year trend, the Volt almost doubled its sales. In January 2011, Chevy sold 321 Volts.

Over on the Nissan Leaf side, the numbers are also down. Nissan sold 676 Leafs in January, which is less than the 954 Leafs sold last month. But, if we do the same comparison that we did with the Volt, things look good. All the way back in January 2011, Nissan sold 87 Leafs. For more on Leaf sales, read this. We'll have our By The Numbers post on overall green car sales up as the information rolls in. Official press releases from both Nissan and Chevy are available after the jump.
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But you haven't answered the question. What happens when we have no more oil or natural gas? Where will your purchasing power go?

What will power your V8 muscle cars?



Located around Fort McMurray in the north of Alberta, Canada, the Athabasca Oil Sands – named after the river that cuts through the heart of the deposit – is the largest of province's three oil sands resources.

There are a number of companies involved in exploiting the deposit, though three major operations dominate the field. Great Canadian Oil Sands (now Suncor) began the world's first oil sands mine, followed in 1978 by Syncrude, with the third – the Shell Canada, Chevron and Western Oil Sands joint venture, joining in 2003.

However, even with a total of around 2,800 oil sands lease agreements in existence with the province covering some 43,800km² – almost 70% of Alberta's possible oil sands areas are still available for exploration and leasing.

Although by 2015, it has been predicted that oil sands production will reach 3 million barrels per day, it has been predicted that the reserves would take around 400 years to deplete.

http://www.mining-technology.com/projects/athabascasands/
 
It costs $27,000-$35,000. For that price might as well get myself a Benz. As technology increases the price goes down.. Happens with all technology...

So because of that we should not explore the technology and make it better and continue to make it cheaper?

You expect a relatively unprecedented technological advance, that most places are not equip to support will come out at Free99 prices.. These companies are all relatively new to the market trying to make something they have very little experience with. That means it costs much more than it will every year they work on it..

You think people don't want to buy Fuel Efficient and Electric Cars.. At $30K when it is relatively unsupported No.. But the price will go down, it won't always be $30K. If it gets to the price of say a new Jetta or a they will be flying out of the lots. Because each year Electric cars are also gaining more and more support not from Car Makers, but to sustain them.

And as well when they continue to build them the design will get better as they tinker with the tech specs..

I swear you have never looked at a Supply-Demand curve in your life.
 
I don't like it but I think I'm fine with this. I didn't read much into it but it's on the state level and hopefully effects the entire green market instead of giving unfair advantages to a few companies within it like Obama's Solyndra loan. That said, I'm hesitant to even give it that. Since I didn't read it or do any research, my natural assumption with any government intervention is that it's unfair and somewhere in there is a line which gives benefits to certain favored companies over others. I'd rather see more tax credits for all green companies so that we can ease into greener technology rather than some mandate jammed down car companies throats. More tax credits, oil prices, and societies general concern would do fine I'm guessing in moving us towards greener tech, we don't have to destroy companies with heavy burdens like this. Also, I'd just rather not bother our righteous overlord Liberals with such a minor concern, they have other things to command of us.
 
Originally Posted by Essential1

It costs $27,000-$35,000. For that price might as well get myself a Benz. As technology increases the price goes down.. Happens with all technology...

So because of that we should not explore the technology and make it better and continue to make it cheaper?

You expect a relatively unprecedented technological advance, that most places are not equip to support will come out at Free99 prices.. These companies are all relatively new to the market trying to make something they have very little experience with. That means it costs much more than it will every year they work on it..

You think people don't want to buy Fuel Efficient and Electric Cars.. At $30K when it is relatively unsupported No.. But the price will go down, it won't always be $30K. If it gets to the price of say a new Jetta or a they will be flying out of the lots. Because each year Electric cars are also gaining more and more support not from Car Makers, but to sustain them.

And as well when they continue to build them the design will get better as they tinker with the tech specs..

I swear you have never looked at a Supply-Demand curve in your life.
da problem is NO ONE is answering da simple question which is linked to supply and demand..if gas powered cars and da fuel that they run on is gonna be CHEAPER then these electric cars

for da foreseeable future, then how are you gonna MAKE people buy them?
 
I really don't see why you guys are wasting your time.

Ninjahood is obviously unwavering in his opinion and refuses to change his stance on this mandate that he so vehemently opposes. Let him. In 50 years when our kids' kids begin driving, we'll see who was right and who was wrong.

*kanye shrug.*
 
Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by Essential1

It costs $27,000-$35,000. For that price might as well get myself a Benz. As technology increases the price goes down.. Happens with all technology...

So because of that we should not explore the technology and make it better and continue to make it cheaper?

You expect a relatively unprecedented technological advance, that most places are not equip to support will come out at Free99 prices.. These companies are all relatively new to the market trying to make something they have very little experience with. That means it costs much more than it will every year they work on it..

You think people don't want to buy Fuel Efficient and Electric Cars.. At $30K when it is relatively unsupported No.. But the price will go down, it won't always be $30K. If it gets to the price of say a new Jetta or a they will be flying out of the lots. Because each year Electric cars are also gaining more and more support not from Car Makers, but to sustain them.

And as well when they continue to build them the design will get better as they tinker with the tech specs..

I swear you have never looked at a Supply-Demand curve in your life.
da problem is NO ONE is answering da simple question which is linked to supply and demand..if gas powered cars and da fuel that they run on is gonna be CHEAPER then these electric cars

for da foreseeable future, then how are you gonna MAKE people buy them?

the mandate is 13 years from now.. You act like in 2 years there will be a force coming around stealing people's cars and giving them a electric car..  The reason mandates are 10+ years in the future is so they can get the technology to reach the portions of demand.

Also those mandate numbers and time tables are always susceptible to change..

I laugh that you haven't noticed there have been mandates in almost every industry..

We also had this discussion in a previous thread. The non-business casual drivers are moving to higher gas efficiency cars to save money. Electric cars are out of the normal hoseholds price range. When the number get to that point the demand will be there.  And the more electric cars sold the more accomadations will be made to support those cars
  
And lastly California is not telling people what to drive. They are telling the automakers what a certain percentage of their fleet must be. And there has long been precedent for governments to have this ability.   You don't like it, don't buy it. Buy something else there will still be a plethera of choices.

There have been 100s of you's along the line of automotive history constantly complaining about regulations forcing people to do things and each time they get implemented and we continue on like it has always been around.
 
Can't spit logic to an illogical person.

discussion should have ended with one of silly putty's posts pages ago.
 
Originally Posted by Essential1

Originally Posted by ninjahood

Originally Posted by Essential1

It costs $27,000-$35,000. For that price might as well get myself a Benz. As technology increases the price goes down.. Happens with all technology...

So because of that we should not explore the technology and make it better and continue to make it cheaper?

You expect a relatively unprecedented technological advance, that most places are not equip to support will come out at Free99 prices.. These companies are all relatively new to the market trying to make something they have very little experience with. That means it costs much more than it will every year they work on it..

You think people don't want to buy Fuel Efficient and Electric Cars.. At $30K when it is relatively unsupported No.. But the price will go down, it won't always be $30K. If it gets to the price of say a new Jetta or a they will be flying out of the lots. Because each year Electric cars are also gaining more and more support not from Car Makers, but to sustain them.

And as well when they continue to build them the design will get better as they tinker with the tech specs..

I swear you have never looked at a Supply-Demand curve in your life.
da problem is NO ONE is answering da simple question which is linked to supply and demand..if gas powered cars and da fuel that they run on is gonna be CHEAPER then these electric cars

for da foreseeable future, then how are you gonna MAKE people buy them?

the mandate is 13 years from now.. You act like in 2 years there will be a force coming around stealing people's cars and giving them a electric car..  The reason mandates are 10+ years in the future is so they can get the technology to reach the portions of demand.

Also those mandate numbers and time tables are always susceptible to change..

I laugh that you haven't noticed there have been mandates in almost every industry..

We also had this discussion in a previous thread. The non-business casual drivers are moving to higher gas efficiency cars to save money. Electric cars are out of the normal hoseholds price range. When the number get to that point the demand will be there.  And the more electric cars sold the more accomadations will be made to support those cars
  
And lastly California is not telling people what to drive. They are telling the automakers what a certain percentage of their fleet must be. And there has long been precedent for governments to have this ability.   You don't like it, don't buy it. Buy something else there will still be a plethera of choices.

There have been 100s of you's along the line of automotive history constantly complaining about regulations forcing people to do things and each time they get implemented and we continue on like it has always been around.
If you don't pass the smog test, the state will not renew your license and you will essentially be "taken off the road".

If the state is telling automakers what to make, how is that any different?  Automakers produce what the market demands.  That's how GM and Chrysler got in trouble in the first place.  They produced vehicles that there was not demand for.  The only way automakers have gotten around the regulations thus far is producing golf carts so they can say that X% of their production have been ZEV's.
 
Originally Posted by crcballer55

If you don't pass the smog test, the state will not renew your license and you will essentially be "taken off the road".





Exactly!  I live in CA and my mechanic has to uninstall the TRD cold air intake in my truck and install the stock one just to do the damn smog check or else I can't register my vehicle.  Ridiculous emission standards here.  I'll be damn if I ever buy a hybrid or electric girly car though so all these mandates can go to hell. 
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Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by crcballer55

If you don't pass the smog test, the state will not renew your license and you will essentially be "taken off the road".

Exactly!  I live in CA and my mechanic has to uninstall the TRD cold air intake in my truck and install the stock one just to do the damn smog check or else I can't register my vehicle.  Ridiculous emission standards here.  I'll be damn if I ever buy a hybrid or electric girly car though so all these mandates can go to hell. 
laugh.gif
 


"girly car?" See, its all about marketing.

Because emissions standards DO count. 

You can't just apply any modification to you car.

You might as well complain about tinting standards too, but you won't. 
 
Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by crcballer55

If you don't pass the smog test, the state will not renew your license and you will essentially be "taken off the road".

Exactly!  I live in CA and my mechanic has to uninstall the TRD cold air intake in my truck and install the stock one just to do the damn smog check or else I can't register my vehicle.  Ridiculous emission standards here.  I'll be damn if I ever buy a hybrid or electric girly car though so all these mandates can go to hell. 
laugh.gif
 

"girly car?" See, its all about marketing.

Because emissions standards DO count. 

You can't just apply any modification to you car.

You might as well complain about tinting standards too, but you won't. 

Yeah you expect a grown man like me take a girl out in one of these? 
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electric_car_charging.jpg

I have gotten tickets for illegal tint but I got boys who are in Law Enforcement.  
pimp.gif

Guess what buddy.. after I pass the smog test, the cold air intake gets re-installed.  Thousands of other car enthusiasts who enjoy modifying their vehicles are doing the same damn thing or doing other various illegal smog testing to go around these dumb standards. 
 
And these greenies still ain't answer da question on how they plan

On makin ppl buy these cars when da overwhelming majority of da public

Is uninterested...ya think GM can keep CRANKING out volts and make a profit

If there's no demand? Lol they'll bankrupt themselves...with expensive cars like

This if they aren't sellin enuff #s they'll lose money & resources

They can use on building stuff that DOES SELL...money talks *%$@%$#% walks
 
Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE


Exactly!  I live in CA and my mechanic has to uninstall the TRD cold air intake in my truck and install the stock one just to do the damn smog check or else I can't register my vehicle.  Ridiculous emission standards here.  I'll be damn if I ever buy a hybrid or electric girly car though so all these mandates can go to hell. 
laugh.gif
 

"girly car?" See, its all about marketing.

Because emissions standards DO count. 

You can't just apply any modification to you car.

You might as well complain about tinting standards too, but you won't. 

Yeah you expect a grown man like me take a girl out in one of these? 
roll.gif


electric_car_charging.jpg

I have gotten tickets for illegal tint but I got boys who are in Law Enforcement.  
pimp.gif

Guess what buddy.. after I pass the smog test, the cold air intake gets re-installed.  Thousands of other car enthusiasts who enjoy modifying their vehicles are doing the same damn thing or doing other various illegal smog testing to go around these dumb standards. 
So you would rather look fly for a piece of tail than save the lungs and health of untold millions of people who live in concentrated areas?
The arrogance is bewildering. 

If a girl won't give you attention only because of your car, you're already losing. And I don't care what anyone tells you.





Originally Posted by ninjahood

And these greenies still ain't answer da question on how they plan

On makin ppl buy these cars when da overwhelming majority of da public

Is uninterested
Advertising that isn't influenced by oil companies to limit the advancement of technology in alternative fields.

Why aren't you admitting to the fact that there is a massive wall built up to prevent outsiders from getting in the market?

...ya think GM can keep CRANKING out volts and make a profit

If there's no demand?

Of course not.
I also didn't think Whole Foods would make a market out of selling free range chicken, but look how they've done.

Lol they'll bankrupt themselves...with expensive cars like

This if they aren't sellin enuff #s they'll lose money & resources

Thank you for the rather in-depth financial analysis.... Again. 
eyes.gif

I guess you have no understanding of credit or how macro-economics works.

Stop acting like you really care about their money and resources. If you did, you'd joint the movement to aid the campaign for alternative energy and investments to make advancements in the field.

You only care about yourself and that your family-jewels feel the vibration of a gas V8 guzzler while you're idling at stop-lights in bumper-to-bumper traffic. 

They can use on building stuff that DOES SELL...money talks *%$@%$#% walks


Where were you before they realized they could make gasoline out of corn?

Where were you when they realized they could make oil from methanobacteria (methane producing microbes) into biodiesel/gasoline? 

None of these advances existed a few decades ago.

Imagine if we did the same for electricity, or hydrogen?

Again, for someone worried about the pockets of independent businesses, you have no problem defending an even larger system that rapes you everytime you step out doors. 

Talk about "enslaved" minds... 
eyes.gif


You love to sprout arguments about "cost" but don't realize that you're paying more now at the pump, adjusting for inflation and allocation, than you have in history, and you still don't care.

I hope that in 50 years when more cars are on the road that are far more efficient than they are now, that they prevent you from buying one because of how you chose to act today. Don't run up on them when its too late and try to hop on the bandwagon.

You're acting like a record label executive in 1999 right before Sean Parker logged on to the internet with something called Napster.

You don't deserve to enjoy any of advances in the sciences because you don't appreciate the ones you currently make use of.




You're incredibly selfish and remarkably ungrateful for those that have even allowed you to  be able to breath the air cleaner you breathe and drink the clean water you drink, work the better hours you work, enjoy the healthier foods you eat, or have stronger immune systems than you've ever had. 




The world isn't perfect but don't stop us from trying to get there. 
 
Alot of cats in here got their business degrees on Craigslist...
laugh.gif


"If we build it they will come"
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by sillyputty





Originally Posted by ninjahood

And these greenies still ain't answer da question on how they plan

On makin ppl buy these cars when da overwhelming majority of da public

Is uninterested
Advertising that isn't influenced by oil companies to limit the advancement of technology in alternative fields.

Why aren't you admitting to the fact that there is a massive wall built up to prevent outsiders from getting in the market?

...ya think GM can keep CRANKING out volts and make a profit

If there's no demand?
I also didn't think Whole Foods would make a market out of selling free range chicken, but look how they've done.

Lol they'll bankrupt themselves...with expensive cars like

This if they aren't sellin enuff #s they'll lose money & resources

Thank you for the rather in-depth financial analysis.... Again. 
eyes.gif

I guess you have no understanding of credit or how macro-economics works.

Stop acting like you really care about their money and resources. If you did, you'd joint the movement to aid the campaign for alternative energy and investments to make advancements in the field.

You only care about yourself and that your family-jewels feel the vibration of a gas V8 guzzler while you're idling at stop-lights in bumper-to-bumper traffic. 

They can use on building stuff that DOES SELL...money talks *%$@%$#% walks


Where were you before they realized they could make gasoline out of corn?

Where were you when they realized they could make oil from methanobacteria (methane producing microbes) into biodiesel/gasoline? 

None of these advances existed a few decades ago.

Imagine if we did the same for electricity, or hydrogen?

Again, for someone worried about the pockets of independent businesses, you have no problem defending an even larger system that rapes you everytime you step out doors. 

Talk about "enslaved" minds... 
eyes.gif


You love to sprout arguments about "cost" but don't realize that you're paying more now at the pump, adjusting for inflation and allocation, than you have in history, and you still don't care.

I hope that in 50 years when more cars are on the road that are far more efficient than they are now, that they prevent you from buying one because of how you chose to act today. Don't run up on them when its too late and try to hop on the bandwagon.

You're acting like a record label executive in 1999 right before Sean Parker logged on to the internet with something called Napster.

You don't deserve to enjoy any of advances in the sciences because you don't appreciate the ones you currently make use of.




You're incredibly selfish and remarkably ungrateful for those that have even allowed you to  be able to breath the air cleaner you breathe and drink the clean water you drink, work the better hours you work, enjoy the healthier foods you eat, or have stronger immune systems than you've ever had. 




The world isn't perfect but don't stop us from trying to get there. 

Once again, I have no problem with progress.  But there's a difference between public funding for technological development when you have money and when you don't.  The problem that California has had for the past 15 years is that we want to fund EVERYTHING.  Then when we run out of money, they say "We don't have enough money for your pet project.  Give us more".  Then the money goes into a black hole.  Most taxes in the state have been passed with the promise that they will go for one thing and then they go towards something completely different.  Case in point... Gas taxes were supposed to go to repair roads and most of them ended up going towards other unrelated programs.

And gas may be the highest in 20 years, but far from the high adjusted for inflation.
fotw364.jpg
 
Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by sillyputty

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE


Exactly!  I live in CA and my mechanic has to uninstall the TRD cold air intake in my truck and install the stock one just to do the damn smog check or else I can't register my vehicle.  Ridiculous emission standards here.  I'll be damn if I ever buy a hybrid or electric girly car though so all these mandates can go to hell. 
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"girly car?" See, its all about marketing.

Because emissions standards DO count. 

You can't just apply any modification to you car.

You might as well complain about tinting standards too, but you won't. 

Yeah you expect a grown man like me take a girl out in one of these? 
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I have gotten tickets for illegal tint but I got boys who are in Law Enforcement.  
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Guess what buddy.. after I pass the smog test, the cold air intake gets re-installed.  Thousands of other car enthusiasts who enjoy modifying their vehicles are doing the same damn thing or doing other various illegal smog testing to go around these dumb standards. 
Tell me you won't take them out in one of these:
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or this:

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Originally Posted by sillyputty

Why aren't you admitting to the fact that there is a massive wall built up to prevent outsiders from getting in the market?
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[h2][/h2]
[h2]Big bet on tiny cars a bust[/h2]
For politicians betting on electric vehicles to drive job growth, the view from inside Think City's plant here is their worst nightmare...

By Julie Wernau

Chicago Tribune







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ELKHART, Ind. — For politicians betting on electric vehicles to drive job growth, the view from inside Think City's plant here is their worst nightmare: 100 unfinished vehicles lined up with no word whether they will be completed.

Only two years ago the tiny Think cars — two can fit in a regular parking space — were expected to bring more than 400 jobs to this ailing city and act as a lifeline to suppliers who once made parts for gas-guzzling recreational vehicles.

"We've said we're out to make Indiana the electric-vehicle state. It's beginning to look like the state capital will be Elkhart County," Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels said in January 2010 in announcing government incentives used to lure Think to his state.

Instead, the Hoosier state's big bet has been a bust. The plant is devoid of activity; there are just two employees. A Russian investor who recently purchased Think's bankrupt parent in Norway has been silent about its future. A government-backed Indianapolis battery maker that was to supply Think wrote off a $73 million investment in the car company and on Thursday declared bankruptcy. Two unrelated electric-truck makers Indiana planned to nurture have yet to get off the ground.

Indiana's foray into electric vehicles is a cautionary tale for states in hot pursuit of high-tech manufacturing jobs. Think's story illustrates how politicians wanted to stimulate job growth so badly that they showered it and the battery supplier with tax breaks and incentives while at the same time failing to determine whether there was a market for the car: a plastic two-seater with a top speed of about 65 miles an hour and a price tag approaching $42,000.

"Where's the value?" Gregg Fore, an Elkhart recreational-vehicle-industry executive, said of Think. "I could buy a golf cart for five grand if that's what I wanted to drive."

Fore says the federal and state governments as well as Elkhart subsidized the Think project apparently believing those breaks would drive down the vehicle's price and make the cars more attractive. "By giving money to the battery company and electric-car company, they are saying, 'We want you to buy their products even though we know you don't want them.' "

Indiana's total losses aren't immediately known. Katelyn Hancock, a spokeswoman for the Indiana Economic Development Corp., the state's economic-development arm, declined to disclose how much battery maker Ener1 and Think had received in taxpayer-funded credits and incentives, claiming such information is confidential.

Ener1 also refused to provide the information.

What is known, however, is that both the Obama and Bush administrations poured millions of dollars into battery production in a quest to power thousands of Think City vehicles with lithium-ion batteries. To date, Ener1, parent of the battery company, has spent $55 million in federal funding, according to the U.S. Department of Energy.

In hindsight, some analysts say government backing of the car didn't seem like a bad investment. "It looked like electric vehicles were it in 2008. It really did," said Theodore O'Neill, an analyst who has followed the electric-car industry. "You had the government calling the shots and doling the money out with the major (automakers)."

Costly vehicle

Still, O'Neill says he wouldn't buy such a car. "For $40,000, you can get a certified pre-owned BMW convertible and a Vespa scooter. Both of them. And if you want to have a good time, put the top down." General Motors' Chevrolet Volt electric car also comes for about the same price.

Think City's plant, a 10-minute drive from Elkhart's Main Street, appears all but abandoned these days. When a reporter visited recently, the parking lot was empty and the visitor entrance and lobby were laced with cobwebs. A single pickup and a sign telling visitors to ring the buzzer were the only signs of life near the rear of the building. Inside two men were quietly baby-sitting the plant, awaiting headlights and seat belts from Europe so the cars would meet U.S. standards.

What eventually happens to these cars isn't clear. No one in Elkhart could point to a local executive in charge of production. A person identified as a spokesman declined to comment, saying he was no longer on the payroll.

The person who may have the most to say about Think's future also isn't talking. Russian investor Boris Zingarevich bought Think Global, the Norwegian parent company, at auction a month after its bankruptcy.

Reached by phone in Russia, Slava Bychkov, a spokesman for Ilim Group, said he could not provide details of the car company's future.

"The management is now under the restart process and will communicate their strategy in (the) near future," Bychkov said.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2017386709_thinkcarblues01.html

NO ONE WANTS THEM PERIOD....as long as gas is cheaper and practical, electric cars will ALWAYS be a bust...dont act like electric cars haven't been out for almost 100 years already silly putty,

its look desperate
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Originally Posted by ninjahood

NO ONE WANTS THEM PERIOD....as long as gas is cheaper and practical, electric cars will ALWAYS be a bust...dont act like electric cars haven't been out for almost 100 years already silly putty,

its look desperate
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That's not true.. My Mom owns a Honda Civic GX.. (not an Electric car) It's runs only Clean natural gas and only cost 2 bucks a gallon. Plus she got help from the state by purchasing a CNG vehicle. The costs of these will Vehicles eventually go down..


THIS IS A GOOD THING.. Do you not care about the enviorment and the risk Global Warming puts on us? (By da way Global Warming is Real)

     
 
Originally Posted by Enchanted1

Originally Posted by ninjahood

NO ONE WANTS THEM PERIOD....as long as gas is cheaper and practical, electric cars will ALWAYS be a bust...dont act like electric cars haven't been out for almost 100 years already silly putty,

its look desperate
laugh.gif
30t6p3b.gif
That's not true.. My Mom owns a Honda Civic GX.. (not an Electric car) It's runs only Clean natural gas and only cost 2 bucks a gallon. Plus she got help from the state by purchasing a CNG vehicle. The costs of these will Vehicles eventually go down..


THIS IS A GOOD THING.. Do you not care about the enviorment and the risk Global Warming puts on us? (By da way Global Warming is Real)

     
electric cars =/= compressed natural gas cars...

and da price of these electric vehicles wont go down when  people still rather drive cheaper and more practical gas engine cars.

electric cars been around since da early 1900's....there's a REASON they never caught on folks....silly putty just gonna have to swallow da facts.
a plastic two-seater with a top speed of about 65 miles an hour and a price tag approaching $42,000.
"Where's the value?" Gregg Fore, an Elkhart recreational-vehicle-industry executive, said of Think. "I could buy a golf cart for five grand if that's what I wanted to drive."


 
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