THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

[leavemeglazzies]

You’ve been fooled by one of his chase down blocks that’s shown repeatedly on ESPN and twitter, making it look he’s doing that every game, when really most of the game he’s hiding, getting easily beat off the dribble, and often times not even contesting, then getting mad at Green, Kuzma, or KCP for not being on a guy that he was supposed to be on. Hope that was enough for you.

As usual, LeBron haters have conjecture and hearsay as their form of "evidence", whereas I have the data:

LeBron has the best defensive rating of all Lakers perimeter players.
LeBron has the second best defensive box +/- of Lakers perimeter players after Alex Caruso, who plays 17.8 minutes per game.
LeBron has the second highest defensive win shares on the Lakers after AD.
LeBron is #4 in the league on ESPN's defensive real plus-minus ranking, after Gobert, Beverley and Giannis.

All this on what is considered to be one of the best, if not the best defensive team in the league this season.

 

[IATT]

It's interesting comparing Jordan and Lebron as defenders.


Jordan is a better perimeter defender but not as versatile.

Lebron gives you bonus rim protection, but he's not as competitive and aggressive as Jordan on a night to night basis.




I think for a playoff run, I would lean towards Lebron, the rim protection is the tie breaker


but If you ask me who is going to deliver more defensive value over an 82 game season Ill lean Jordan.

im taking the psychopath

and ain’t like jordan was 6’3

especially when bron has been reluctant to play the 4 when he’s the ideal 4 for today and the possibilities a differing mindset would have for a team.. same for Anthony Davis playing the 5.. and 6ers would be smart to use simmons as their 4

but we see the impact someone like kawhi can have, even with his leg injuries

 

[QU!K]

Lebron didn't dominate his competition like Mike did & his team didn't win like Mike's did but propaganda stays talking about how he's GOAT. HOW SWAY?!!?!

This was pretty dominant

against a team with the greatest regular season record of all-time

 

[friscostylez]

This was pretty dominant

against a team with the greatest regular season record of all-time

lol at you bragging about dominating a sawft jump shooting team with a 6'6 center

 

[leavemeglazzies]

Lebron didn't dominate his competition like Mike did & his team didn't win like Mike's did but propaganda stays talking about how he's GOAT. HOW SWAY?!!?!

It's easier to dominate this kind of competition:

 

[QU!K]

lol at you bragging about dominating a sawft jump shooting team with a 6'6 center

8 straight finals
3 finals mvps
4 mvps

not dominant though.

y’all gotta listen to yourselves.

 

[friscostylez]

It's easier to dominate this kind of competition:

let's be serious...the real finals for Mike was during the ECF

 

[friscostylez]

9 straight finals
3 finals mvps
4 mvps

not dominant though.

y’all gotta listen to yourselves.

lol at your comprehension skills. quote me where i said not dominant

 

[leavemeglazzies]

let's be serious...the real finals for Mike was during the ECF

Which eastern conference team who failed to win the title in 1994 and 1995 the two years Jordan wasn't in the finals are you talking about exactly?

 

[wavycrocket]

Big ole Facts!

 

[QU!K]

Show me when Jordan dominated a 73-9 team in the finals

 

[storm2006]

*filed under 'This Has Meaning Beyond Just the Topic At Hand'*

No doubt. And I'm guilty of it too. We all are. What's most important is being open and understanding of the opposing viewpoint. Where I struggle with a lot of the "LeBron is the GOAT" positions is that they often includes a lot of qualifiers and 'but's.

As a poster mentioned, he's Top 5 AND still playing. Based on his resume and those in the conversation, we should let the smoke clear before beginning GOAT discussions. To BIG LEEMELONE 's point ,all calling him the GOAT now does is make it such that if he does actually win one or more championships folks will start saying "Clear Cut GOAT"

 

[QU!K]

True or false

2015-2016 Golden State Warriors are a better than any team Jordan ever beat in a playoff series.

 

[storm2006]

9 straight finals

Show me when Jordan dominated a 73-9 team in the finals

Jordan was regular season MVP on a 72-10 team that won the Finals where he was also awarded MVP

 

[wavycrocket]

No doubt. And I'm guilty of it too. We all are. What's most important is being open and understanding of the opposing viewpoint. Where I struggle with a lot of the "LeBron is the GOAT" positions is that they often includes a lot of qualifiers and 'but's.

As a poster mentioned, he's Top 5 AND still playing. Based on his resume and those in the conversation, we should let the smoke clear before beginning GOAT discussions. To BIG LEEMELONE 's point ,all calling him the GOAT now does is make it such that if he does actually win one or more championships folks will start saying "Clear Cut GOAT"

I said in the other thread....the last dance has been great for LeBron too. And he knows it . Word association. It hyperdrives a conversation that should really be dead, until further notice .

Perk and Them are trolling . And Bron knows it too. He tweeted something to perk like...”I see what you’re doing, keep up the good work...with laughing emojis” . The visceral reaction to it...the online arguments, convo etc that comes from it....is a positive.

 

[QU!K]

Jordan was regular season MVP on a 72-10 team that won the Finals where he was also awarded MVP

8 my bad.

I’m discussing competition. Jordan never faced better competition than the 73-9 Warriors.

 

[HIM]

I sometimes forget Jordan only played 6 seasons in the league

 

[nerw32]

I guess this points to a bigger issue with the GOAT conversation.

In a team sport, you can absolutely be the greatest individual and still lose. So I don’t know how much weight that label actually carries.

Like Jordan was very clearly the best player in the league before ‘91 but it didn’t matter until Scottie & Horace grew up, Horace later replaced by Rodman after Chicago got eliminated by a team with a Horace/Shaq frontcourt.

Shaq was next up after Jordan retired & Hakeem/Malone getting older. Wouldn’t have happened if Kobe never grew up.

Yeah it's a team sport but you are making my argument easier. Player mobility was non-existent for the most part in the 90's so how is it in the era where player mobility is easier than ever Lebron was/is having such a hard time getting guys to come play with him? Lebron has also NEVER been dominant defensively Jordan was elite his entire career defensively. Those chase blocks have everyone gassed up but Bron is a trash on ball defender.

Also things like this from a player in their prime is not goat like behavior. Imagine Jordan being this mad because Byron Russel checked into the game in the finals.

 

[MVP]

let's be serious...the real finals for Mike was during the ECF

I already went through this once. Mike had more competition by far in the East. Bron benefited tremendously from basically all the great players in the league being in the opposite conference and him after that first stint having multiple other great players from that same weak East on his team.

The funny thing about the media is that they cover themselves with their Bron slurpage by painting him as some kind of underdog despite being basically the defacto GM in every place since he originally left Cleveland, there aren't any expectations. If he loses, well that was supposed to happen, if he does win it's the greatest thing ever. They believe in the idea of Lebron more than actual Lebron.

 

[wavycrocket]

Show me when Jordan dominated a 73-9 team in the finals

Well....if we were to do it by NT breakdown. A look at the 15-16 Warriors.

PG: Soft, playoff choker. 0 FMVP. Scared of Van Fleet. Can’t carry a team.
SG: ___nobody says anything bad about Klay.
SF: Now journeyman. hasn’t shaved since 2019. Mister 5/32 on wide open shots.
PF: Backpack jumpshot. Donkey. Overrated.
C: Bogut/Ezili

Bench:

Iggy
Livingston
Speights
Barbosa
Verajao
Ian Clark

 

[friscostylez]

Which eastern conference team who failed to win the title in 1994 and 1995 the two years Jordan wasn't in the finals are you talking about exactly?

lol do you really want to play this game? what's the Leastern Conference finals record since L3-6ron been in the league?

Show me when Jordan dominated a 73-9 team in the finals

Jordan was the leader on a 72-10 team that won a finals...

True or false

2015-2016 Golden State Warriors are a better than any team Jordan ever beat in a playoff series.

what kinda broscience do you want if someone makes a claim either way?

 

[QU!K]

For the record I don’t think Lebron will ever pass Jordan. Lebron would have to win 3 straight titles to even be in the discussion.

 

[MVP]

I sometimes forget Jordan only played 6 seasons in the league

I'm not a mathematician, but I can use a calculator and 6/15 is 40% and 3/17 is 18%.

And of course you can't get better than 100%.

By no measure does Lebby have a case for GOAT status. At best he should be at #4 all time.

 

[QU!K]

lol do you really want to play this game? what's the Leastern Conference finals record since L3-6ron been in the league?




Jordan was the leader on a 72-10 team that won a finals...






what kinda broscience do you want if someone makes a claim either way?

My point is Jordan never faced better opposition than those Warriors.

 

[storm2006]

I sometimes forget Jordan only played 6 seasons in the league

Perfect example. The championship results could be used both ways.

MJ Advocate/Bron Denier: Sure Jordan needed help too but once he got it, he never lost. Bron with help has lost as many times as Jordan has won

LeBron Advocate/MJ Denier: Bron made it to the FInals without help and when finally got some, he made it to the Finals more times than Michael. Plus basketball is a team sport and LeBron's teams were underdogs that faced far superior competition in the Finals.