Another Religious Thread: If God is All-good, All-powerful, and All-knowing...

[its that dude]

Scenario:

Someone is being robbed at gunpoint. Robber says, "Give me the money or I'll kill you."

There you are standing behind the robber with a gun. You have the power to stop him. He doesn't know you're there. But yet, you choose not to stop therobber. The person being robbed doesn't give up their money. The robbers shoots them and kills them.

Can you really say that you are still a good person after letting that person die, even though you deliberately chose not to save them? I definitely can't.

Can you say you're still good?


So how can a Christian say God is all-good when God has the power to stop evil, but purposely chooses not to stop it?

Furthermore, if you were raised without being taught that God is all-good, would you really say that God is all-good after growing up and seeing the kinds ofthings happen in this world?

 

[agentarenas]

Lets say I shoot you in the face right now.

Boom.


Is God evil for not saving you? Or am I, as a person, at fault for abusing my God given free will and using my free will to kill you?

Just a different perspective people fail to realize IMO.

 

[kix4kix]

Free will is a bunch of BS.

 

[josebronx]

free will


this, plus if you look at it from a christians point of view humanity want meant to live forever in the state earth is in.

Furthermore, if you were raised without being taught that God is all-good, would you really say that God is all-good after growing up and seeing the kinds of things happen in this world?


just depends what teachings you were raised with, so I guess not

 

[its that dude]

He's not evil for not saving me. He's not all good though.

But He's definitely evil for not saving all the blacks who died in the slave trade and under slavery. For the holocaust as well...and a whole mess of otherstuff.


He has the power to do save people. Instead, he lets them die. How can you say God is still all-good?

 

[joe camel smooth]

Honestly it boggles my mind how a well-educated, rational person can believe in a certain religion with strong conviction.

Why that religion? why that interpretation of God? You know if you were born in ancient Greece you'd worship Zeus and Apollo, right? If you were born inAfghanistan, you'd be a Muslim.

What makes your religion any different that these? what makes it "right?" You, just like the believers in these other, "incorrect"religions, probably believe in what you do because you were raised to, told at a young age that it was the truth.

When I was young, I was told Santa Claus was real. But as I got older, I no longer believed it...what proof did I have of this being true? Absolutely none, ofcourse.

Now if you just believe in some higher power or energy or some God-like being or beings, that I can understand better. I would still ask.......what proof doyou have of this? But at least it makes more sense than being a devout believer in Jesus Christ/the teachings of the Bible and rejecting all other iterationsof "God."

 

[shaunhillftw49]

Originally Posted by AgentArenas

Lets say I shoot you in the face right now.

Boom.


Is God evil for not saving you? Or am I, as a person, at fault for abusing my God given free will and using my free will to kill you?

Just a different perspective people fail to realize IMO.

Hence the ten commandments. If God controlled people's actions, they'd be pointless

 

[its that dude]

So you guys still say that god is ALL-GOOD, even thought he lets innocent people die when HE HAS THE POWER to save them.

 

[nash]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

He's not evil for not saving me. He's not all good though.

But He's definitely evil for not saving all the blacks who died in the slave trade and under slavery. For the holocaust as well...and a whole mess of other stuff.


He has the power to do save people. Instead, he lets them die. How can you say God is still all-good?

This just in: God = evil

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Honestly it boggles my mind how a well-educated, rational person can believe in a certain religion with strong conviction.

Why that religion? why that interpretation of God? You know if you were born in ancient Greece you'd worship Zeus and Apollo, right? If you were born in Afghanistan, you'd be a Muslim.

What makes your religion any different that these? what makes it "right?"

Now if you just believe in some higher power or energy or some God-like being or beings, that I can understand better. I would still ask.......what proof do you have of this? But at least it makes more sense than being a devout believer in Jesus Christ/the teachings of the Bible and rejecting all other iterations of "God."

While I certainly do agree with you, I can say the same for one who claims to know there is no God. I also don't get how their only defense is that theburden of proof is on the religion. If a religion doesn't suit you, don't have one.

I am mainly religious through my heritage (Judiasm), but I honestly feel certain practices make me a better person. Religion DOES have practicality, and samegoes vice versa: if the absence of having a religion makes somebody a better person I am all for it.

 

[superantigen]

How about this scenario. If the person being robbed really valued their life, why didn't they just hand over the money.

Why is the life of the potential victim your responsibility as the bystander?


...

 

[put em up]

[Religious People] God doesn't make mistakes, he's got a plan[Religious People]


Even if that mean getting your face blown off by a complete stranger. Makes no sense.

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

So you guys still say that god is ALL-GOOD, even thought he lets innocent people die when HE HAS THE POWER to save them.

What you say of God is written by man.

 

[josebronx]

There would be no plan, no predestination because completely eliminates free will

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

How about this scenario. If the person being robbed really valued their life, why didn't they just hand over the money.

Why is the life of the potential victim your responsibility as the bystander?


...

Let's just say some people are stupid.

I'm not saying its our responsibilty to stop them. I'm asking if you can still say you're a good person, after letting that person die when youcould have saved them.

same question goes for God. How can people say he's all-good when things like this happen.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

So you guys still say that god is ALL-GOOD, even thought he lets innocent people die when HE HAS THE POWER to save them.

What you say of God is written by man.

of course. That's why this is a religious thread, not a theism thread.

Of course it would be really easy for me to steer this into a theism thread though.

 

[galvelocity]

Originally Posted by kix4kix

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Honestly it boggles my mind how a well-educated, rational person can believe in a certain religion with strong conviction.

Why that religion? why that interpretation of God? You know if you were born in ancient Greece you'd worship Zeus and Apollo, right? If you were born in Afghanistan, you'd be a Muslim.

What makes your religion any different that these? what makes it "right?"

Now if you just believe in some higher power or energy or some God-like being or beings, that I can understand better. I would still ask.......what proof do you have of this? But at least it makes more sense than being a devout believer in Jesus Christ/the teachings of the Bible and rejecting all other iterations of "God."

While I certainly do agree with you, I can say the same for one who claims to know there is no God. I also don't get how their only defense is that the burden of proof is on the religion. If a religion doesn't suit you, don't have one.

I am mainly religious through my heritage (Judiasm), but I honestly feel certain practices make me a better person. Religion DOES have practicality, and same goes vice versa: if the absence of having a religion makes somebody a better person I am all for it.

I'm an atheist but I'm 100% for the part of religion that makes people act right. However, a lot of people do great things to the creditof their faith but just as many do terrible things because of their faith.

I also agree with the Buddhist ideal that I think, to my understanding, gives you the set of guidelines that will allow you to live a better life. What Idefinitely don't agree with is pretty much every other religion that says "Do all of these things, half of which are totally implausible intoday's world, or terrible things are going to happen to you and you're a total failure as a person". I don't like the idea of the threatsbeing made like "oooh if you have sex before marriage it's a fictional underground pit of fire and lava for you!"

Why not just encourage being a better person to be a better person as opposed to being a better person so that you don't suffer some horrible fate afteryou die? I'm an atheist and I still consider myself a good person. I don't even believe in an afterlife. I'm just trying to be the best person Ican in this life because I want to be a good person, not because I'm scared, or trying to impress some higher power that may or may not have an enormoustally of all my eff-ups.

Edit: I should probably add that I'm speaking of ORGANIZED religion here. Faith in a higher power doesn't necessarilyinclude that fear of God and whatever threats he/she/it makes. I have complete respect for anyone who has the kind of blind faith it takes to be religious, soI don't mean any offense

 

[Master Zik]

I've thought of a similar scenario. The religious ppl on here probably won't be able to explain it good enough or if they do it'll be overlooked bythe arguments soon to come.

I always questioned the All-good part which I find to be false or incomplete so to speak. If he's really all-good and all-knowing and all-powerful youcould speculate he'd never put the robber in the position to seek a life of crime in the first place but then there's that whole GOD choosing not tointerfere with free will since watching us would be pointless(seeing as he already knew you'd do it).

You can also question what exactly goodness is but that's an in depth philosophical argument. Everything isn't black and white, there are shades ofgray.

Anyway I think ppl don't want to think of or admit that if GOD is truly perfect it's possible that he is All-good and All-evil. A perfect balance andunison of both which could explain the chaotic order that is life.

 

[put em up]

Well said young lady, well said.

 

[its that dude]

Originally Posted by Oh YoU MaD

I'm expecting a lot of this by the less committed Christians.

and Zik....that all good all evil thing sounds plausible.

 

[oh you mad]

 

[joe camel smooth]

kix- i agree for the most part

only part i have an issue with is the burden of proof part.

not that it's not a valid point, but to me.....this seems religion is the sort of thing you need to provide, if not proof, at least some compellingevidence for.

any of us could write a 'bible' or 'qur'an' or what have you......what solid evidence do we have? all i see are theories and teachings thatstem from writing that, for all we know, is completely fictional. i could start an absurd religion tomorrow and have believers.....look at scientology.

not trying to mock your or anyone else's beliefs.....i was rasied a catholic and have been one for most of my life, so i'm not trying to act likei'm 'above' religion or what have you. just trying to spark discussion.

 

[superantigen]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

Originally Posted by SuperAntigen

How about this scenario. If the person being robbed really valued their life, why didn't they just hand over the money.

Why is the life of the potential victim your responsibility as the bystander?


...

Let's just say some people are stupid.

I'm not saying its our responsibilty to stop them. I'm asking if you can still say you're a good person, after letting that person die when you could have saved them.

same question goes for God. How can people say he's all-good when things like this happen.

If it's not my responsibility to save them, then why should i be held accountable for their demise--especially when they could have very well donesomething to negate their tragic fate.

I don't see why my "good-ness" and/or morality should become the object of scrutiny because I refused to bear someone else'sresponsibilities.

That said, why should God be held accountable for the evil ways of men, when we (men) are very much capable of good, but choose to practice otherwise. Checkthe nature of your fellow man before you decide to question that of God.


...

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Its That Dude

But He's definitely evil for not saving all the blacks who died in the slave trade and under slavery. For the holocaust as well...and a whole mess of other stuff.

He has the power to do save people. Instead, he lets them die. How can you say God is still all-good?

Honestly there's a saying for this or lil story or w/e it's called.

A man asked GOD why did he let evil things happen to the innocent and GOD simply replied "Why did you?"

Those two horrible events in mankind's history you bring up could've been stopped by GOD but it also could've been stopped by ppl as well. All ittakes for evil to prosper is for "good" men to do nothing.

Think about how the world would be if GOD bailed us out every time we were gonna wipe out a good amount of our own kind due to evil intentions or evencuriosity. We'd be babies relying on our Superman to stop us and we'd be incredibly reckless.

Now if you bring up natural disasters I can see where you're coming from a lil more.

 

[galvelocity]

Originally Posted by JOE CAMEL SMOOTH

Honestly it boggles my mind how a well-educated, rational person can believe in a certain religion with strong conviction.

Why that religion? why that interpretation of God? You know if you were born in ancient Greece you'd worship Zeus and Apollo, right? If you were born in Afghanistan, you'd be a Muslim.

What makes your religion any different that these? what makes it "right?" You, just like the believers in these other, "incorrect" religions, probably believe in what you do because you were raised to, told at a young age that it was the truth.

When I was young, I was told Santa Claus was real. But as I got older, I no longer believed it...what proof did I have of this being true? Absolutely none, of course.

Now if you just believe in some higher power or energy or some God-like being or beings, that I can understand better. I would still ask.......what proof do you have of this? But at least it makes more sense than being a devout believer in Jesus Christ/the teachings of the Bible and rejecting all other iterations of "God."

I actually think about this pretty regularly. Considering that most, if not all, religions maintain that only the people of THAT particularreligion will get into heaven, our odds are just BRUTAL. Good thing I cut my losses early so I don't spend my wholelife following a bunch of suspiciously specific rules in the hopes that I hit that 1 in 100 chance that I chose the right rules to follow, only to find that Ichose the wrong religion and will receive no recompense for a lifetime of strict adherence to its protocol.