THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by BIG LEEMELONE,
- Start date
- Status
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
I've heard this argument before, I actually use to believe it but as i've gotten older i think it's pretty silly.
2000 shaq is dominating any center in history save for Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell.
a non prime 22 year old Shaq put up 27, 12 and 6 on Hakeem,
Hakeem is easy money top 5 defender of all time. If Hakeem can't slow down a young Shaq
Who the hell is stoppin 2000 Shaq, who was even bigger, more skilled and a better passer.
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
Ive said this before, but take Ronny Seikley
poison him with led as a child,
have inhale mercury from terrible pre clean air act america pollution,
play in chuck taylors
from birth until it was time to play basketball and how good do you think he would do?
- 80,694
- 55,639
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2012
You bring up solid claims. However I'll say this about SAS and Pops-- I feel like Pops made it a point to try to stifle Shaq and him being the #1 objective (not an Earth shattering strategy but yeah) all while having the personnel to make it happen
- 32,839
- 81,411
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2013
It's 1 am and I'm slicing apples for a cake. Quarantine has officially taken my mind.
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
I really don't think it's even slightly close,
it's either 70's Kareem or 2000 Shaq for greatest offensive center.
I can't think of even a semi plausible argument for anyone else.
it's either 70's Kareem or 2000 Shaq for greatest offensive center.
I can't think of even a semi plausible argument for anyone else.
Last edited:
- 73,450
- 100,264
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2012
- 4,581
- 6,793
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
of course no one would win 11 rings now there were only 8 teams in the league.
the rules were totally different, players didn't access to basketball training and skill development at young ages,
but to me this makes them more impressive not less,
it was league that where you had to rely on your natural athleticism and feel for the game and isn't that a truer test of your talent level?
like Stromile Swift had access to all this training, was able to watch way more basketball, absorb way more coaching, and he turned out as a low IQ energy big.
If I took him back to 1950's america,
stripped him off that knowledge,
gave him the child hood diet of a 1950's black america pre civil rights
and added in a dash of led poisoning,
how good of an NBA player do you think he would have been?
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
Cousy got tried for witchcraft once cause he dribbled with his left hand
they dribbled that way for a reason, carrying was super strict.
your hand needed to be directly on top of the ball when dribbling any slight deviation would elicit a carrying call.
a crossover is less effective when you can't have any part of your hand on the side of the ball.
You can see it in the way for example Magic Johnson dribbled you can see he grew up with strict carrying rules, vs. Allen Iverson who grew up as the rules loosened.
- 18,066
- 21,650
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2011
Cap was damn near 40 when he saw Hakeem and got the same 27 a night, equal opportunity work to the whole Rockets frontline. You move Hakeem to his prime, shave a decade off KAJ and I don’t think the result would be too much different.
who’s stopping 2000 Shaq, who’s stopping KAJ in any damn year
Splitting hairs obviously
- 29,035
- 64,022
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2001
Bro....you literally had to poison a player as a child and change the composition of the air he was breathing in order to make your comparison.That is worse logic than anything pulled out in the “MJ would average 40-45PPG in this era” discussion. Maybe that’s a sign it’s a comparison that shouldn’t be made
- 61,426
- 132,976
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2003
Magic is a whole 2 years older than zeke man and a year older than sleepy Floyd. They grew up with looser carrying rules?
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
Bro....you literally had to poison a player as a child and change the composition of the air he was breathing in order to make your comparison.That is worse logic than anything pulled out than anything used in the “MJ would average 40-45PPG in this era” discussion. Maybe that’s a sign it’s a comparison that shouldn’t be made
1. How is it worse logic, you wan't to take all advatages of the current era to make 50's players look bad by comparing them to Ronny or stromile. Im taking using your logic and applying it in reverse.
2. There is literally zero argument that can justify the idea that Jordan would average 45 ppg.
there are plenty of compelling arguments to belive that Bill Russel is an all time great in any era.
3. I disagree, I like solving hard problems.
- 22,188
- 63,106
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2017
Bro....you literally had to poison a player as a child and change the composition of the air he was breathing in order to make your comparison.
- 4,581
- 6,793
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2019
Quality content in here
- 20,983
- 31,022
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
I'm not even saying that you're necessarily wrong,
But what I am saying that the things you mentioned, the rules conditions, climate, the amount of teams in the league, are all all the reasons why projecting Russell into a modern game is a hurdle that seems to large to jump.
The game is so different, that anything aside from Russell's athleticism I can't even try to translate.
Everything you said about Russell may be right, but he didn't play basketball as we know it to be, in an 8 team league he hoarded all of the all stars, and while he was obviously elite during that time, I'm not taking anyone who wins 11 rings in the context that I just mentioned, seriously. 11 Rings, with all of the all stars on his teams, playing a sport that hardly resembles basketball? Yeah I have to pass.
You can make the argument that if he wasn't fed poison in his cereal that he would translate to this era, but he could just be DeAndre Jordan or Rudy Gobert. He didn't show much of an offensive arsenal in that era
In an 8 team league in which it didn't resemble modern basketball at all, everything aside from Russell's physical profile I take with a grain of salt if I take it out of the 60's context.
- 67,622
- 78,679
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2011
Bro, Scottie Pippen ***** made. He should've never signed off on his likeness being used in this doc. His history looking terrible
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
in an era without the internet, innovations don't spread nearly as fast.
Zeke was a key innovator in dribbling, influenced a whole generation of ball handlers that came after him.
Magic Johnson dribbled much closer to text book than Isiah.
The palming rules just slowly loosened over time, some guys pushed the envelope more than others, so it's not like the NBA just on day told everyone you can carry now.
- 11,921
- 13,432
- Joined
- Jul 8, 2013
I get what both sides are saying but I think Bill Rusell would have been an all timer no matter the era. Of course its hard splitting hairs and comparing era's and all that.
I just think that the older era players should be given more respect at least being innovators. No one thought them how to shoot , dribble, defend yet they were ahead of the curve.
I just think that the older era players should be given more respect at least being innovators. No one thought them how to shoot , dribble, defend yet they were ahead of the curve.
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
yeah but at certain point we can just watch film he's much more mobile than a rudy gay and deandre, you look at that on film anyone with half a basketball brain can see that.
and Deandre Jordan has relativity kinda poor defensive instincts that he use to make up for with physical tools and that's with tons of training and film study.
given that Bill Russel had no sophisticated basketball training, and was able to lead such dominant defenses and eventually coach dominant defenses.
I just don't think it's that much of a jump to say Bill Russell probably had an elite defensive instincts and to me. Freak physical tools, all time great basketball instincts i don't know how that's not elite in any era.
Here's the thing, if Bill Russell was like Mark Eaton, and like was this big heavy dude who stood in one place, and literally could not play in todays NBA, than yah maybe i'd agree. But I watch film, and he looks like totally modern type of player who would dominate any era.
- 35,255
- 26,908
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2005
Harlem Globetrotters influenced ball handling more than anyone else
- 29,035
- 64,022
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2001
Bill Russell is a good little player considering his era. There’s nothing wrong with that.
- 20,983
- 31,022
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2016
Bill Russell averaged 23 rebounds for his career
He averaged 42 minutes a game for his career
He also averaged 15 a game on 42% shooting for his career. (Big yikes)
All of this is insane. These stats are comical. WTF is this. This isn't even real basketball. Based on what I've read and watched, he had a fantastic physical profile, but everyone shot blindfolded and were poisoned while playing so we don't even know how great of a defender he was and on top of that,
It wasn't even close to the sport we know as basketball now. I appreciate Russell and wilt's careers for what they were, but being a physical specimen obviously got you much father than it would in any other era of hoops.
He averaged 42 minutes a game for his career
He also averaged 15 a game on 42% shooting for his career. (Big yikes)
All of this is insane. These stats are comical. WTF is this. This isn't even real basketball. Based on what I've read and watched, he had a fantastic physical profile, but everyone shot blindfolded and were poisoned while playing so we don't even know how great of a defender he was and on top of that,
It wasn't even close to the sport we know as basketball now. I appreciate Russell and wilt's careers for what they were, but being a physical specimen obviously got you much father than it would in any other era of hoops.
- 33,608
- 28,911
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
this is really ultimately all im saying.
Given the time, the rules, the environment, the 50's dudes were incredible athletes.
If you wanna tell me john q bench warmer couldn't play sure. or you want to tell me some giant slow 7 footer couldn't play yah of course.
but I don't really understand how people watch film of bill russell and think naaaaah couldn't dominate in today's NBA.
- Status
