What's wrong with Gay Marriage?

[wr]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

Once again, the same crew of athiest with their fundamentalist interpretation of what the bible says. Ya'll act like only one god speaks throughout the bible. There are many different Lords and Gods throughout the bible giving good and bad direction to man. You will forever be confused and arguing about these issues because even though ya'll claim not to be monotheistic christians, ya'll still interpret the bible and it's allegory with the fundamental "there is only one god, none other before" mentality just as they have been indoctrinated to believe and it is wrong.

-I see the same what about slavery argument in the bible. Slavery back then was nothing like the slaver we know. Working your 9-5 job would fall under the biblical context of slavery but at least back then, there was a point were you could eventually buy your freedom vs. working forever and paying taxes for life like we do now

-I see the same argument about condemning people to burning in hell but ya'll still do not see that burning in hell means to live with desires of the flesh. Burning and desire were synonymous in the bible.

-Only reason homosexuality is a sin is because it is not conducive to creating life and co habitation the way the creator meant for it to be. It's telling the creator I'm made by you one way, but I am going to do the opposite which is a form a blasphemy to your creator.
-people forget the christian bible is a dialogue between a father and his lost children and how they rise, fall, and return back to glory. Stop ascribing the text to fit everybody because that's not what it was meant. for. That's only modern christianity that took what was once an exclusive religion and made it available for everyone to be apart once it opened it doors to become a political institution. Like all political institutions you need supporters. 

You're doing the same thing everyone else is doing in this thread, offering your own interpretation of what you "THINK" is being said in the bible. Atheists aren't the only ones acting like there is "one" God in the bible. Judeochristians themselves believe there's one God in the bible. Your interpretation of the Gods in the bible doesn't hold any more legitimacy than another person's. Atheists interpret the bible fundamentally in response to Judeochristians and Muslims interpreting the bible fundamentally. If you quote a page in the bible about $%*%% needing to die and take it as truth, you are not allowed to deny all the other fundamental laws in the bible that you break every single day. If you're going to fundamentally interpret the bible, don't do it half-!%+ed. You clearly missing the point of an atheists approach to religious arguments.

-Since when do workers get beaten for not doing their job?

. Let's not sit here and pretend like slavery wasn't rampant in ancient times. People are too quick to dismiss it as "indentured servitude"


If it were up to me this thread would have nothing to do with religion...but unfortunately that isn't the reality we live in. If people just came out and said they hated gays and kept it moving I would have no rebuttal.

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

Once again, the same crew of athiest with their fundamentalist interpretation of what the bible says. Ya'll act like only one god speaks throughout the bible. There are many different Lords and Gods throughout the bible giving good and bad direction to man. You will forever be confused and arguing about these issues because even though ya'll claim not to be monotheistic christians, ya'll still interpret the bible and it's allegory with the fundamental "there is only one god, none other before" mentality just as they have been indoctrinated to believe and it is wrong.

-I see the same what about slavery argument in the bible. Slavery back then was nothing like the slaver we know. Working your 9-5 job would fall under the biblical context of slavery but at least back then, there was a point were you could eventually buy your freedom vs. working forever and paying taxes for life like we do now

-I see the same argument about condemning people to burning in hell but ya'll still do not see that burning in hell means to live with desires of the flesh. Burning and desire were synonymous in the bible.

-Only reason homosexuality is a sin is because it is not conducive to creating life and co habitation the way the creator meant for it to be. It's telling the creator I'm made by you one way, but I am going to do the opposite which is a form a blasphemy to your creator.
-people forget the christian bible is a dialogue between a father and his lost children and how they rise, fall, and return back to glory. Stop ascribing the text to fit everybody because that's not what it was meant. for. That's only modern christianity that took what was once an exclusive religion and made it available for everyone to be apart once it opened it doors to become a political institution. Like all political institutions you need supporters. 

You're doing the same thing everyone else is doing in this thread, offering your own interpretation of what you "THINK" is being said in the bible. Atheists aren't the only ones acting like there is "one" God in the bible. Judeochristians themselves believe there's one God in the bible. Your interpretation of the Gods in the bible doesn't hold any more legitimacy than another person's. Atheists interpret the bible fundamentally in response to Judeochristians and Muslims interpreting the bible fundamentally. If you quote a page in the bible about $%*%% needing to die and take it as truth, you are not allowed to deny all the other fundamental laws in the bible that you break every single day. If you're going to fundamentally interpret the bible, don't do it half-!%+ed. You clearly missing the point of an atheists approach to religious arguments.

-Since when do workers get beaten for not doing their job?

. Let's not sit here and pretend like slavery wasn't rampant in ancient times. People are too quick to dismiss it as "indentured servitude"


If it were up to me this thread would have nothing to do with religion...but unfortunately that isn't the reality we live in. If people just came out and said they hated gays and kept it moving I would have no rebuttal.

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

 

[gambit215]

To the ppl who support marriage between same sex couples

Should brothers and sisters be able to get married?
What about father and daughter?
Mother and Son?

As long as they are over 18, and they consent, its all good right?

Just a question, try not to look too deep into it, just want to see how people feel about incest. Are we not denying their "Love" for each other?

I think both hetero and #*%* everything comes down to sex, whos allowed to get down?

BTW, Raised Catholic, really could care less if Homosexuals get together and have unions.

 

[gambit215]

To the ppl who support marriage between same sex couples

Should brothers and sisters be able to get married?
What about father and daughter?
Mother and Son?

As long as they are over 18, and they consent, its all good right?

Just a question, try not to look too deep into it, just want to see how people feel about incest. Are we not denying their "Love" for each other?

I think both hetero and #*%* everything comes down to sex, whos allowed to get down?

BTW, Raised Catholic, really could care less if Homosexuals get together and have unions.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Wr

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

Once again, the same crew of athiest with their fundamentalist interpretation of what the bible says. Ya'll act like only one god speaks throughout the bible. There are many different Lords and Gods throughout the bible giving good and bad direction to man. You will forever be confused and arguing about these issues because even though ya'll claim not to be monotheistic christians, ya'll still interpret the bible and it's allegory with the fundamental "there is only one god, none other before" mentality just as they have been indoctrinated to believe and it is wrong.

-I see the same what about slavery argument in the bible. Slavery back then was nothing like the slaver we know. Working your 9-5 job would fall under the biblical context of slavery but at least back then, there was a point were you could eventually buy your freedom vs. working forever and paying taxes for life like we do now

-I see the same argument about condemning people to burning in hell but ya'll still do not see that burning in hell means to live with desires of the flesh. Burning and desire were synonymous in the bible.

-Only reason homosexuality is a sin is because it is not conducive to creating life and co habitation the way the creator meant for it to be. It's telling the creator I'm made by you one way, but I am going to do the opposite which is a form a blasphemy to your creator.
-people forget the christian bible is a dialogue between a father and his lost children and how they rise, fall, and return back to glory. Stop ascribing the text to fit everybody because that's not what it was meant. for. That's only modern christianity that took what was once an exclusive religion and made it available for everyone to be apart once it opened it doors to become a political institution. Like all political institutions you need supporters. 

You're doing the same thing everyone else is doing in this thread, offering your own interpretation of what you "THINK" is being said in the bible. Atheists aren't the only ones acting like there is "one" God in the bible. Judeochristians themselves believe there's one God in the bible. Your interpretation of the Gods in the bible doesn't hold any more legitimacy than another person's. Atheists interpret the bible fundamentally in response to Judeochristians and Muslims interpreting the bible fundamentally. If you quote a page in the bible about $%*%% needing to die and take it as truth, you are not allowed to deny all the other fundamental laws in the bible that you break every single day. If you're going to fundamentally interpret the bible, don't do it half-!%+ed. You clearly missing the point of an atheists approach to religious arguments.

-Since when do workers get beaten for not doing their job?

. Let's not sit here and pretend like slavery wasn't rampant in ancient times. People are too quick to dismiss it as "indentured servitude"


If it were up to me this thread would have nothing to do with religion...but unfortunately that isn't the reality we live in. If people just came out and said they hated gays and kept it moving I would have no rebuttal.

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

-I see exactly what you're saying but you completely miss the point of me posting bible verses. It's simply to show the hypocrisy of people thought processes, not to make any assertions about the legitimacy behind the verses.

-I don't believe int he "God" or Gods in the judeochristian bible but most christians and jews I've spoken to say there is only one God.....clearly your interpretation is different. Don't know which one is more correct and I frankly could care less.

-Ok slavery didn't exist in the bible

um what about the rapes? I posted a verse a few pages back that was rape without ambiguity, and someone tried to justify it.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Clearly the way "slaves" were treated was horrible if they didn't want their family treated that way. And since when to servants get PURCHASED?

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Wr

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

Once again, the same crew of athiest with their fundamentalist interpretation of what the bible says. Ya'll act like only one god speaks throughout the bible. There are many different Lords and Gods throughout the bible giving good and bad direction to man. You will forever be confused and arguing about these issues because even though ya'll claim not to be monotheistic christians, ya'll still interpret the bible and it's allegory with the fundamental "there is only one god, none other before" mentality just as they have been indoctrinated to believe and it is wrong.

-I see the same what about slavery argument in the bible. Slavery back then was nothing like the slaver we know. Working your 9-5 job would fall under the biblical context of slavery but at least back then, there was a point were you could eventually buy your freedom vs. working forever and paying taxes for life like we do now

-I see the same argument about condemning people to burning in hell but ya'll still do not see that burning in hell means to live with desires of the flesh. Burning and desire were synonymous in the bible.

-Only reason homosexuality is a sin is because it is not conducive to creating life and co habitation the way the creator meant for it to be. It's telling the creator I'm made by you one way, but I am going to do the opposite which is a form a blasphemy to your creator.
-people forget the christian bible is a dialogue between a father and his lost children and how they rise, fall, and return back to glory. Stop ascribing the text to fit everybody because that's not what it was meant. for. That's only modern christianity that took what was once an exclusive religion and made it available for everyone to be apart once it opened it doors to become a political institution. Like all political institutions you need supporters. 

You're doing the same thing everyone else is doing in this thread, offering your own interpretation of what you "THINK" is being said in the bible. Atheists aren't the only ones acting like there is "one" God in the bible. Judeochristians themselves believe there's one God in the bible. Your interpretation of the Gods in the bible doesn't hold any more legitimacy than another person's. Atheists interpret the bible fundamentally in response to Judeochristians and Muslims interpreting the bible fundamentally. If you quote a page in the bible about $%*%% needing to die and take it as truth, you are not allowed to deny all the other fundamental laws in the bible that you break every single day. If you're going to fundamentally interpret the bible, don't do it half-!%+ed. You clearly missing the point of an atheists approach to religious arguments.

-Since when do workers get beaten for not doing their job?

. Let's not sit here and pretend like slavery wasn't rampant in ancient times. People are too quick to dismiss it as "indentured servitude"


If it were up to me this thread would have nothing to do with religion...but unfortunately that isn't the reality we live in. If people just came out and said they hated gays and kept it moving I would have no rebuttal.

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

-I see exactly what you're saying but you completely miss the point of me posting bible verses. It's simply to show the hypocrisy of people thought processes, not to make any assertions about the legitimacy behind the verses.

-I don't believe int he "God" or Gods in the judeochristian bible but most christians and jews I've spoken to say there is only one God.....clearly your interpretation is different. Don't know which one is more correct and I frankly could care less.

-Ok slavery didn't exist in the bible

um what about the rapes? I posted a verse a few pages back that was rape without ambiguity, and someone tried to justify it.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Clearly the way "slaves" were treated was horrible if they didn't want their family treated that way. And since when to servants get PURCHASED?

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by gambit215

To the ppl who support marriage between same sex couples

Should brothers and sisters be able to get married?
What about father and daughter?
Mother and Son?

As long as they are over 18, and they consent, its all good right?

Just a question, try not to look too deep into it, just want to see how people feel about incest. Are we not denying their "Love" for each other?

I think both hetero and #*%* everything comes down to sex, whos allowed to get down?

BTW, Raised Catholic, really could care less if Homosexuals get together and have unions.

http://Really dude?

 

[lobotomybeats]

Originally Posted by gambit215

To the ppl who support marriage between same sex couples

Should brothers and sisters be able to get married?
What about father and daughter?
Mother and Son?

As long as they are over 18, and they consent, its all good right?

Just a question, try not to look too deep into it, just want to see how people feel about incest. Are we not denying their "Love" for each other?

I think both hetero and #*%* everything comes down to sex, whos allowed to get down?

BTW, Raised Catholic, really could care less if Homosexuals get together and have unions.

http://Really dude?

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by do work son

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I still don't see how that's answering my question.

Anyone else wanna help me out ?

you don't believe gay marriage should be an inalienable right because the bible condemns homosexual acts. let's say someone is a member of a church that supports homosexuality (outlandish i know, but follow me here). they aren't christians and don't read the bible, but the laws of the united states should reflect the religious text of a religion they don't follow?

I'm not Christian but I'll play along.
Someone who believes GM is wrong and votes against it, and someone who believes GM is right and votes for it are doing the exact same thing. Both want the laws to reflect their own value systems, wherever they derive them from.

AntonLaVey wrote:

---

tkthafm wrote:

---

I still don't see how that's answering my question. 

Anyone else wanna help me out ?

How doesn't that answer your question, you're asserting that marriage for homosexuals isn't an inalienable right....because it is an OPINION. I responded by saying there are many rights that are taken away/have been taken away from people who had the "personal opinion" that others were undeserving of those rights. You are in no position to tell someone what rights are inalienable when you benefit from them.


That's like me owning a car, yet banning bald people from driving because a fairy tale book told me to (yea corny example but you should get the point). I can't say driving isn't an inalienable right when I clearly benefit from it. 


meh i tried....back to reading

I see what you are saying, but I already responded to that. Using your same argument, I can claim anything as a fundamental inalienable human right, then back it up by bringing up slavery or any other instance where a majority denied a group some right. 

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by do work son

Originally Posted by tkthafm

I still don't see how that's answering my question.

Anyone else wanna help me out ?

you don't believe gay marriage should be an inalienable right because the bible condemns homosexual acts. let's say someone is a member of a church that supports homosexuality (outlandish i know, but follow me here). they aren't christians and don't read the bible, but the laws of the united states should reflect the religious text of a religion they don't follow?

I'm not Christian but I'll play along.
Someone who believes GM is wrong and votes against it, and someone who believes GM is right and votes for it are doing the exact same thing. Both want the laws to reflect their own value systems, wherever they derive them from.

AntonLaVey wrote:

---

tkthafm wrote:

---

I still don't see how that's answering my question. 

Anyone else wanna help me out ?

How doesn't that answer your question, you're asserting that marriage for homosexuals isn't an inalienable right....because it is an OPINION. I responded by saying there are many rights that are taken away/have been taken away from people who had the "personal opinion" that others were undeserving of those rights. You are in no position to tell someone what rights are inalienable when you benefit from them.


That's like me owning a car, yet banning bald people from driving because a fairy tale book told me to (yea corny example but you should get the point). I can't say driving isn't an inalienable right when I clearly benefit from it. 


meh i tried....back to reading

I see what you are saying, but I already responded to that. Using your same argument, I can claim anything as a fundamental inalienable human right, then back it up by bringing up slavery or any other instance where a majority denied a group some right. 

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by gambit215

To the ppl who support marriage between same sex couples

Should brothers and sisters be able to get married?
What about father and daughter?
Mother and Son?

As long as they are over 18, and they consent, its all good right?

Just a question, try not to look too deep into it, just want to see how people feel about incest. Are we not denying their "Love" for each other?

I think both hetero and #*%* everything comes down to sex, whos allowed to get down?

BTW, Raised Catholic, really could care less if Homosexuals get together and have unions.

How many brothers and sisters? Mothers and sons? Do you know want to get married.

Brothers and sisters=Im ok with

Parent and child-potential for abuse is too great.....it would raise a lot of questions. For a father to marry his daughter it would potentially mean a history of sexual abuse starting when she was a child. This is not consent.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by gambit215

To the ppl who support marriage between same sex couples

Should brothers and sisters be able to get married?
What about father and daughter?
Mother and Son?

As long as they are over 18, and they consent, its all good right?

Just a question, try not to look too deep into it, just want to see how people feel about incest. Are we not denying their "Love" for each other?

I think both hetero and #*%* everything comes down to sex, whos allowed to get down?

BTW, Raised Catholic, really could care less if Homosexuals get together and have unions.

How many brothers and sisters? Mothers and sons? Do you know want to get married.

Brothers and sisters=Im ok with

Parent and child-potential for abuse is too great.....it would raise a lot of questions. For a father to marry his daughter it would potentially mean a history of sexual abuse starting when she was a child. This is not consent.

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

You're doing the same thing everyone else is doing in this thread, offering your own interpretation of what you "THINK" is being said in the bible. Atheists aren't the only ones acting like there is "one" God in the bible. Judeochristians themselves believe there's one God in the bible. Your interpretation of the Gods in the bible doesn't hold any more legitimacy than another person's. Atheists interpret the bible fundamentally in response to Judeochristians and Muslims interpreting the bible fundamentally. If you quote a page in the bible about $%*%% needing to die and take it as truth, you are not allowed to deny all the other fundamental laws in the bible that you break every single day. If you're going to fundamentally interpret the bible, don't do it half-!%+ed. You clearly missing the point of an atheists approach to religious arguments.

-Since when do workers get beaten for not doing their job?

. Let's not sit here and pretend like slavery wasn't rampant in ancient times. People are too quick to dismiss it as "indentured servitude"


If it were up to me this thread would have nothing to do with religion...but unfortunately that isn't the reality we live in. If people just came out and said they hated gays and kept it moving I would have no rebuttal.

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

-I see exactly what you're saying but you completely miss the point of me posting bible verses. It's simply to show the hypocrisy of people thought processes, not to make any assertions about the legitimacy behind the verses.

-I don't believe int he "God" or Gods in the judeochristian bible but most christians and jews I've spoken to say there is only one God.....clearly your interpretation is different. Don't know which one is more correct and I frankly could care less.

-Ok slavery didn't exist in the bible

um what about the rapes? I posted a verse a few pages back that was rape without ambiguity, and someone tried to justify it.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Clearly the way "slaves" were treated was horrible if they didn't want their family treated that way. And since when to servants get PURCHASED?

It doesn't matter if an individual believes in the Gods of the bible or not. If you objectively read the Bible you will find mention of other gods. The original word for god elohim is actually a plural term. It was up until the geneva convention that rape officially no longer was a tactic of war, but it still is even to this day. 

 

[wr]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

You're doing the same thing everyone else is doing in this thread, offering your own interpretation of what you "THINK" is being said in the bible. Atheists aren't the only ones acting like there is "one" God in the bible. Judeochristians themselves believe there's one God in the bible. Your interpretation of the Gods in the bible doesn't hold any more legitimacy than another person's. Atheists interpret the bible fundamentally in response to Judeochristians and Muslims interpreting the bible fundamentally. If you quote a page in the bible about $%*%% needing to die and take it as truth, you are not allowed to deny all the other fundamental laws in the bible that you break every single day. If you're going to fundamentally interpret the bible, don't do it half-!%+ed. You clearly missing the point of an atheists approach to religious arguments.

-Since when do workers get beaten for not doing their job?

. Let's not sit here and pretend like slavery wasn't rampant in ancient times. People are too quick to dismiss it as "indentured servitude"


If it were up to me this thread would have nothing to do with religion...but unfortunately that isn't the reality we live in. If people just came out and said they hated gays and kept it moving I would have no rebuttal.

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

-I see exactly what you're saying but you completely miss the point of me posting bible verses. It's simply to show the hypocrisy of people thought processes, not to make any assertions about the legitimacy behind the verses.

-I don't believe int he "God" or Gods in the judeochristian bible but most christians and jews I've spoken to say there is only one God.....clearly your interpretation is different. Don't know which one is more correct and I frankly could care less.

-Ok slavery didn't exist in the bible

um what about the rapes? I posted a verse a few pages back that was rape without ambiguity, and someone tried to justify it.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Clearly the way "slaves" were treated was horrible if they didn't want their family treated that way. And since when to servants get PURCHASED?

It doesn't matter if an individual believes in the Gods of the bible or not. If you objectively read the Bible you will find mention of other gods. The original word for god elohim is actually a plural term. It was up until the geneva convention that rape officially no longer was a tactic of war, but it still is even to this day. 

 

[crunchyblack9]

There nothing wrong with it b\c it doesnt exist.

 

[crunchyblack9]

There nothing wrong with it b\c it doesnt exist.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Wr

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

-I see exactly what you're saying but you completely miss the point of me posting bible verses. It's simply to show the hypocrisy of people thought processes, not to make any assertions about the legitimacy behind the verses.

-I don't believe int he "God" or Gods in the judeochristian bible but most christians and jews I've spoken to say there is only one God.....clearly your interpretation is different. Don't know which one is more correct and I frankly could care less.

-Ok slavery didn't exist in the bible

um what about the rapes? I posted a verse a few pages back that was rape without ambiguity, and someone tried to justify it.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Clearly the way "slaves" were treated was horrible if they didn't want their family treated that way. And since when to servants get PURCHASED?

It doesn't matter if an individual believes in the Gods of the bible or not. If you objectively read the Bible you will find mention of other gods. The original word for god elohim is actually a plural term. It was up until the geneva convention that rape officially no longer was a tactic of war, but it still is even to this day. 

yes, still goes on....but in the bible is was sanctioned by God/Gods whatever you wanna call em. Gods that religious people claim to be all-loving. There are many interpretations of religious texts and everyone thinks their is the correct one. I am inclined to not believe any of them but I see what you mean.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Wr

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by Wr

I understand where you are coming from when batting judeochristain reotric with the same kind of logic right back to let some people see the fallacy in their arguments, but don't you think it is sacrificial to your point of view to hold the same logic as the people you are debating against just to show them they are wrong? point I'm trying to make is, you can argue how wrong somebody is all day by presenting them with  working examples of why they are wrong, but at the end of the day the logic base of the whole argument is wrong if two people are using wrong truths to make a point and what was originally intended. 
Umm have you ever heard of children being beaten in school? I know I was and I witnessed it done to others. Both public and private school.

And the bible having many gods in it is not of my own thinking, opinion or whatever you may seem to think. It is fact in the bible that there are many Gods. The whole book of Kings in the bible is a dialogue on how the kings of Israel gradually fell by incorporating worship of other gods into their culture.

It's kind of ironic how a country supposedly founded on the principles of religious tolerance can not escape the shackles of religious rhetoric. Especially in politics. All those nuts out there protesting about america being a christian nation...give me a break and a kitt katt bar. This is not a christian nation...

-I see exactly what you're saying but you completely miss the point of me posting bible verses. It's simply to show the hypocrisy of people thought processes, not to make any assertions about the legitimacy behind the verses.

-I don't believe int he "God" or Gods in the judeochristian bible but most christians and jews I've spoken to say there is only one God.....clearly your interpretation is different. Don't know which one is more correct and I frankly could care less.

-Ok slavery didn't exist in the bible

um what about the rapes? I posted a verse a few pages back that was rape without ambiguity, and someone tried to justify it.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you.  You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land.  You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance.  You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.  (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

Clearly the way "slaves" were treated was horrible if they didn't want their family treated that way. And since when to servants get PURCHASED?

It doesn't matter if an individual believes in the Gods of the bible or not. If you objectively read the Bible you will find mention of other gods. The original word for god elohim is actually a plural term. It was up until the geneva convention that rape officially no longer was a tactic of war, but it still is even to this day. 

yes, still goes on....but in the bible is was sanctioned by God/Gods whatever you wanna call em. Gods that religious people claim to be all-loving. There are many interpretations of religious texts and everyone thinks their is the correct one. I am inclined to not believe any of them but I see what you mean.

 

[wr]

^word. marriage is the joining together of opposites. not the joining of the same thing. It's like putting magnets together on the like ends...

 

[wr]

^word. marriage is the joining together of opposites. not the joining of the same thing. It's like putting magnets together on the like ends...

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Wr

^word. marriage is the joining together of opposites. not the joining of the same thing. It's like putting magnets together on the like ends...

So we're using analogies from physics now to deny people the right to get married? Technically speaking, if a man if attracted to another man this applies as well. Magnetism is about physical attraction-not appearances. Magnets of the SAME colors, shapes, and sizes can still be attracted to one another just as long as the correct poles are aligned (pause)

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Wr

^word. marriage is the joining together of opposites. not the joining of the same thing. It's like putting magnets together on the like ends...

So we're using analogies from physics now to deny people the right to get married? Technically speaking, if a man if attracted to another man this applies as well. Magnetism is about physical attraction-not appearances. Magnets of the SAME colors, shapes, and sizes can still be attracted to one another just as long as the correct poles are aligned (pause)

 

[deuce king]

  

Originally Posted by ScarsOrScabs

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by melofan15

for those that are anti-gay marriage, are you against gay relationships or is the concept of marriage the determining factor in your beliefs?

For me it's the concept of marriage.

   For someone who's always preaching that "give a black man a chance" you making the same argument a slave master wouldve made when blacks were trying to fight for their freedom.

Apples and oranges champ, apples and oranges.  If gay people want to unite, then by all means have a civil union.  However, whether folks on here or anywhere else want to believe it or not the term "marriage" has religion or religious components to it.        

Then why can two people get married by an Elvis impersonator in Vegas and have that recognized by government?

Sure, in it's idea, it had a religious element.  The problem is that our nation is supposed to allow freedom of religion, a separation of church and state.  The argument always reverts back to religion however and that a marriage between two people of the same sex is not what was intended in the eyes of God.  Just look at divorce rates if you want to know how truly sacred marriage is among heterosexuals, believers in God or not.  Why can two heterosexuals have the right to get married and then divorced as they please, ignoring the vows that they made?  If two men or two women are truly willing to honor those vows, why is it that they shouldn't be allowed that right?  I know it's simplistic and divorce isn't right, but let's just be real about society.

The world has changed, in some ways for the better, in other ways not so much.  We have to progress and I know the civil rights or women's rights movements are a difficult comparison for some, but these are real people, there isn't something wrong with them because they're different than you, they are not the second-class citizens that they are often treated as.  Allow them the freedom to feel that their ability to love is just as important as that of a heterosexual and that they too can see the benefits of a recognized marriage.


As far as Elvis impersonators go, some people have themed-weddings/marriage for whatever reason.  Folks get married on roller coasters, under water in scuba gear, or while ski-diving.  Some of those themes aren't really my thing or something I would do, but if they take that vow before God then so be it, I guess they just want to have fun with it.  Regarding divorce rates, your trying to use "bad behavior or practices" to condone or justify something else, not exactly grounds for a winning connection champ.  Do you not see how bad of a comparison that is??  Like I said earlier, I don't believe in divorce, although I know it happens but that still doesn't re-define my view or thought process on marriage and importantly what it consists of.  Divorce is frowned upon in the church as well, same goes for homosexuality.

If two men or two women want to join forces by all means do so by way of a civil union.  Like I stated earlier, marriage is of the church or of religion.

 

[deuce king]

  

Originally Posted by ScarsOrScabs

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by melofan15

for those that are anti-gay marriage, are you against gay relationships or is the concept of marriage the determining factor in your beliefs?

For me it's the concept of marriage.

   For someone who's always preaching that "give a black man a chance" you making the same argument a slave master wouldve made when blacks were trying to fight for their freedom.

Apples and oranges champ, apples and oranges.  If gay people want to unite, then by all means have a civil union.  However, whether folks on here or anywhere else want to believe it or not the term "marriage" has religion or religious components to it.        

Then why can two people get married by an Elvis impersonator in Vegas and have that recognized by government?

Sure, in it's idea, it had a religious element.  The problem is that our nation is supposed to allow freedom of religion, a separation of church and state.  The argument always reverts back to religion however and that a marriage between two people of the same sex is not what was intended in the eyes of God.  Just look at divorce rates if you want to know how truly sacred marriage is among heterosexuals, believers in God or not.  Why can two heterosexuals have the right to get married and then divorced as they please, ignoring the vows that they made?  If two men or two women are truly willing to honor those vows, why is it that they shouldn't be allowed that right?  I know it's simplistic and divorce isn't right, but let's just be real about society.

The world has changed, in some ways for the better, in other ways not so much.  We have to progress and I know the civil rights or women's rights movements are a difficult comparison for some, but these are real people, there isn't something wrong with them because they're different than you, they are not the second-class citizens that they are often treated as.  Allow them the freedom to feel that their ability to love is just as important as that of a heterosexual and that they too can see the benefits of a recognized marriage.


As far as Elvis impersonators go, some people have themed-weddings/marriage for whatever reason.  Folks get married on roller coasters, under water in scuba gear, or while ski-diving.  Some of those themes aren't really my thing or something I would do, but if they take that vow before God then so be it, I guess they just want to have fun with it.  Regarding divorce rates, your trying to use "bad behavior or practices" to condone or justify something else, not exactly grounds for a winning connection champ.  Do you not see how bad of a comparison that is??  Like I said earlier, I don't believe in divorce, although I know it happens but that still doesn't re-define my view or thought process on marriage and importantly what it consists of.  Divorce is frowned upon in the church as well, same goes for homosexuality.

If two men or two women want to join forces by all means do so by way of a civil union.  Like I stated earlier, marriage is of the church or of religion.

 

[veezyv]

O look its this topic again