Wrestling Thread July 25-31 | 7/27 - Cena Wins WWE Title, Cena vs Punk @ SummerSlam to Unify Titles

[mitchellicious]

What's with all the wrestling scholars that have entered this thread since the start of Raw?

Damn good show. I wish I had watched Raw before I read the new title of this thread though. Oh well.

 

[bratz dos]

i actually

ed when Cena mentioned TNA

 

@ "I love you, pop"

 

[bratz dos]

i actually

ed when Cena mentioned TNA

 

@ "I love you, pop"

 

[4wrestling]

So now that I've had a night to sleep on it, I will give my thoughts.  This is before I read or listen to any reviews or news about last night's show.
It certainly was not the most thrilling episode of Raw.  However, a lot of important things were accomplished and set in motion for weeks/months to come.

• CM Punk was effectively scrubbed clean from WWE history with Vince and the announcers refusing to use his name, but at the same time, they made sure throughout the show we were aware of him because of the constant references to the huge news that there was no WWE Champion.
• They played up throughout the show that Cena would in fact be fired (despite the fact we know this would never actually happen).
• Vince McMahon put the tournament together to crown a new champion.
• Alberto Del Rio lost in questionable fashion with his shoulder possibly being up.  Del Rio can still argue that he is not only the MITB holder, but also the #1 contender from winning two weeks back.
• The championship match between The Miz and Rey Mysterio was postponed until next week.  At the time, I groaned a little, but this is actually a good thing.  First, it prevented it from being a rushed 3 minute match.  Second, for the first time in a long time, WWE actually is promoting a match for next week's Raw.  Remember back in the day, we would always know what was coming the next week on Raw (or Nitro).  Booking was done in advance, and they could build up matches.  Now with no real competition to try and lure fans in, and the fact that WWE writes everything on the fly literally hours before the show starts, they've gone away from this.  So it's nice to know that next week we will get a match to crown a new WWE Champion.  It gives fans a reason to tune in.
• HHH returned and relieved Vince from his role of head of day to day operations.  This does a lot of things.  
  • HHH returns to TV in a non-wrestling capacity.
  • It kind of mirrors the real life situation where HHH is being groomed to take over for Vince (although we are not at this point yet in reality).
  • It takes Vince off TV, although I fully expect him to be back trying to regain control of the company.
  • There are a ton of interesting possibilities as to where they go with HHH.  Does he play a weekly character?  Is he only seen time to time like Vince was?  Does he bring Stephanie in?  For the time, HHH is a face, but does he eventually turn heel?  Do Michaels, Nash, or Waltman get involved?
  • My guess is that HHH is a frequent character, so does he address everything that has been wrong with WWE?  One would think that if he and "the board" were in agreement to have Vince step down, he needs to address what was wrong, more than just his decision to fire Cena.  So does he say they need to focus more on wrestling?  Get away from PG?  Do a better job of building new stars?  Drop the scripted promos?  This is the perfect scenario of how WWE can make a drastic change in direction in where they're heading.
  • Then you have what happens with Vince.  Does he just completely disappear?  Does he try to regain control of the company?  Does he try to bring CM Punk back?  Again, a ton of ways they can go with this.
  • And for CM Punk, we know he plays into all of this in some way.  To me, it makes perfect sense to set up a CM Punk vs HHH match at WrestleMania.  CM Punk has already laid the seeds.  It works as a perfect establishment vs anti-establishment storyline.  It could be a great build as long as they do it slowly and actually do keep Punk off TV for a while.

So those are just my initial thoughts.  I'm much more bullish about Raw/WWE right now than I was when the show went off the air because I've been able to sit back and digest it.  Usually, we're in the summer slump right now with WWE, but this year, it's the most interesting and entertaining they've been in years.  I'm cautiously optimistic that WWE is really about to turn business around.

 

[4wrestling]

So now that I've had a night to sleep on it, I will give my thoughts.  This is before I read or listen to any reviews or news about last night's show.
It certainly was not the most thrilling episode of Raw.  However, a lot of important things were accomplished and set in motion for weeks/months to come.

• CM Punk was effectively scrubbed clean from WWE history with Vince and the announcers refusing to use his name, but at the same time, they made sure throughout the show we were aware of him because of the constant references to the huge news that there was no WWE Champion.
• They played up throughout the show that Cena would in fact be fired (despite the fact we know this would never actually happen).
• Vince McMahon put the tournament together to crown a new champion.
• Alberto Del Rio lost in questionable fashion with his shoulder possibly being up.  Del Rio can still argue that he is not only the MITB holder, but also the #1 contender from winning two weeks back.
• The championship match between The Miz and Rey Mysterio was postponed until next week.  At the time, I groaned a little, but this is actually a good thing.  First, it prevented it from being a rushed 3 minute match.  Second, for the first time in a long time, WWE actually is promoting a match for next week's Raw.  Remember back in the day, we would always know what was coming the next week on Raw (or Nitro).  Booking was done in advance, and they could build up matches.  Now with no real competition to try and lure fans in, and the fact that WWE writes everything on the fly literally hours before the show starts, they've gone away from this.  So it's nice to know that next week we will get a match to crown a new WWE Champion.  It gives fans a reason to tune in.
• HHH returned and relieved Vince from his role of head of day to day operations.  This does a lot of things.  
  • HHH returns to TV in a non-wrestling capacity.
  • It kind of mirrors the real life situation where HHH is being groomed to take over for Vince (although we are not at this point yet in reality).
  • It takes Vince off TV, although I fully expect him to be back trying to regain control of the company.
  • There are a ton of interesting possibilities as to where they go with HHH.  Does he play a weekly character?  Is he only seen time to time like Vince was?  Does he bring Stephanie in?  For the time, HHH is a face, but does he eventually turn heel?  Do Michaels, Nash, or Waltman get involved?
  • My guess is that HHH is a frequent character, so does he address everything that has been wrong with WWE?  One would think that if he and "the board" were in agreement to have Vince step down, he needs to address what was wrong, more than just his decision to fire Cena.  So does he say they need to focus more on wrestling?  Get away from PG?  Do a better job of building new stars?  Drop the scripted promos?  This is the perfect scenario of how WWE can make a drastic change in direction in where they're heading.
  • Then you have what happens with Vince.  Does he just completely disappear?  Does he try to regain control of the company?  Does he try to bring CM Punk back?  Again, a ton of ways they can go with this.
  • And for CM Punk, we know he plays into all of this in some way.  To me, it makes perfect sense to set up a CM Punk vs HHH match at WrestleMania.  CM Punk has already laid the seeds.  It works as a perfect establishment vs anti-establishment storyline.  It could be a great build as long as they do it slowly and actually do keep Punk off TV for a while.

So those are just my initial thoughts.  I'm much more bullish about Raw/WWE right now than I was when the show went off the air because I've been able to sit back and digest it.  Usually, we're in the summer slump right now with WWE, but this year, it's the most interesting and entertaining they've been in years.  I'm cautiously optimistic that WWE is really about to turn business around.

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by Essential1

I couldn't get into the whole segment at all... I was like ok... But it's not like Vince is no longer calling the shots behind the scenes..... Decent way to get him off tv, and just do it from the background tho... And Vince pulled it off like a pro

I felt the same way watching live, but like I said, I think this opens up a ton of new interesting directions that WWE can go.  We have to remember, when it comes down to it, it's still fictional show.  So just because Vince will be leading the quarterly investor conference calls, WWE can portray something completely different on TV.

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by Essential1

I couldn't get into the whole segment at all... I was like ok... But it's not like Vince is no longer calling the shots behind the scenes..... Decent way to get him off tv, and just do it from the background tho... And Vince pulled it off like a pro

I felt the same way watching live, but like I said, I think this opens up a ton of new interesting directions that WWE can go.  We have to remember, when it comes down to it, it's still fictional show.  So just because Vince will be leading the quarterly investor conference calls, WWE can portray something completely different on TV.

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by YardFather

I'm hearing mixed reviews in here.

Let me put it this way. Tonights Raw = Mark Henry vs Big Show at Money in the Bank. Not the most exciting, shocking, epic, etc. episode of Raw. But it served its purpose and was the right thing to do.

WWE did the right thing by keeping CM Punk off TV. They didn't mention his name but Cole and King constantly referenced twitter and how wwechampionship was trending on twitter, all the while CM Punk was posting pics of him with the title at a Cubs game. Great subtle way to keep Punk relevant.

The championship tournament was the right call too. The champion isn't a WWE employee so Vince acts fast and holds a tournament to crown a new champion, not acknowledging the real champ is parading around town with the his company's title.

The big surprise at the end with HHH taking control from Vince was unexpected and ultimately leads to many more questions of, what is going to happen next? Instead of John Cena Supermanning his way to victory in 6 man tag match main event, Raw ended by creating intrigue and giving us a reason to tune in next week, something the WWE has failed to do over the past few years.

Another win for WWE writers.

Couldn't agree more. +1

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by YardFather

I'm hearing mixed reviews in here.

Let me put it this way. Tonights Raw = Mark Henry vs Big Show at Money in the Bank. Not the most exciting, shocking, epic, etc. episode of Raw. But it served its purpose and was the right thing to do.

WWE did the right thing by keeping CM Punk off TV. They didn't mention his name but Cole and King constantly referenced twitter and how wwechampionship was trending on twitter, all the while CM Punk was posting pics of him with the title at a Cubs game. Great subtle way to keep Punk relevant.

The championship tournament was the right call too. The champion isn't a WWE employee so Vince acts fast and holds a tournament to crown a new champion, not acknowledging the real champ is parading around town with the his company's title.

The big surprise at the end with HHH taking control from Vince was unexpected and ultimately leads to many more questions of, what is going to happen next? Instead of John Cena Supermanning his way to victory in 6 man tag match main event, Raw ended by creating intrigue and giving us a reason to tune in next week, something the WWE has failed to do over the past few years.

Another win for WWE writers.

Couldn't agree more. +1

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by quiickz

Originally Posted by KingJay718

Originally Posted by Furrell

You guys still think that Attitude era = good product.

Get over it because its not coming back soon.

Attitude Era was overrated.  Give me the New Generation Era.

The time between the Golden Age and the Attitude Era > 

Wait, what?  You're not talking about the mid-90's are you?  These were DARK days for WWE.....

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by quiickz

Originally Posted by KingJay718

Originally Posted by Furrell

You guys still think that Attitude era = good product.

Get over it because its not coming back soon.

Attitude Era was overrated.  Give me the New Generation Era.

The time between the Golden Age and the Attitude Era > 

Wait, what?  You're not talking about the mid-90's are you?  These were DARK days for WWE.....

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by hombrelobo

@ Andy being bothered by meth heads during his segment. I like him. But I don't see the silent rage gimmick going over.

My guess is he debuts as a babyface, people hate him, and then snaps and (tries to) become heel.  The 'Silent Rage' gimmick works much better a heel anyway.  But heel or face, he doesn't have it in my opinion.

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by hombrelobo

@ Andy being bothered by meth heads during his segment. I like him. But I don't see the silent rage gimmick going over.

My guess is he debuts as a babyface, people hate him, and then snaps and (tries to) become heel.  The 'Silent Rage' gimmick works much better a heel anyway.  But heel or face, he doesn't have it in my opinion.

 

[scott frost]

CM Punk will be Vince's way of getting back control.

 

[scott frost]

CM Punk will be Vince's way of getting back control.

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by 650sGABE

Somewhat okay RAW I guess. I think its good they kept Punk off and refrained from promoting him or saying his name. I like the whole 'lockout' vibe between the company and him.

Here's what I see happening (more want to see happen though):

Miz faces Mysterio next week. Whoever wins that is the "champion" for the time being. In the coming weeks, Punk returns and says he's the true champ only to have John Cena come out and say he deserves a rematch. HHH then makes it a a triple threat match at Summerslam for the WWE title. Punk retains, so the company can legitimatize him as a face. At Survivor Series (or around that time), Cena blabs on how he wants a one on one match with Punk. Punk drops the title to Cena in a swerve by HHH to turn him into the heel chairman he's supposed to be, setting up for a HHH/Punk feud right on time for WM. By that time, Cena can drop the belt to someone else, so we can HHH/Punk and Cena/Rock, giving the title dynamic to another feud.

Wishful thinking?

There are only three Raw's left until Summerslam.  I think it is way to quick for Punk to come back, let alone all that happen.  Personally, my guess is that Miz wins the title.  He then loses it to Cena, whether at Summerslam or some point after.  This is what will bring back Punk, because Cena will be saying he is the champ, but Punk will come back claiming he is the real champ.  This sets up the Cena vs Punk champ vs champ match.  And my guess, it doesn't go down until Survivor Series @ MSG.

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by 650sGABE

Somewhat okay RAW I guess. I think its good they kept Punk off and refrained from promoting him or saying his name. I like the whole 'lockout' vibe between the company and him.

Here's what I see happening (more want to see happen though):

Miz faces Mysterio next week. Whoever wins that is the "champion" for the time being. In the coming weeks, Punk returns and says he's the true champ only to have John Cena come out and say he deserves a rematch. HHH then makes it a a triple threat match at Summerslam for the WWE title. Punk retains, so the company can legitimatize him as a face. At Survivor Series (or around that time), Cena blabs on how he wants a one on one match with Punk. Punk drops the title to Cena in a swerve by HHH to turn him into the heel chairman he's supposed to be, setting up for a HHH/Punk feud right on time for WM. By that time, Cena can drop the belt to someone else, so we can HHH/Punk and Cena/Rock, giving the title dynamic to another feud.

Wishful thinking?

There are only three Raw's left until Summerslam.  I think it is way to quick for Punk to come back, let alone all that happen.  Personally, my guess is that Miz wins the title.  He then loses it to Cena, whether at Summerslam or some point after.  This is what will bring back Punk, because Cena will be saying he is the champ, but Punk will come back claiming he is the real champ.  This sets up the Cena vs Punk champ vs champ match.  And my guess, it doesn't go down until Survivor Series @ MSG.

 

[kingjay718]

Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by quiickz

Originally Posted by KingJay718



Attitude Era was overrated.  Give me the New Generation Era.

The time between the Golden Age and the Attitude Era > 

Wait, what?  You're not talking about the mid-90's are you?  These were DARK days for WWE.....

I was referring to the years 1992-1994 Post Hulkamania.   95-96 were tough times.  Bodydonnas?

  

 

[kingjay718]

Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by quiickz

Originally Posted by KingJay718



Attitude Era was overrated.  Give me the New Generation Era.

The time between the Golden Age and the Attitude Era > 

Wait, what?  You're not talking about the mid-90's are you?  These were DARK days for WWE.....

I was referring to the years 1992-1994 Post Hulkamania.   95-96 were tough times.  Bodydonnas?

  

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by sickickz23

TNA needs it....and besides...it won't hurt the WWE....I don't ever see WWE losing to TNA

While I completely agree, WCW also thought they would never lose to WWF, and we saw what happened there.  Of course, it's the same morons that sunk WCW that are running TNA now, so.....

 

[4wrestling]

Originally Posted by sickickz23

TNA needs it....and besides...it won't hurt the WWE....I don't ever see WWE losing to TNA

While I completely agree, WCW also thought they would never lose to WWF, and we saw what happened there.  Of course, it's the same morons that sunk WCW that are running TNA now, so.....

 

[4wrestling]

AirUpHere23 wrote:

---

I think back to 1993 when Shawn Michaels was "indefinitely suspended" by then president Jack Tunney, and Razor Ramon won the IC title in a tournament....only later for HBK to come back off suspension with the IC belt, claiming to never have lost it...setting up the Razor Ramon-HBK feud....


I could see a similar turn of events if WWE wanted to go that route with CM Punk...

Completely agree like I said a few posts earlier.

 

[4wrestling]

AirUpHere23 wrote:

---

I think back to 1993 when Shawn Michaels was "indefinitely suspended" by then president Jack Tunney, and Razor Ramon won the IC title in a tournament....only later for HBK to come back off suspension with the IC belt, claiming to never have lost it...setting up the Razor Ramon-HBK feud....


I could see a similar turn of events if WWE wanted to go that route with CM Punk...

Completely agree like I said a few posts earlier.

 

[biff lawson]

Originally Posted by KingJay718

Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by quiickz


The time between the Golden Age and the Attitude Era > 

Wait, what?  You're not talking about the mid-90's are you?  These were DARK days for WWE.....

I was referring to the years 1992-1994 Post Hulkamania.   95-96 were tough times.  Bodydonnas?

  

Those were some Dark days but real fans stuck with it 

 even as a kid i knew the smoking guns, adam bomb, kwang sucked but i still was copping ppvs 

 

[biff lawson]

Originally Posted by KingJay718

Originally Posted by 4wrestling

Originally Posted by quiickz


The time between the Golden Age and the Attitude Era > 

Wait, what?  You're not talking about the mid-90's are you?  These were DARK days for WWE.....

I was referring to the years 1992-1994 Post Hulkamania.   95-96 were tough times.  Bodydonnas?

  

Those were some Dark days but real fans stuck with it 

 even as a kid i knew the smoking guns, adam bomb, kwang sucked but i still was copping ppvs