As a black atheist, I like to address questions of why African Americans are so religious

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Dame Theory wrote:

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Patrick Bateman wrote:

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Dame Theory wrote:

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[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)][/color]
None of this shows why one should believe in God though.



For you to believe in the divine would indicate that others might be able to do so as well. If others can do so, why should they believe in the divine?



Up to now, our understanding of God has been ALL in the explanation of man. Thats it. Nothing other than the word of man has been of God. So where does God lie?  It seems like a cop-out to resort it to something that you can't investigate. 

Dame Theory wrote:

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Patrick Bateman wrote:

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That doesn't make it more right though. The concept of God and the realm of God and powers of God have been debunked and relegated to smaller domains as time goes on. 

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Go back to where I said I don't ##*! with religion and God is inconceivable, no man nor religion can explain the creator. But I guess that's a "cop-out."[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]I'm done.[/color]

Ok, lets make this simple.
What reason do you have to believe in a "creator" ?

What religion were you raised, if any?

Also, what religion do you reject, if any?

Do you pray? What god do you pray to?

My point is that no matter if you say you're religious or not...the fact that you claim God is a creator... indicates that your understandin of God came from a religion. Religions teach that God was the ultimate creator. If a religion wanted us to say that God only was responsible for the tides and lobster tails, then that would be a different notion of God. That in fact means you are still religious even when you don't think you are. 

BTW, it is a cop-out. If you choose to ignore explaining something because you choose to opt for "it can never be explained or even investigated." It is a cop-out to it ever possibly being true or verified. 

 

[dame theory]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

Dame Theory wrote:

---

Patrick Bateman wrote:

---

Dame Theory wrote:

---

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)][/color]
None of this shows why one should believe in God though.



For you to believe in the divine would indicate that others might be able to do so as well. If others can do so, why should they believe in the divine?



Up to now, our understanding of God has been ALL in the explanation of man. Thats it. Nothing other than the word of man has been of God. So where does God lie?  It seems like a cop-out to resort it to something that you can't investigate. 

Dame Theory wrote:

---

Patrick Bateman wrote:

---

That doesn't make it more right though. The concept of God and the realm of God and powers of God have been debunked and relegated to smaller domains as time goes on. 

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Go back to where I said I don't ##*! with religion and God is inconceivable, no man nor religion can explain the creator. But I guess that's a "cop-out."[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]I'm done.[/color]

Ok, lets make this simple.
What reason do you have to believe in a "creator" ?

What religion were you raised, if any?

Also, what religion do you reject, if any?

Do you pray? What god do you pray to?

My point is that no matter if you say you're religious or not...the fact that you claim God is a creator... indicates that your understandin of God came from a religion. Religions teach that God was the ultimate creator. If a religion wanted us to say that God only was responsible for the tides and lobster tails, then that would be a different notion of God. That in fact means you are still religious even when you don't think you are. 

BTW, it is a cop-out. If you choose to ignore explaining something because you choose to opt for "it can never be explained or even investigated." It is a cop-out to it ever possibly being true or verified. 

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Why do people make Higher power/The Creator/God/Supreme being/ Grand Architect of the Universe etc synonymous with RELIGION?[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]I believe in something greater than us all, but when it comes to religion, I couldn't care less.[/color]

If God is inconceivable, how are you able to conceive that God is [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]"something greater than us all?"[/color]

Furthermore, where did you get the concept that God is "[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]something greater than us all?"[/color]

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]Why do people make Higher power/The Creator/God/Supreme being/ Grand Architect of the Universe etc synonymous with RELIGION?[/color]

[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]I believe in something greater than us all, but when it comes to religion, I couldn't care less.[/color]

If God is inconceivable, how are you able to conceive that God is [color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]"something greater than us all?"[/color]

Furthermore, where did you get the concept that God is "[color= rgb(255, 0, 0)]something greater than us all?"[/color]

 

[dame theory]

From Reddit:

It is generally common for atheists to consider that the arguments against religion boil down to science, the facts, debate, etc. It puzzles many why someone when faced with all the evidence for evolution for example would still choose to ignore it. I think that many atheists are ignoring the REAL issue, the true reason why it is hard for someone to reject their religion.




I was raised Christian all my life, in a VERY fundamentalist home. I was taught the earth was 6,000 years old created out of nothing, heaven, hell - the whole thing. I was taught how important it was to witness and attempt to "convert" others. I was taught that even bad things, really bad things, had some sort of divine reason and plan attached to them. I believed this into my early twenties.




When I was finally faced with the irrefutable facts, and raw science behind them, I let go - very reluctantly - of my cherished beliefs. It was not easy, It was like wrestling a priceless gem from someone who would just not let go of it.




When you reject religion, its not like - rejecting the earth is not flat for example. With something like this you can say "Oh ok, now I know" - but religion has a much darker and deep rooted hold on a person, and a much more profound effect.




There were times I was actually in tears thinking about the fact that there was no "afterlife" - and that those I had loved who had died - were really dead. They weren't watching me, or having some hand in guiding me. They didn't still "love me". That was pretty depressing.




It is strange how religion gives you a way to reject the reality of death - which I guess does help to 'ease your suffering', that you "know they went to a better place" - but it also prevents proper mourning. When someone you love dies, and they tell you on their death bed that they will see you one day in heaven, you are more prepared for them to "die" because you know they aren't really "dead".




To reject heaven and accept atheism - is not merely about science, facts, beliefs, etc - it is about accepting the reality of all those who have died - being really dead. It is accepting the same reality about everyone you love NOW one day being - really dead. It is accepting the same reality about YOU one day.

The older you are, the more dear loved ones have passed away, the harder it will be to reject the notions of religion. To reject religion requires the re-mourning of everyone who you love who has died.




Death is just one piece of a very complex puzzle. If you have spent your whole life "living by faith" - and you have made decisions "by faith" that have resulted in really bad situations in your life, you now have to own up to the fact that these situations came about because of YOUR choices. You do not have God to take the burden of this. You can no longer say "This happened because God has some plan for my life"




By rejecting religion, you must also reject the notion that you can avoid responsibility for poor life situations. That too is a hard pill to swallow.

Next, you must reject the idea that your path is somehow guided, that God is walking with you, that you are not truly alone as you walk through life.




Imagine a man walking through a room on planks of wood suspended over spikes with large holes to fall in if you take a wrong step. He always manages to take the right next step, but he is never afraid because he "knows" that this is a solid wood floor he is walking on. Now turn on the lights.




To reject religion means to accept the idea that you CAN fall - and fall HARD. It means you have to recognize that up until now you have been fortunate - but now you have to force yourself to think about your next steps.




If you have been spending your life "following Christ", or witnessing to people, to the extent of even studying this in college, or spending hundreds and hundreds of hours reading and studying the Bible, praying, etc - only to find out that ALL of it was utterly and totally useless, then you have another hard pill to swallow. Imagine swallowing that pill as an older person.




To accept this means to accept that you have lived a large part of your life in vain, while thinking it was purposeful. Talking to such a person about atheism is similar to telling them that their whole life is without purpose, misguided, and that they have missed out on the only opportunity they will ever have to live life.




Surely one can then see why the concept of atheism is offensive and infuriating to so many people.




Then there is the concept of a personal relationship with God. The idea that God and you are "friends". That you are somehow "above the world". That you are living in a bubble safe and protected by God himself.




To reject religion, means accepting that you are just like everyone else - and in fact, worse off than most and behind the race because of your past religious belief. To someone who has spent a lifetime believing they are special in this regard, a piece of them is gone, never to return.




Worse than this, such a person values their imaginary relationship with God more than any aspect of their REAL personality. Who you really are takes second stage to your supposed relationship with the almighty.




Rejecting this is surely very difficult, as it entails rejecting a large part of the perceived value someone has in themselves.




I know I have not covered it all, but I hope I have helped to show that there is more to the picture of "religion vs atheism" than merely science, and facts.




The emotional side of religion is by far a larger and darker obstacle than any other that would stand in the way between someone's freedom from delusion and accepting reality.

 

[dame theory]

From Reddit:

It is generally common for atheists to consider that the arguments against religion boil down to science, the facts, debate, etc. It puzzles many why someone when faced with all the evidence for evolution for example would still choose to ignore it. I think that many atheists are ignoring the REAL issue, the true reason why it is hard for someone to reject their religion.




I was raised Christian all my life, in a VERY fundamentalist home. I was taught the earth was 6,000 years old created out of nothing, heaven, hell - the whole thing. I was taught how important it was to witness and attempt to "convert" others. I was taught that even bad things, really bad things, had some sort of divine reason and plan attached to them. I believed this into my early twenties.




When I was finally faced with the irrefutable facts, and raw science behind them, I let go - very reluctantly - of my cherished beliefs. It was not easy, It was like wrestling a priceless gem from someone who would just not let go of it.




When you reject religion, its not like - rejecting the earth is not flat for example. With something like this you can say "Oh ok, now I know" - but religion has a much darker and deep rooted hold on a person, and a much more profound effect.




There were times I was actually in tears thinking about the fact that there was no "afterlife" - and that those I had loved who had died - were really dead. They weren't watching me, or having some hand in guiding me. They didn't still "love me". That was pretty depressing.




It is strange how religion gives you a way to reject the reality of death - which I guess does help to 'ease your suffering', that you "know they went to a better place" - but it also prevents proper mourning. When someone you love dies, and they tell you on their death bed that they will see you one day in heaven, you are more prepared for them to "die" because you know they aren't really "dead".




To reject heaven and accept atheism - is not merely about science, facts, beliefs, etc - it is about accepting the reality of all those who have died - being really dead. It is accepting the same reality about everyone you love NOW one day being - really dead. It is accepting the same reality about YOU one day.

The older you are, the more dear loved ones have passed away, the harder it will be to reject the notions of religion. To reject religion requires the re-mourning of everyone who you love who has died.




Death is just one piece of a very complex puzzle. If you have spent your whole life "living by faith" - and you have made decisions "by faith" that have resulted in really bad situations in your life, you now have to own up to the fact that these situations came about because of YOUR choices. You do not have God to take the burden of this. You can no longer say "This happened because God has some plan for my life"




By rejecting religion, you must also reject the notion that you can avoid responsibility for poor life situations. That too is a hard pill to swallow.

Next, you must reject the idea that your path is somehow guided, that God is walking with you, that you are not truly alone as you walk through life.




Imagine a man walking through a room on planks of wood suspended over spikes with large holes to fall in if you take a wrong step. He always manages to take the right next step, but he is never afraid because he "knows" that this is a solid wood floor he is walking on. Now turn on the lights.




To reject religion means to accept the idea that you CAN fall - and fall HARD. It means you have to recognize that up until now you have been fortunate - but now you have to force yourself to think about your next steps.




If you have been spending your life "following Christ", or witnessing to people, to the extent of even studying this in college, or spending hundreds and hundreds of hours reading and studying the Bible, praying, etc - only to find out that ALL of it was utterly and totally useless, then you have another hard pill to swallow. Imagine swallowing that pill as an older person.




To accept this means to accept that you have lived a large part of your life in vain, while thinking it was purposeful. Talking to such a person about atheism is similar to telling them that their whole life is without purpose, misguided, and that they have missed out on the only opportunity they will ever have to live life.




Surely one can then see why the concept of atheism is offensive and infuriating to so many people.




Then there is the concept of a personal relationship with God. The idea that God and you are "friends". That you are somehow "above the world". That you are living in a bubble safe and protected by God himself.




To reject religion, means accepting that you are just like everyone else - and in fact, worse off than most and behind the race because of your past religious belief. To someone who has spent a lifetime believing they are special in this regard, a piece of them is gone, never to return.




Worse than this, such a person values their imaginary relationship with God more than any aspect of their REAL personality. Who you really are takes second stage to your supposed relationship with the almighty.




Rejecting this is surely very difficult, as it entails rejecting a large part of the perceived value someone has in themselves.




I know I have not covered it all, but I hope I have helped to show that there is more to the picture of "religion vs atheism" than merely science, and facts.




The emotional side of religion is by far a larger and darker obstacle than any other that would stand in the way between someone's freedom from delusion and accepting reality.

 

[imthekang]

posting for reading later..

 

[imthekang]

posting for reading later..

 

[imasoleman18]

just wondering is there a difference between white atheist's and black atheists? 

maybe even mexican atheists!

 

[imasoleman18]

just wondering is there a difference between white atheist's and black atheists? 

maybe even mexican atheists!

 

[james earl zones]

I never understood why black people accept Christianity. Massa still got _'s minds in the palm of his hand.

 

[james earl zones]

I never understood why black people accept Christianity. Massa still got _'s minds in the palm of his hand.

 

[MaxP_3]

A lot of black people accept Christianity because that is what they were raised to believe. Just like there are certain groups raised to hate others, its just in their upbringing. You really can't knock a person's upbringings or beliefs.

 

[MaxP_3]

A lot of black people accept Christianity because that is what they were raised to believe. Just like there are certain groups raised to hate others, its just in their upbringing. You really can't knock a person's upbringings or beliefs.

 

[chiefwiggum]

Most idiotic threads ever. As you mature you realize things like politics and religion are personal matters and should seldom be discussed.

 

[chiefwiggum]

Most idiotic threads ever. As you mature you realize things like politics and religion are personal matters and should seldom be discussed.

 

[salviboy7]

OP, how do magnets work ?

 

[salviboy7]

OP, how do magnets work ?

 

[bostonthreeparty]

my only reason why African Americans are so religious was that during the slave trade and the "age" of slavery in American and the Surrounding areas where blacks were slaves, that was probably the only thing they were able to grip onto, to find some sanity or release in their lives, and their prayer would be a hope that if there was some higher power to set his/her family/friends free from plantation owners, and to be able to live lives as regular citizens of the country or colony the were enslaved in.

As for why it has been passed on for ever and ever, must have to be the only real major increase in atheists, or just louder small group of people just really being able to voice their opinions in society with out being suppressed or being deemed, 'possessed' by a priest/pastor, and being treated the appropriate way to rid that idea early.

just my 2 cents

 

[bostonthreeparty]

my only reason why African Americans are so religious was that during the slave trade and the "age" of slavery in American and the Surrounding areas where blacks were slaves, that was probably the only thing they were able to grip onto, to find some sanity or release in their lives, and their prayer would be a hope that if there was some higher power to set his/her family/friends free from plantation owners, and to be able to live lives as regular citizens of the country or colony the were enslaved in.

As for why it has been passed on for ever and ever, must have to be the only real major increase in atheists, or just louder small group of people just really being able to voice their opinions in society with out being suppressed or being deemed, 'possessed' by a priest/pastor, and being treated the appropriate way to rid that idea early.

just my 2 cents

 

[devildog1776]

slavery

 

[devildog1776]

slavery

 

[thizzle wigle]

yours and most peoples problem is thinking of god as a person with thoughts and feelings and %$%* god is god not some really powerful dude

 

[thizzle wigle]

yours and most peoples problem is thinking of god as a person with thoughts and feelings and %$%* god is god not some really powerful dude

 

[dathbgboy]

Originally Posted by ChiefWiggum

Most idiotic threads ever. As you mature you realize things like politics and religion are personal matters and should seldom be discussed.

So maybe dude aint mature yet.  Funny thing is he bashes ppl for religion and their beliefs but he is tryna convince us to BELIEVE him, then he won't bash us right? f outta here bro, go back to ur hole.