Another Religious Thread: If God is All-good, All-powerful, and All-knowing...

[b smooth 202]

If god is an actually entity it's not comprehensible for humans to define that entity.

 

[cz7]

Originally Posted by quiickz

Originally Posted by Cz7


I dont think that can be the case, most religions are just fundamentally incompatible, and a belief in God will not equal salvation, but you also have to admit to a host of other supernatural claims and do specific rituals. This is what the holy books say, because YOU want to adopt a all-loving all inclusive philosophy on God doesn't make it true, because it is simply not what he is and he NEVER claims to be in any of his books.

Can you explain what you mean by this?

I was responding to a claim made a guy on page 7, where he said the all religions basically worship the same God. I'm arguing against this claim becausemost of the Holy Books clearly refute this by attributing certain unique characteristics to their God. In christianity God has a cool son who saves the world,Islam rejects that, and so does Judaism. This attribute alone makes the God of the Bible distinctly different from any other God, they can't be the same.You can't argue that all religions have the key the salvation because they all make different claims to that salvation requiring of you very differentbeliefs and rituals and some that in conflict with fundamental beliefs of other religions like the instance I just mentioned with Christianity, islam, andJudaism they simply cannot all be right.

 

[cz7]

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

lobotomybeats:

---

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

When was the last time you credited God for anything?

Why is it that when good things happen, there is no god to credit anything for, but then we put him out there for us to blame when something tragic happens?

"God doesn't exist to me... except when I want to briefly submit to the concept so I can blame him for that tsunami. Once that's all settled and out of the news, I'll go back to saying he doesn't exist... until the next major tragedy."



I think he clearly being sarcastic there and doesn't actually credit God with the tsunami or earthquakes, but is taking a stab at those who say God somehowmakes natural disasters occur.

 

[38816]

---

lobotomybeats:

---

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!


of course free will explains why god "lets" bad things happen...

as long as there is no divine intervention, we have free will....

if a drunk driver hits you walking home, it's not cause god planned it...

it's cause dude had the free will to drink and run you over....

period.

there isn't a higher power "sitting in the clouds" controlling weather and traffic patterns and @$!@...

ya'll don't wanna hear my theory on our creation....

especially since i hear the big bang was created by two membrane-like structures of super-energetic plasma slapping together....

 

[38816]

WHAT PEOPLE HATE TO HEAR, AND ARE AFRAID OF

IS THAT THE UNIVERSE IS INDIFFERENT

 

[violet24]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

In much the same way that God allows evil people to commit evil acts, God allows the earth to reflect the consequences sin has had on creation."the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, butby the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom ofthe children of God." (Romans 8: 19-21)

it's a reflection of sin, just like disease and suffering are.

 

[kix4kix]

Originally Posted by eNPHAN


WHAT PEOPLE HATE TO HEAR, AND ARE AFRAID OF

IS THAT THE UNIVERSE IS INDIFFERENT

I think the opposite is far scarier.

 

[undefinedinc]

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by SunDOOBIE



8 pages of the same recycled arguments. Entertaining stuff. Keep it up!

and another utterly meaningless comment from someone too afraid to voice his opinion.

Afraid to comment on something already spoken about for the hundredth time here on Niketalk? Beyond POINTLESS!

If you don't believe.. more power to you.

If you believe, even more power to you because you have to deal with these antagonizing questions.

Instead of starting a new thread.. .why don't you folks just continue the bickering in these posts?

Re: I want to hear your opinions on this Vol. Not another God thread again...

Re: @#@% you God. vol. hit and run. yes Im mad. come in and hate on GOD!

Re: Why do people say they won't cuss on Sundays?

Re: I need help from religious NTers

Re: Would The World Be A Better Place If Religion Did Not Exist

Re: Pope Benedict XVI': "Ok, God may have made Aliens too in those six days"

Re: Not sayin I don't believe in Christ/God, But I don't think Christianity by itself is doin it for me.

Re: Official Atheist/Non-Believer Appreciation Thread. Vol. Yes we exist

Re: NT, serious question....MUSLIMS celebrating CHRISTMAS, your thoughts?

Re: Jesus and the Story of Horus

Re: Mega Churches.....?

Re: The Official Bible Appreciation Thread Vol. God is my Savior.

Re: A question for all of my fellow nonbelievers... Would you lie?

Re: What'll happen if Jesus Christ came back to earth and proved himeslf?

Re: Anyone else think Church is stupid

Re: Quick Religion question

Re: DISCOVERY/NAT GEO IS AIRING OUT CHRISTIANITY

Re: NT, Angels DO Exist..

Re: Greek Mythology and Modern Western Religions

Re: Pot thought of the day......Will Science Wipe Out Religion?

Re: The Cubana Lust Thread.....Jesus Is Living In Her Butt.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN GOD OR CREATION..

Re: NT: What's Your Religion?


YAWNNNN

Bolded huge for emphasis.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by 23ska909red02

lobotomybeats:

---

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

When was the last time you credited God for anything?

Why is it that when good things happen, there is no god to credit anything for, but then we put him out there for us to blame when something tragic happens?

"God doesn't exist to me... except when I want to briefly submit to the concept so I can blame him for that tsunami. Once that's all settled and out of the news, I'll go back to saying he doesn't exist... until the next major tragedy."

I think he clearly being sarcastic there and doesn't actually credit God with the tsunami or earthquakes, but is taking a stab at those who say God somehow makes natural disasters occur.


yeah I was being sarcastic. Omnipotence doesn't end with things only imposed by others. I don't attribute natural disasters to anything other thannature.... Not the supernatural.

 

[neighb0rh00d]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

If God is omniprescent and omniscient and he is all-knowing....Then He knows your every move, what you are thinking, your choices in the future and the decisions you will take and make in your life. So using this logic, our so-called free will cannot override God's omniscience. Everything we think and do is already known to Him and has been known to him for all eternity past. So let's say then that you believe in the power of prayer...What is prayer supposed to change really?You will pray if God already knows you will and you won't do it if he already knows you won't. He's known forever whether or not you'll repent. You can't change that. The decision is not yours to make, because using the logic that God is omniprescent and all-knowing, then the prophecy overrides everything unless the Bible, and therefore God, is wrong. Do we really have the free will as God's follower suggest we do?Let me give an analogy to compare this to...It is like a skilled magician asking someone to choose a card from a stacked deck, at first it appears to be a free choice, but the magician knows the outcome before he even offers the deck. Do we really have the free will?

So, then technically, if he does know about our future choices, then we aren't really making choices nor do we have free will, we're just following a predestined plan.

I get what you're saying so imma try my best to respond back.

Now first, God is like the U.S. government.

The government gives us freedom however, if we commit a crime, we get punished.

The ultimate punishment is the death penalty.

Going to jail are the lower punishments.

Now the ultimate crime in this world to God is not believing in him and the ultimate punishment is scorching in flames.

The lower crimes is karma. What goes around, comes around.

Now you believe that we dont really have "freedom" when we actually do.

If we didn't, God would've made all of us into robots to worship us.

He does know the future but he still gives us a choice in life.

Do you think God wants you to go out and murder people or go help people?

Its your choice. You decide what you want to do. God already knows what you'll choose, though.

But in no way is he controlling you. You yourself makes that decision.

If a magician has a deck of cards and says if you choose any hearts, then you get money. If you choose spades, you owe him money.

Now the magician already knows what card you'll choose because he memorized the deck. But you decide which card you want to choose from the deck.

You get it?

 

[darthska]

lobotomybeats:

---

yeah I was being sarcastic. Omnipotence doesn't end with things only imposed by others. I don't attribute natural disasters to anything other than nature.... Not the supernatural.
My fault, then.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by VIOLET24

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

In much the same way that God allows evil people to commit evil acts, God allows the earth to reflect the consequences sin has had on creation. "the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." (Romans 8: 19-21)

it's a reflection of sin, just like disease and suffering are.

Is that you, Mr. Robertson? Get this clown a straight jacket and take away any sharp objects ASAP. Good luck hanging a crucifix on the padded walls and pleasetake it easy on Nurse Ratched.

 

[neighb0rh00d]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by VIOLET24

lobotomybeats wrote:

---

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

In much the same way that God allows evil people to commit evil acts, God allows the earth to reflect the consequences sin has had on creation.
"the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but
by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of
the children of God." (Romans 8: 19-21)




it's a reflection of sin, just like disease and suffering are.

Is that you, Mr. Robertson? Get this clown a straight jacket and take away any sharp objects ASAP. Good luck hanging a crucifix on the padded walls and please take it easy on Nurse Ratched.



? you came back with nothing reasonable so you have no right to talk.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by NEIGHB0RH00D

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by VIOLET24

lobotomybeats wrote:

---

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

In much the same way that God allows evil people to commit evil acts, God allows the earth to reflect the consequences sin has had on creation.
"the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but
by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of
the children of God." (Romans 8: 19-21)




it's a reflection of sin, just like disease and suffering are.

Is that you, Mr. Robertson? Get this clown a straight jacket and take away any sharp objects ASAP. Good luck hanging a crucifix on the padded walls and please take it easy on Nurse Ratched.

? you came back with nothing reasonable so you have no right to talk.

Some replies aren't worth a dignified answer. Claiming that God gives Earth the power to 'reflect the consequences that sin has had on creation' isdamn near insane and is along the same lines as Pat Robertson's dementia-laden mumbling. Disease and suffering are the results of sin????? Even if Ibelieved in god I would consider that insane.

 

[violet24]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Originally Posted by VIOLET24

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Free Will doesn't explain all of the other douche bag things that 'god' does. He did wonders with that earthquake. Bravo god!

In much the same way that God allows evil people to commit evil acts, God allows the earth to reflect the consequences sin has had on creation. "the creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. for the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God." (Romans 8: 19-21)

it's a reflection of sin, just like disease and suffering are.

Is that you, Mr. Robertson? Get this clown a straight jacket and take away any sharp objects ASAP. Good luck hanging a crucifix on the padded walls and please take it easy on Nurse Ratched.

that's how the quote was interpreted to me, and i think it makes sense.

the first page of genesis tells us that the world and all that is in it exists because God desired so. it is not for us to do with as we please.

He also introduces a disruptive element - sin, which is a deliberate violation of what He created. remember when adam and eve rebelled in the garden? God toldadam "cursed is the ground because of you." there's no clearer statement to illustrate human reponsibility in creation, the relationshipbetween human interation and the welfare of the rest of the world.

then there's cain's sin of fracticide, which also affected the earth. "and the Lord said... the voice of your brother's blood is crying tome from the ground. and now you are cursed from the ground that opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand. when you till the ground,it shall no longer yield to you its strength...[sup]"
[/sup]
on the polar opposite of the spectrum, there's the old testament, where God instructs noah to build an ark and save his family and the animals. He tellsnoah to "be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth ... as for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase uponit." noah listens to Him and is blessed. God establishes a covenant with noah and his descendants - he sent rainbow as a sign of it - which is stilluphelp today.

creation reflects/says something about the Creator. romans say that creation is "subjected to futility." i'm sure that a lot of thedestruction that humans are accountable for makes God angry. I think he shows us his wrath to make us aware and repent .. also, i feel like it's reallyonly when tragedies occur that humans are able to transend human-made boundaries and come together. God makes order out of chaos. when order doesn'thappen, it's life without God. so God is good.

it's hard to explain and i don't know God's thoughts. this is just my interpretation of scripture and what i think God's reasons are, so idigress.

and lobotomybeats, don't turn this thread into a personal attack, kthanks. i'm ignoring you from now on.

 

[lobotomybeats]

Jesus dude, does this mean by your definition the Haitians are a-holes? Did they have it coming? Would locusts have been sufficient?

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Jesus dude, does this mean by your definition the Haitians are a-holes? Did they have it coming? Would locusts have been sufficient?

There's passages in all 3 big religions that talk about punishment for your sins through reincarnation. Something like if you sin in this lifeyou'll come back as your own grandson born with some deformity. They even attribute this process of punishment to why some ppl are born blind among otherthings.

So basically it's not they had it coming to them but they're being punished for their sins in a previous life.

 

[cz7]

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Jesus dude, does this mean by your definition the Haitians are a-holes? Did they have it coming? Would locusts have been sufficient?

There's passages in all 3 big religions that talk about punishment for your sins through reincarnation. Something like if you sin in this life you'll come back as your own grandson born with some deformity. They even attribute this process of punishment to why some ppl are born blind among other things.

So basically it's not they had it coming to them but they're being punished for their sins in a previous life.

and you actually believe that?

 

[lobotomybeats]

Oh so Haitians were a-holes in past lives? So when you are reincarnated you are reincarnated with people of the same ilk? Come on! I can't be the only oneloving this! Haha. Any more tales?

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Cz7

Originally Posted by Master Zik

Originally Posted by lobotomybeats

Jesus dude, does this mean by your definition the Haitians are a-holes? Did they have it coming? Would locusts have been sufficient?

There's passages in all 3 big religions that talk about punishment for your sins through reincarnation. Something like if you sin in this life you'll come back as your own grandson born with some deformity. They even attribute this process of punishment to why some ppl are born blind among other things.

So basically it's not they had it coming to them but they're being punished for their sins in a previous life.

and you actually believe that?

What in my post implied I believed such nonsense?

Unlike most ppl I like to educate myself on something I choose not to consider/believe in. He raised a few questions and I answered based on what I've readand hard from multiple religions. I'm not just gonna choose not to believe in something off of hearsay. I'd rather sift through all of the ridiculousthings and decide rather than just some.

I don't believe in it but for ppl that put any type of value in karma it isn't far fetched seeing as it is just another version of it.

Oh so Haitians were a-holes in past lives? So when you are reincarnated you are reincarnated with people of the same ilk? Come on! I can't be the only one loving this! Haha. Any more tales?
You're not always reincarnated in your own family but basically that's what it is

You sin now and GOD punishes you by making you come back to this world withsome horrible ailment or worse.

Reincarnation in Buddhism and Hinduism(a couple other religions too) is the same exact thing (save being reincarnated in the same family part).

 

[torgriffith]

Originally Posted by Hazeleyed Honey

If God is omniprescent and omniscient and he is all-knowing....Then He knows your every move, what you are thinking, your choices in the future and the decisions you will take and make in your life. So using this logic, our so-called free will cannot override God's omniscience. Everything we think and do is already known to Him and has been known to him for all eternity past. So let's say then that you believe in the power of prayer...What is prayer supposed to change really?You will pray if God already knows you will and you won't do it if he already knows you won't. He's known forever whether or not you'll repent. You can't change that. The decision is not yours to make, because using the logic that God is omniprescent and all-knowing, then the prophecy overrides everything unless the Bible, and therefore God, is wrong. Do we really have the free will as God's follower suggest we do?Let me give an analogy to compare this to...It is like a skilled magician asking someone to choose a card from a stacked deck, at first it appears to be a free choice, but the magician knows the outcome before he even offers the deck. Do we really have the free will?

So, then technically, if he does know about our future choices, then we aren't really making choices nor do we have free will, we're just following a predestined plan.

But the question is, what do we say about ourselves and our actions when we divert from our ordered steps? Is that us following our plan, or is that free willoverriding God's will? Seems like two opposing struggles battling it out in order to find some state of balance....

 

[antonlavey]

This thread is absurd

 

[chegtr]

who really says God is all-good??...because theres a bajillion reasons proving its not all good.