2013-2014 NBA Thread - IND @ WAS and OKC @ LAC on ESPN

[shoeking2101]

any time ANY player is averaging more than 25 shots per game throughout an entire season it means that he's on a trash team with no other options 

Yeah I agree.

There have been plenty of great scorers on trash teams who didn't put up 25 shots and average 30 though. You have to be a special kind of a scorer to do that.

 

[mister friendly]

In AI's defense, efficient scoring didn't really become a big deal til the last 5-7 years with the advent of advanced metrics and the rise of Fantasy Basketball leagues

In the late 1990s it was all about hero ball

You don't think Jordan could have shot 60 percent and scored 30 PPG in this era if he was mindful about efficiency?

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Who's style of play is conducive to winning? I hear this often in association with Melo, but there are very few players in the league who's "style" of play has actually translated to winning, or success.

no, you look at the history of basketball and what it takes to win a championship Melo doesn't have it, in fact having Melo as the best player of your team requires you to sacrifice basically everything you need to win a chip.

He has shown consistently over the course of his career an inability to;

-to elevate the quality of his teammates play
-to form a synergistic relation ship with any other major secondary scorer.

a. Amare played worse pre injury woers when melo got to town
b. the knicks basically couldn't function unless they were playing ISO melo basketball marginalizing everyone else
c. denver offense devloved into turn taking by melo and ai

- to play high level basketball in multiple phases of the game
a. dantoni tried to get him to play three, play more pick and roll, be a better passer he got him fired
b. only effective as a sport up shooter and isolation player
c. forces your team to tilt its entire offense towards the most inefficient play in basketball
d. makes the team easier to defend scout and prepare for

- to be an efficient offensive player without rendering the defense fataly flawed
a. only efficient as a small ball 4, messes up your defense, they can tyson in pick and roll with melo as the only rim protector
b. not effiecent as a wing, is loathed to run pick and roll.



you can't win a chip if he is your best player, its really inescapable, none of these things apply to chris paul.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

but if with the same level of talent around him he wins just as much (or as little) as cp3 then how his his game more conductive to winning than cp3?

the best score first guys in the nba have been as successful if not more than the best pass first guys in the nba

eastern conference

 

[osh kosh bosh]

This sin;t about score first or pass first, its about the specific way he plays and how when he is the best player you have sacrifice certain things that make it impossibly difficult to win a championship.

 

[sea manup]

In AI's defense, efficient scoring didn't really become a big deal til the last 5-7 years with the advent of advanced metrics and the rise of Fantasy Basketball leagues

In the late 1990s it was all about hero ball

You don't think Jordan could have shot 60 percent in this era if he was mindful about efficiency?

people in this era care about efficiency way too much

if you're shooting 10/16 and your team is up by 20 shooting two extra heatcheck shots to end the game 10/18 does not mean you had a worse game than if you stopped shooting and ended the game 10/16

most fans would rather see someone score 50 points on 50% shooting than 35 points on 65% shooting

 

[hypebeast5]

You cant be serious? A.I FG % was horrible and him taking 25+ shots a game didnt help

Most scorers in this league can score 30 on 27 shots

Bruh no one is disputing that. A.I.'s FG% was indeed horrid.

What I'm saying is that Most scorers in this league can't get up 27 shots and score 30 a night doing so man. Getting up 27 shots on an NBA level is hard business. Scoring 30 on said 27 shots beyond a hard thing to do. You have to be a world class elite level scorer to put up 30 on 27 shots. I am not saying shooting 25 shots is a good thing, most times it isn't. However I am saying if a player can get the ball up 27 times, and score 30 a night in doing so, speaks volumes (no pun) of how gifted they are as scorers and athletes.

Alright and what im trying to say is that while it is a difficult achievement is that, i can pick 10 players that can score 30 on 26 shots, all i am disputing is that its not hard getting up that many shots on a team with no offensive options

And that you are overrating that feat a tad bit

 

[mister friendly]

Melo needs to play a winning style like Chris Paul but yet Melo's made it further in the playoffs than Paul has

 

[sea manup]

i get why people say that a team cant win with melo as their best player

but nothing leads me to believe that a team can with with cp3 as its best player, teams whos best players are PGs never win championships

 

[pmatic]

Patiently waiting for someone to mention how Melo is a beast in FIBA play.

Oh wait.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Melo needs to play a winning style like Chris Paul but yet Melo's made it further in the playoffs than Paul has

 

[osh kosh bosh]

i get why people say that a team cant win with melo as their best player


but nothing leads me to believe that a team can with with cp3 as its best player, teams whos best players are PGs never win championships

Isiah thomas pistons, magic johnson lakers,lenny wilkins, walt fraizer, oscar robertson.


cmon man..

 

[sea manup]

 

i get why people say that a team cant win with melo as their best player


but nothing leads me to believe that a team can with with cp3 as its best player, teams whos best players are PGs never win championships

Isiah thomas pistons, magic johnson lakers,lenny wilkins, walt fraizer, oscar robertson.


cmon man..

so no team since the 80s, and magic was the size of a SF

seems about right

 

[black migo]

Cp3 as your #1 option is a 2nd round exit at best

 

[mister friendly]

i get why people say that a team cant win with melo as their best player


but nothing leads me to believe that a team can with with cp3 as its best player, teams whos best players are PGs never win championships

Isiah thomas pistons, magic johnson lakers,lenny wilkins, walt fraizer, oscar robertson.


cmon man..

But you said earlier Isiah Thomas wasn't a generational player

Besides Magic, nobody on this board ever remembers seeing any of those other guys playing either

 

[osh kosh bosh]

so no team since the 80s, and magic was the size of a SF

seems about right

size irrelvent he played point gaurd, same position.


yeah
for that argument to be effective you would have to explain what about basketball changed to make it so PG's arent effective.


aslo chauncey billups

only one championship is handed out per year so a gap isn't really an indication of anything.

 

[shoeking2101]

Chris Paul can be your best player. He just can't be your best scorer.

Luckily, BG has become the man so that's taken care of.

This is the year for the clips

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But you said earlier Isiah Thomas wasn't a generational player

Besides Magic, nobody on this board ever remembers seeing any of those other guys playing either

you need a generational player to win a chip, helps a lot though.

also irrelevant if you saw the play point remains in the hierarchy of basketball positional value.
C>>>>>>>>PG>>>SG>SF>PF

 

[hypebeast5]

so no team since the 80s, and magic was the size of a SF

seems about right

size irrelvent he played point gaurd, same position.


yeah
for that argument to be effective you would have to explain what about basketball changed to make it so PG's arent effective.


aslo chauncey billups

only one championship is handed out per year so a gap isn't really an indication of anything.

Man if your best player is a PG you aint winning anything anymore, the game is won by big players

 

[sea manup]

 

so no team since the 80s, and magic was the size of a SF

seems about right

size irrelvent he played point gaurd, same position.


yeah
for that argument to be effective you would have to explain what about basketball changed to make it so PG's arent effective.


aslo chauncey billups

only one championship is handed out per year so a gap isn't really an indication of anything.

nothing's changed its just in most cases the pg is too small to be effective as the best player on the team

other than IT which was 20+ years ago, pretty much every championship team's clearcut best player has been big enough to be able to dominate a game

building around a 6ft player never works

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Man if your best player is a PG you aint winning anything anymore, the game is won by big players

why, how?

plays positional are smaller?

again 1 championship is handed out per year, a gap doesn't automatically mean something.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

nothing's changed its just in most cases the pg is too small to be effective as the best player on the team

other than IT which was 20+ years ago, pretty much every championship team's clearcut best player has been big enough to be able to dominate a game


building around a 6ft player never works

why? based on what? CHauncy's pistons won in 05 right so again what has changed?

 

[sea manup]

wing player >>> post player >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pg

 

[osh kosh bosh]

wing player >>> post player >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pg

maybe if you ignore 60 years of basketball history.

C>>>>>> its not close.

 

[black migo]

you need a generational player to win a chip, helps a lot though.

also irrelevant if you saw the play point remains in the hierarchy of basketball positional value.
C>>>>>>>>PG>>>SG>SF>PF

Position value is also irrelevant, you just need a great team at the end of the day, the pacers C & Pg are the worst of the starting 5 and theyre title contenders, same with miami