Anyone Watch Obama Explain His Healthcare Bill?

[gtek]

Originally Posted by DearWinter219

At the end of the day, threads like this were inevitable. Dude's been in office less than one full year, and all of a sudden 300 years worth of *%%%%$@# stacked on top of more *%%%%$@# is supposed to just disappear? I spy scapegoating at it's finest. But it's cool... I get it. !!%* finally hit the fan and it looks like this grand ole USA ship might actually be sinking for real. @!$% it then... let's make a Black man Captain for once. At least that way, he'll be the one to go down with the ship. I see how this game is...

This madness made a little bit of sense.

End it all with a black man at president...or have new one come clean things up and then blame it all on the black one.
Pure Genius.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by Craftsy21

Originally Posted by crcballer55

A purely capitalist system would work. A purely socialist system would work. A hybrid of the two has been a total disaster. Equally true will be telling everyone that "only the rich will pay" and "no taxes will be raised on the middle class". With each successive attempt to wring money from someone else has caused everyone to be soaked at some point. Rather than allowing each person to pay for what he needs, we have tried to gradually take from everyone but ourselves over the past 70 years and have since begun an economic slide that will result/has resulted in our bankruptcy.

Wow... well put man. Long time no see, too. Not sure if you use a different name now or what.

I agree though - I think the ONLY thing people have against the "socialist" system is the world "socialism"... it has been made into such an evil word by the hard rights, you can't attach it to anything without people immediately thinking it's evil and the end of our country as we know it.

Medicare works pretty darn efficiently, especially considering it deals with the most expensive patients (65+ people) in our country... why wouldn't a similar system (with an option for private healthcare places to still exist for those wanting to pay extra) work for all ages? I mean seriously, can anybody tell me why?

Because the private end of the spectrum is horribly skewed.

Private insurances, pharmaceutical companies and medical supply firm are running government subsidizes rackets that are throwing the whole industry out ofwack.

Medicare/Medicaid is very effective and the recent push to combine HMO policies with MCR/MCD has been the best thing to happen to the industry in years butthere is waaaayy too much inefficiency and corruption inherent to the system right now.

Hospitals are overcharging to make ends meet due to shady insurances and the stifling of fair competition for drugs and medical products...causing Medicare tohave to pay those same trumped up charges. On a 150K inpatient stay, Aetna is paying 8 - 20K, while Medicare might pay double that. The government is playingfair....private corps are playing dirty as hell. The budget can't handle that. The Baby Boomers are going to bring the Treasury to its knees.

Change definitely needs to come and to come quick. Healthcare is in far worse shape than the banking industry ever was...Obama has a hell of a battle on hishands.

 

[babyjordan0312]

Canada > USA with regards to Health Care.

Don't believe all the crap you hear.

In Vancouver, Canada. We get better Health Care than any US City I have ever been to.

And guess what, If you have $$$, then you do have an option to go for a private test/CT scan or whatever it is you need.

The basic point of our health care

"Treat everyone equal regardless of economic class and to give everyone at least a chance"

In the US. You can find yourself +#!# out of luck with some of the worst health care I have seen in the world for their poor underprivileged class.

 

[kix4kix]

Obama didn't run on his health care plan. If the US cared about health care they would have voted hilary in there......I won't even comment on thespeech.

 

[kanyewestjayz4life]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

A purely socialist system would work

No, it wouldnt. Socialism only works as long as they dont run out of other peoples money.

Again, France the number 1 ranked health care system in the world. Their health care is government controlled.


Those WHO rankings are totally flawed. France has NO WHERE near the population and massive immigration we do. Tell me what goes on in France that doesn't happen here? Dude, I've interned in over 10 hospitals and not once have I ever seen ANYONE be denied care, ever. It's a federal law that anyone that goes to a ER gets treated.


On top of it, this so called "plan" would even take into effect until 2013, BUT WE NEED IT NOW!!! PEOPLE ARE DIENG IN THE STREETS OMGZZZ!!!!




So you're one of those who flat out doesn't believe the data thus keeps believing what cannot be supported, which is that our currenthealth care will do. Good to know.

 

[da703trailblaza]

Government Regulation doesn't work. Federal Mandates don't work. When was the last time the government did something right?

 

[utvol23]

Oh yeah Canada's system is great other than the fact that the system is going broke, horrible wait times and lack of physicians because they are leavingnot wanting to work under the current system. Its going stellar

All this talk about you have a public option for health care. In the bill on page 16 for reference they clearly state that whatever program you are in whenNational health care starts, you must remain in that program forever. If your employer cancels the program, then you would default...to the public option,

 

[kix4kix]

If I hear one more person cry socialism I swear.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by da703trailblaza

Government Regulation doesn't work. Federal Mandates don't work. When was the last time the government did something right?

Medicare/Medicaid

The Government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Private enterprise when it comes to health care.

 

[bostonthreeparty]

BabyJordan0312 wrote: And guess what, If you have $$$, then you do have an option to go for a private test/CT scan or whatever it is you need. \


if this massive healthcare plan were to go into effect this would still be true. But If Obama or All Congress or Senate wouldn't put his/her Families onthe plan you think it would be in your best intrest to reject the plan right? but Mr. Barack will just Sweet-talk just like how he go into office to get thispassed. THE Way To Get Out Of A Recession Already Has Be Proven 1)TAX BREAKS 2) SMALL GOVERNMENT And what is Good ole Barack doing? 1) TAXING THE C##P OUT OFTHE RICH 2) MASSIVE GOVERNMENT PROJECTS I HAVE TO ASK BARACK ONE QUESTION. WHAT HAPPENS WHEN EVERY ONE ABOVE 250K A YEAR RUNS LOW? WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TAXNOW?

 

[718stylez]

i have a few questions, no flame.just answer if you can.

Dude, I've interned in over 10 hospitals and not once have I ever seen ANYONE be denied care, ever. It's a federal law that anyone that goes to a ER gets treated.

We already have a free health care system for all. Had a patient today been to the ER 42 times in the past 6 months has accumlated over 2.5 mill dollars in medical bills and hasnt paid a cent.

who ends up paying for this? Fede, i take it you work in medicine, what do you do? any suggestions on how to lower costs?

Medicare/Medicaid is very effective and the recent push to combine HMO policies with MCR/MCD has been the best thing to happen to the industry in years but there is waaaayy too much inefficiency and corruption inherent to the system right now.

Hospitals are overcharging to make ends meet due to shady insurances and the stifling of fair competition for drugs and medical products...causing Medicare to have to pay those same trumped up charges. On a 150K inpatient stay, Aetna is paying 8 - 20K, while Medicare might pay double that. The government is playing fair....private corps are playing dirty as hell. The budget can't handle that. The Baby Boomers are going to bring the Treasury to its knees.
abeautifulhaze, i also take it that you work in medicine?

one thing im not understanding from either parties are what are the 3 most important things that we can do as a country to lower healthcare costs? is that toosimple a question? hopefully we can use this post for educational purposes in addition to our usual partisan bashing

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

A purely socialist system would work

No, it wouldnt. Socialism only works as long as they dont run out of other peoples money.

Again, France the number 1 ranked health care system in the world. Their health care is government controlled.

Those WHO rankings are totally flawed. France has NO WHERE near the population and massive immigration we do. Tell me what goes on in France that doesn't happen here? Dude, I've interned in over 10 hospitals and not once have I ever seen ANYONE be denied care, ever. It's a federal law that anyone that goes to a ER gets treated.


On top of it, this so called "plan" would even take into effect until 2013, BUT WE NEED IT NOW!!! PEOPLE ARE DIENG IN THE STREETS OMGZZZ!!!!




So you're one of those who flat out doesn't believe the data thus keeps believing what cannot be supported, which is that our current health care will do. Good to know.



I don't care what the WHO says. They dont see what I see on daily basis, I live in Miami with a HIGH immigration population. You walk into an ER on a highpeak day and I can guarantee atleast 60% are not from this country and they all get proper treatment. Explain to me why we have Diplomats from ALL OVER THEWORLD to come to the U.S. to get treatment? I mean, if its so great overseas and ours is so terrible, why come here?


Medicare and Medicaid were probably the worst things to ever happen to the health care system. Private insurances dictate prices off of the Medicare'smandates, thus enable the drive up in care. Because of Medicare and Medicaid, the reimbursement doesnt even cover the costs of the supplies to do in mostprocedures.

 

[gtek]

Your country is debating on whether some people can live or die due to cost of medical care.

Lives < Profit.

 

[da703trailblaza]

Originally Posted by abeautifulhaze

Originally Posted by da703trailblaza

Government Regulation doesn't work. Federal Mandates don't work. When was the last time the government did something right?

Medicare/Medicaid

The Government >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Private enterprise when it comes to health care.

Doesn't Medicare/Medicaid overpay for prescription drugs? Either way I don't believe that bureaucrats should decide how much a doctor should bereimbursed. I won't deny something needs to be done. This just isn't it.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by 718stylez

i have a few questions, no flame.just answer if you can.

Dude, I've interned in over 10 hospitals and not once have I ever seen ANYONE be denied care, ever. It's a federal law that anyone that goes to a ER gets treated.

We already have a free health care system for all. Had a patient today been to the ER 42 times in the past 6 months has accumlated over 2.5 mill dollars in medical bills and hasnt paid a cent.

who ends up paying for this? Fede, i take it you work in medicine, what do you do? any suggestions on how to lower costs?





To lower costs is very easy. I'm in physical therapy, I see patients for something as simple as a sprained ankle and they ended up getting all theseexpensive tests done for no reason. What happens is that you have doctors who are scared of being sued, so what do they do? The over utilize diagnostics toprotect themselves, to show "hey, well I did the MRI and it didn't show anything, you cant sue me". I know an orthopedic surgeon who pays 250k ayear in medical malpractice insurance alone, so how is he going to make up for the quarter mill he loses on insurance? He'll drive up the costs for hisservices.

What I would do is limit insurance to "catastrophic insurance" and let the providers to compete with each other. Not only does this lower the cost,it also drives up quality. Reason being, you have doctors that will have flat prices for office visits and wont require expensive diagnostics e.g. MRIs, CTscans, ect because they can go by their actual judgment and examination that they went to school for instead. Also, there are bad doctors out there woh reallydo over utilize because the have those diagnostics on campus and the pocket the money.

TORT REFORM, TORT REFORM, TORT REFORM.

Doesn't Medicare/Medicaid overpay for prescription drugs? Either way I don't believe that bureaucrats should decide how much a doctor should be reimbursed. I won't deny something needs to be done. This just isn't it.


The most certainly do! I advised a patient to get a walker, she ends up getting an electric scooter. I was interested and asked "How much did you pay forthat?" she answered "Oh, Medicare paid for it, I got the bill and it said $4,000", so I called a friend that owns a medical supply store and Iasked him how much he sold his for he told me "$2500". I was speechless.

 

[kanyewestjayz4life]

Explain to me why we have Diplomats from ALL OVER THE WORLD to come to the U.S. to get treatment? I mean, if its so great overseas and ours is so terrible, why come here?
Name me 3 diplomats who did this. No one is claiming U.S doesn't have good treatment available, they just don't have good treatmentavailable to the majority of Americans. The reason these other countries are better ranked us is because they don't have to choose between getting healthcare or being debt free, which is a real life decision for me and a large number of other Americans.

 

[thehealthinspector]

Originally Posted by UTVOL23

We already have a free health care system for all. Had a patient today been to the ER 42 times in the past 6 months has accumlated over 2.5 mill dollars in medical bills and hasnt paid a cent.

Im not going to get into these long discussions about healthcare anymore but Obama's plan is horrendous and would be horrible for healthcare in the US. There is a lot we have to fix but not like this. It will create rationing of care and longer wait times to get procedures etc etc etc.

hasnt paid a cent on 2.5mil worth of care? was it for something preventable? cause if it was, who knows how much a doctors visit would have costed him/herw/o insurance

either way, this person knew what was up

 

[sam206]

Health insurance is a joke a relative of mine had his sliding door open to air out his apartment and his son went onto the balcony and fell threw the crack andfell on his head and he took his son to the hospital and they tell him that he does not have enough coverage. How are you going to tell someone they are goingto do nothing, even though you were paying them every month.

 

[mjd77]

I want to know why costs are going up annually way more than the rate of inflation. That is the root of the problem and I have yet to hear a reason for it.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

Explain to me why we have Diplomats from ALL OVER THE WORLD to come to the U.S. to get treatment? I mean, if its so great overseas and ours is so terrible, why come here?

Name me 3 diplomats who did this. No one is claiming U.S doesn't have good treatment available, they just don't have good treatment available to the majority of Americans. The reason these other countries are better ranked us is because they don't have to choose between getting health care or being debt free, which is a real life decision for me and a large number of other Americans.


Off of the top of my head Canada's parliament member Belinda Stronach recieved breast cancer treatment in California and Silvio Berlusconi receivedtreatment for his prostate cancer.

 

[kanyewestjayz4life]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

Explain to me why we have Diplomats from ALL OVER THE WORLD to come to the U.S. to get treatment? I mean, if its so great overseas and ours is so terrible, why come here?

Name me 3 diplomats who did this. No one is claiming U.S doesn't have good treatment available, they just don't have good treatment available to the majority of Americans. The reason these other countries are better ranked us is because they don't have to choose between getting health care or being debt free, which is a real life decision for me and a large number of other Americans.

Off of the top of my head Canada's parliament member Belinda Stronach recieved breast cancer treatment in California and Silvio Berlusconi received treatment for his prostate cancer.





So because 2 of the thousands of diplomats in the world have come to the U.S for health care, that totally nullfies the 49 million Americanswithout healthcare?

You do know that

Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal
Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html#ixzz0M3DJRrHh


And even worst

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance.

 

[abeautifulhaze]

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Doesn't Medicare/Medicaid overpay for prescription drugs? Either way I don't believe that bureaucrats should decide how much a doctor should be reimbursed. I won't deny something needs to be done. This just isn't it.

The most certainly do! I advised a patient to get a walker, she ends up getting an electric scooter. I was interested and asked "How much did you pay for that?" she answered "Oh, Medicare paid for it, I got the bill and it said $4,000", so I called a friend that owns a medical supply store and I asked him how much he sold his for he told me "$2500". I was speechless.





Thats typical retail markup and profit...what so amazing about that?

You want Medicare to short the retail sector now?

Medicare only overpays because services and products are overpriced...more so than any other sector of the economy today.

Insurances and big pharma are running wild with no reigns. In the same way that the banks have been running wild decades prior...what makes them worse is thatthey are doing this with government (our) money.

What ever solution is agreed upon...the private institutions need to be dealt with. Obama is trying to reign them in by offering a quasi-freemarket solutionand increasing competition, which might work but more bureaucracy has a tendency to stumble over its own feet.

He needs to get tough with the insurance and pharmaceutical industry, pulling subsidy money and re-distibuting it to our medical universities and publicmedical science institutions, which are dying for funding....Thats first off. Without that all of this debate will be fruitless.

Medicare spending has to be stabilized somehow and more competition and choice has to be injected into the system ASAP....thats the tough part. If he can comeup with a viable solution to this...my hats off to him. This is the hardest solution to a domestic situation that an administration has had to come up withsince the New Deal/Great Depression era.

 

[utvol23]

Originally Posted by GTEK

Your country is debating on whether some people can live or die due to cost of medical care.

Lives < Profit.

While in other countries some people die waiting to get a procedure done. No one in the US is denied care or has to wait for care.

 

[fede dpt]

Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

Originally Posted by Fede DPT

Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

Explain to me why we have Diplomats from ALL OVER THE WORLD to come to the U.S. to get treatment? I mean, if its so great overseas and ours is so terrible, why come here?

Name me 3 diplomats who did this. No one is claiming U.S doesn't have good treatment available, they just don't have good treatment available to the majority of Americans. The reason these other countries are better ranked us is because they don't have to choose between getting health care or being debt free, which is a real life decision for me and a large number of other Americans.

Off of the top of my head Canada's parliament member Belinda Stronach recieved breast cancer treatment in California and Silvio Berlusconi received treatment for his prostate cancer.

So because 2 of the thousands of diplomats in the world have come to the U.S for health care, that totally nullfies the 49 million Americans without healthcare?

You do know that

Illness and medical bills caused half of the 1,458,000 personal bankruptcies in 2001, according to a study published by the journal
Read more: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/bankruptcy_study.html#ixzz0M3DJRrHh


And even worst

The study estimates that medical bankruptcies affect about 2 million Americans annually -- counting debtors and their dependents, including about 700,000 children.

Surprisingly, most of those bankrupted by illness had health insurance.

We really going to play this game? You asked me to name diplomats and I did. Canada is so great, right? Why would someone from parliament come here fortreatment if its so great? Same thing goes for Berlusconi?


49 million Americans dont have insurance? Dude, there are 12-15 million ILLEGAL immigrants in this country, so knock off that from the 49 million and a largepopulation of that earns over 70k a year and can afford to buy insurance but CHOOSE not to have it, why? Because they are still young and it doesnt make senseto pay $150-200 a month for a single person who doesnt get sick. I'm 25, I don't have health insurance. I havent seen a doctor in 5 years for beingsick, why would pay $150 a month on something I dont need? I currently make $10k a year because I'm not done with school entirely, but if it so happens Ido get sick I can afford to pay $65 to the the doctor and pay what ever it costs for antibiotics rather than wasting money.

Thats typical retail markup and profit...what so amazing about that?

You want Medicare to short the retail sector now?

Medicare only overpays because services and products are overpriced. more so than any other sector of the economy today.

Insurances and big pharma are running willing with no reigns. In the same way that the banks have been running wild decades prior...what makes them worse is that they are doing this with government (our) money.

What ever solution is agreed upon...the private institutions need to be dealt with. Obama is trying to reign them in by offering a quasi-freemarket solution and increasing competition, which might work but more bureaucracy has a tendency to stumble over its own feet.

He needs to get tough with the insurance and pharmaceutical industry, pulling subsidy money and re-distibuting it to our medical universities and public medical science instituions, which are dying for funding and fostering more competition. Thats first off. Without that all of this debate will e fruitless.

Medicare spending has to be stabilized somehow and more competion and choice have to be injected into the system ASAP....thats the tough part. If he can come up with a viable solution to this...my hats off to him. This is the hardest solution to a domestic situation that an administration has had to come up with since the New Deal/Great Depression era.

Son, that's a $1500 mark up with OTHER PEOPLES MONEY.


Obama is not creating competition, nobody competes with the Gov't. What will happen is that companies will start to drop employees off their benefitsbecause if the Gov't will pay. It will be cheaper to pay the fine rather than paying that much money a for private insurance. With people leaving theprivate insurance company it will drive up the premiums for the people who decide to keep their insurance, but it will drive the premiums so high that theprivate companies wont be able to compete and go out of business. Who competes with Amtrak or USPS? Nobody competes with the Gov't, man.

Fining people who decide not to have insurance, are you kidding me? What country to we live in?

 

[utvol23]

Originally Posted by KanyeWestJayZ4life

Explain to me why we have Diplomats from ALL OVER THE WORLD to come to the U.S. to get treatment? I mean, if its so great overseas and ours is so terrible, why come here?

Name me 3 diplomats who did this. No one is claiming U.S doesn't have good treatment available, they just don't have good treatment available to the majority of Americans. The reason these other countries are better ranked us is because they don't have to choose between getting health care or being debt free, which is a real life decision for me and a large number of other Americans.

Who doesnt have good treatment in the US? I have patients everyday who dont have insurance, are homeless, and they receive the same treatment assomeone who does have insurance. They may not be able to pay for it but they do get the treatment.