What's wrong with Gay Marriage?

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by red mpls


Yup.  The good old "pick-and-choose."

Maybe one of these anti-gay marriage posters will surprise us and support outlawing premarital sex, cohabitation, etc.

No takers, huh?

Simply re-read my posts and replace GM with the above. If a society wants to outlaw the above, what's "wrong" with it ? I don't view any of the above as infringing on intrinsic human rights either. We already know that none of that will fly in the US, but in a society with completely different values; there's no problem with it. 

I read and I believe I understand your posts.  You didn't present a "religious" argument against gay marriage so this really wasn't addressed to you.  However, to respond to your post, we are talking specifically about the United States in this thread (at least I was) so I'll stick to that frame of reference.  The right for gay people to marry may not be a "human right," I honestly never contemplated whether it is or not, but it IS a civil rights issue in this country.  What is the constitutional basis for outlawing gay marriage (pertaining to the government, not to religious institutions), premarital sex, or cohabitation?

"Religious" arguments really should not even be entertained due to the separation of church and state in the U.S.  However, I wanted to get people's feelings about the outlawing of other "sinful lifestyles" because I have never heard anyone clamoring to make premarital sex or cohabitation illegal.  So why do people feel like the "sinful lifestyle" of gay marriage deserves to be singled out to be outlawed?

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by red mpls


Yup.  The good old "pick-and-choose."

Maybe one of these anti-gay marriage posters will surprise us and support outlawing premarital sex, cohabitation, etc.

No takers, huh?

Simply re-read my posts and replace GM with the above. If a society wants to outlaw the above, what's "wrong" with it ? I don't view any of the above as infringing on intrinsic human rights either. We already know that none of that will fly in the US, but in a society with completely different values; there's no problem with it. 

I read and I believe I understand your posts.  You didn't present a "religious" argument against gay marriage so this really wasn't addressed to you.  However, to respond to your post, we are talking specifically about the United States in this thread (at least I was) so I'll stick to that frame of reference.  The right for gay people to marry may not be a "human right," I honestly never contemplated whether it is or not, but it IS a civil rights issue in this country.  What is the constitutional basis for outlawing gay marriage (pertaining to the government, not to religious institutions), premarital sex, or cohabitation?

"Religious" arguments really should not even be entertained due to the separation of church and state in the U.S.  However, I wanted to get people's feelings about the outlawing of other "sinful lifestyles" because I have never heard anyone clamoring to make premarital sex or cohabitation illegal.  So why do people feel like the "sinful lifestyle" of gay marriage deserves to be singled out to be outlawed?

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by KidJoke

Originally Posted by spacerace

Originally Posted by KidJoke

im fine with gay marriage, it's just when they adopt kids. That i don't think is right. But thats a whole other discussion.

care to share your reasoning as to why you don't think it's right?

It's a bit late but better late then never. I think the kids suffer because of the parents choices, it's debatable, but it has a lot of effect on the kids. For example a dude that lived on my street had 2 moms and obviously  a dad( didn't live with them). He always tried to hide that fact that he had lesbian parents because of being ridiculed by other kids in the neighborhood and at school. 

You're using the fact that people are bigoted towards homosexuality as support for your argument that homosexual couples shouldn't be allowed to have kids?

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by KidJoke

Originally Posted by spacerace

Originally Posted by KidJoke

im fine with gay marriage, it's just when they adopt kids. That i don't think is right. But thats a whole other discussion.

care to share your reasoning as to why you don't think it's right?

It's a bit late but better late then never. I think the kids suffer because of the parents choices, it's debatable, but it has a lot of effect on the kids. For example a dude that lived on my street had 2 moms and obviously  a dad( didn't live with them). He always tried to hide that fact that he had lesbian parents because of being ridiculed by other kids in the neighborhood and at school. 

You're using the fact that people are bigoted towards homosexuality as support for your argument that homosexual couples shouldn't be allowed to have kids?

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by melofan15

for those that are anti-gay marriage, are you against gay relationships or is the concept of marriage the determining factor in your beliefs?

For me it's the concept of marriage.

   For someone who's always preaching that "give a black man a chance" you making the same argument a slave master wouldve made when blacks were trying to fight for their freedom.

Apples and oranges champ, apples and oranges.  If gay people want to unite, then by all means have a civil union.  However, whether folks on here or anywhere else want to believe it or not the term "marriage" has religion or religious components to it.        
Marriage is also a legal contract, so until you're willing to give up the legal benefits of marriage, it is NOT religious and should not be treated as such. In the United States, your religion should not affect me or anyone else that does not share similar beliefs.

 

[so nyuh shi dae]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by melofan15

for those that are anti-gay marriage, are you against gay relationships or is the concept of marriage the determining factor in your beliefs?

For me it's the concept of marriage.

   For someone who's always preaching that "give a black man a chance" you making the same argument a slave master wouldve made when blacks were trying to fight for their freedom.

Apples and oranges champ, apples and oranges.  If gay people want to unite, then by all means have a civil union.  However, whether folks on here or anywhere else want to believe it or not the term "marriage" has religion or religious components to it.        
Marriage is also a legal contract, so until you're willing to give up the legal benefits of marriage, it is NOT religious and should not be treated as such. In the United States, your religion should not affect me or anyone else that does not share similar beliefs.

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by red mpls


No takers, huh?

Simply re-read my posts and replace GM with the above. If a society wants to outlaw the above, what's "wrong" with it ? I don't view any of the above as infringing on intrinsic human rights either. We already know that none of that will fly in the US, but in a society with completely different values; there's no problem with it. 

I read and I believe I understand your posts.  You didn't present a "religious" argument against gay marriage so this really wasn't addressed to you.  However, to respond to your post, we are talking specifically about the United States in this thread (at least I was) so I'll stick to that frame of reference.  The right for gay people to marry may not be a "human right," I honestly never contemplated whether it is or not, but it IS a civil rights issue in this country.  What is the constitutional basis for outlawing gay marriage (pertaining to the government, not to religious institutions), premarital sex, or cohabitation?

"Religious" arguments really should not even be entertained due to the separation of church and state in the U.S.  However, I wanted to get people's feelings about the outlawing of other "sinful lifestyles" because I have never heard anyone clamoring to make premarital sex or cohabitation illegal.  So why do people feel like the "sinful lifestyle" of gay marriage deserves to be singled out to be outlawed?

Fair enough. 
The constitution doesn't define what exactly constitutes a marriage, so I believe that it would still be up to the people to define as it would be anywhere else. We have laws protecting civil rights, but the issue is whether same sex marriage is a civil right itself. I understand and fully agree with the premise of "equal protection under the law" but this has nothing to do with changing how the state DEFINES what marriage even is. Going back to my polygamy example, if you feel marriage is truly a "civil right", the next question is what are the boundaries & who should then decide what "marriage" is ? Why is polygamy not a civil right ? We obviously recognize there must & are certain definitions in marriage or any legal contract for that matter. I feel that it should ultimately be up to society to define marriage. I don't think the government should arbitrarily amend the definition and pick and choose what it considers a civil right or what encompasses marriage. If through voting and subsequent legislation the definition is expanded to include same sex, that's one thing (as will probably occur in the US). Those opposed are still just as "right" in casting votes against it. 

 

[tkthafm]

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by red mpls


No takers, huh?

Simply re-read my posts and replace GM with the above. If a society wants to outlaw the above, what's "wrong" with it ? I don't view any of the above as infringing on intrinsic human rights either. We already know that none of that will fly in the US, but in a society with completely different values; there's no problem with it. 

I read and I believe I understand your posts.  You didn't present a "religious" argument against gay marriage so this really wasn't addressed to you.  However, to respond to your post, we are talking specifically about the United States in this thread (at least I was) so I'll stick to that frame of reference.  The right for gay people to marry may not be a "human right," I honestly never contemplated whether it is or not, but it IS a civil rights issue in this country.  What is the constitutional basis for outlawing gay marriage (pertaining to the government, not to religious institutions), premarital sex, or cohabitation?

"Religious" arguments really should not even be entertained due to the separation of church and state in the U.S.  However, I wanted to get people's feelings about the outlawing of other "sinful lifestyles" because I have never heard anyone clamoring to make premarital sex or cohabitation illegal.  So why do people feel like the "sinful lifestyle" of gay marriage deserves to be singled out to be outlawed?

Fair enough. 
The constitution doesn't define what exactly constitutes a marriage, so I believe that it would still be up to the people to define as it would be anywhere else. We have laws protecting civil rights, but the issue is whether same sex marriage is a civil right itself. I understand and fully agree with the premise of "equal protection under the law" but this has nothing to do with changing how the state DEFINES what marriage even is. Going back to my polygamy example, if you feel marriage is truly a "civil right", the next question is what are the boundaries & who should then decide what "marriage" is ? Why is polygamy not a civil right ? We obviously recognize there must & are certain definitions in marriage or any legal contract for that matter. I feel that it should ultimately be up to society to define marriage. I don't think the government should arbitrarily amend the definition and pick and choose what it considers a civil right or what encompasses marriage. If through voting and subsequent legislation the definition is expanded to include same sex, that's one thing (as will probably occur in the US). Those opposed are still just as "right" in casting votes against it. 

 

[inine5]

There's nothing wrong with it in general. And there's nothing wrong with being for it or against it as we live in a free country so everyone has the right to whatever their opinion about anything is. The reason why it is still illegal in some places is because the general public may disagree with it, and they view the government as something that represents the people and therefore, the government makes it law for it to be illegal.

 

[inine5]

There's nothing wrong with it in general. And there's nothing wrong with being for it or against it as we live in a free country so everyone has the right to whatever their opinion about anything is. The reason why it is still illegal in some places is because the general public may disagree with it, and they view the government as something that represents the people and therefore, the government makes it law for it to be illegal.

 

[fully calibrated]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkJAyWUE7hwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkJAyWUE7hw

 

[fully calibrated]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkJAyWUE7hwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkJAyWUE7hw

 

[nocomment6]

nothing.

 

[nocomment6]

nothing.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by tkthafm


Simply re-read my posts and replace GM with the above. If a society wants to outlaw the above, what's "wrong" with it ? I don't view any of the above as infringing on intrinsic human rights either. We already know that none of that will fly in the US, but in a society with completely different values; there's no problem with it. 

I read and I believe I understand your posts.  You didn't present a "religious" argument against gay marriage so this really wasn't addressed to you.  However, to respond to your post, we are talking specifically about the United States in this thread (at least I was) so I'll stick to that frame of reference.  The right for gay people to marry may not be a "human right," I honestly never contemplated whether it is or not, but it IS a civil rights issue in this country.  What is the constitutional basis for outlawing gay marriage (pertaining to the government, not to religious institutions), premarital sex, or cohabitation?

"Religious" arguments really should not even be entertained due to the separation of church and state in the U.S.  However, I wanted to get people's feelings about the outlawing of other "sinful lifestyles" because I have never heard anyone clamoring to make premarital sex or cohabitation illegal.  So why do people feel like the "sinful lifestyle" of gay marriage deserves to be singled out to be outlawed?

Fair enough. 
The constitution doesn't define what exactly constitutes a marriage, so I believe that it would still be up to the people to define as it would be anywhere else. We have laws protecting civil rights, but the issue is whether same sex marriage is a civil right itself. I understand and fully agree with the premise of "equal protection under the law" but this has nothing to do with changing how the state DEFINES what marriage even is. Going back to my polygamy example, if you feel marriage is truly a "civil right", the next question is what are the boundaries & who should then decide what "marriage" is ? Why is polygamy not a civil right ? We obviously recognize there must & are certain definitions in marriage or any legal contract for that matter. I feel that it should ultimately be up to society to define marriage. I don't think the government should arbitrarily amend the definition and pick and choose what it considers a civil right or what encompasses marriage. If through voting and subsequent legislation the definition is expanded to include same sex, that's one thing (as will probably occur in the US). Those opposed are still just as "right" in casting votes against it. 

I hear you.  I'm not a constitutional expert or anything but I do believe that this issue would fall under the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause as it seems clear that discrimination is occurring based on sexual orientation.  I'm not sure why it wouldn't?

Aside from that, my contention would be the topic of this thread - why oppose same sex marriage?  If it's for religious reasons then would those same people support outlawing premarital sex and cohabitation?  If not then their hypocritical +%%%* have no basis for being opposed to gay marriage.  I haven't really ever come across any secular reasons for opposition to gay marriage; your posts are as close as I've seen.

 

[-Red-]

Originally Posted by tkthafm

Originally Posted by red mpls

Originally Posted by tkthafm


Simply re-read my posts and replace GM with the above. If a society wants to outlaw the above, what's "wrong" with it ? I don't view any of the above as infringing on intrinsic human rights either. We already know that none of that will fly in the US, but in a society with completely different values; there's no problem with it. 

I read and I believe I understand your posts.  You didn't present a "religious" argument against gay marriage so this really wasn't addressed to you.  However, to respond to your post, we are talking specifically about the United States in this thread (at least I was) so I'll stick to that frame of reference.  The right for gay people to marry may not be a "human right," I honestly never contemplated whether it is or not, but it IS a civil rights issue in this country.  What is the constitutional basis for outlawing gay marriage (pertaining to the government, not to religious institutions), premarital sex, or cohabitation?

"Religious" arguments really should not even be entertained due to the separation of church and state in the U.S.  However, I wanted to get people's feelings about the outlawing of other "sinful lifestyles" because I have never heard anyone clamoring to make premarital sex or cohabitation illegal.  So why do people feel like the "sinful lifestyle" of gay marriage deserves to be singled out to be outlawed?

Fair enough. 
The constitution doesn't define what exactly constitutes a marriage, so I believe that it would still be up to the people to define as it would be anywhere else. We have laws protecting civil rights, but the issue is whether same sex marriage is a civil right itself. I understand and fully agree with the premise of "equal protection under the law" but this has nothing to do with changing how the state DEFINES what marriage even is. Going back to my polygamy example, if you feel marriage is truly a "civil right", the next question is what are the boundaries & who should then decide what "marriage" is ? Why is polygamy not a civil right ? We obviously recognize there must & are certain definitions in marriage or any legal contract for that matter. I feel that it should ultimately be up to society to define marriage. I don't think the government should arbitrarily amend the definition and pick and choose what it considers a civil right or what encompasses marriage. If through voting and subsequent legislation the definition is expanded to include same sex, that's one thing (as will probably occur in the US). Those opposed are still just as "right" in casting votes against it. 

I hear you.  I'm not a constitutional expert or anything but I do believe that this issue would fall under the 14th Amendment Equal Protection Clause as it seems clear that discrimination is occurring based on sexual orientation.  I'm not sure why it wouldn't?

Aside from that, my contention would be the topic of this thread - why oppose same sex marriage?  If it's for religious reasons then would those same people support outlawing premarital sex and cohabitation?  If not then their hypocritical +%%%* have no basis for being opposed to gay marriage.  I haven't really ever come across any secular reasons for opposition to gay marriage; your posts are as close as I've seen.

 

[bilbo07]

theres nothing wrong with it. people get upset because the bible says its wrong. but guess what? there is no god.

 

[bilbo07]

theres nothing wrong with it. people get upset because the bible says its wrong. but guess what? there is no god.