THEE OFFICIAL 2019-2020 NBA OFFSEASON THREAD: VICTORY LAP

ballinsam23 · May 11, 2020

Dudes just mad players of the 80s were built differently than their favorites today. Imagine any big today wearing Converses and playing 40 minutes a game.

osh kosh bosh · May 11, 2020

P C H said:
Bill Russell averaged 23 rebounds for his career

He averaged 42 minutes a game for his career

He also averaged 15 a game on 42% shooting for his career. (Big yikes)

All of this is insane. These stats are comical. WTF is this. This isn't even real basketball. Based on what I've read and watched, he had a fantastic physical profile, but everyone shot blindfolded and were poisoned while playing so we don't even know how great of a defender he was and on top of that,

It wasn't even close to the sport we know as basketball now. I appreciate Russell and wilt's careers for what they were, but being a physical specimen obviously got you much father than it would in any other era of hoops.

yah but all that is easy to translate.

the rebound numbers, were based on the pace of play.

the shooting percentages were based on no 3 point line, and small lane. his offense was actually above average for the time.

P C H · May 11, 2020

osh kosh bosh said:
yeah but at certain point we can just watch film he's much more mobile than a rudy gay and deandre, you look at that on film anyone with half a basketball brain can see that.

and Deandre Jordan has relativity kinda poor defensive instincts that he use to make up for with physical tools and that's with tons of training and film study.

given that Bill Russel had no sophisticated basketball training, and was able to lead such dominant defenses and eventually coach dominant defenses.

I just don't think it's that much of a jump to say Bill Russell probably had an elite defensive instincts and to me. Freak physical tools, all time great basketball instincts i don't know how that's not elite in any era.

Here's the thing, if Bill Russell was like Mark Eaton, and like was this big heavy dude who stood in one place, and literally could not play in todays NBA, than yah maybe i'd agree. But I watch film, and he looks like totally modern type of player who would dominate any era.

Dominate is a stretch, he averaged 15 a game on 42 percent shooting and maybe I haven't seen it (srs) but I find it incredibly hard for someone who was that limited as an offensive player then, to even come close to dominating the game now.

And the instincts are...ehh. I guess? No one could shoot or dribble :lol:

Truthfully, it seems like he would fit right in as a modern playable big given his instincts motor and physical profile, but anything other than that is a reach for me.

Zo gif · May 11, 2020

Bill Russell has a dope trophy

osh kosh bosh · May 11, 2020

like to me guys like Mark Eaton is a much better example of a dude who literally wouldn't be in the league today.

dmbrhs · May 11, 2020

I hate this crap.

osh kosh bosh · May 11, 2020

P C H said:
Dominate is a stretch, he averaged 15 a game on 42 percent shooting and maybe I haven't seen it (srs) but I find it incredibly hard for someone who was that limited as an offensive player then, to even come close to dominating the game now.

And the instincts are...ehh. I guess? No one could shoot or dribble

Truthfully, it seems like he would fit right in as a modern playable big given his instincts motor and physical profile, but anything other than that is a reach for me.

just because of the 3 point line and the different rules, yes I agree he wouldn't be the best player in the league anymore, because it's danm near impossible for any center to be the best player in the elague.

but to me that's just a function of the rules, not Bill Russell skill.

we change the rules back to 1950's rules and the best players change.

it's why in the goat conversation I always say you need to specify the rule set. because under pre 3 point line rules no way is a center not the GOAT.

ill steelo · May 11, 2020

storm2006 said:
Bill Russell is a good little player.

P C H said:
Bill Russell averaged 23 rebounds for his career

He averaged 42 minutes a game for his career

He also averaged 15 a game on 42% shooting for his career. (Big yikes)

All of this is insane. These stats are comical. WTF is this. This isn't even real basketball.

osh kosh bosh · May 11, 2020

ballinsam23 said:
Harlem Globetrotters influenced ball handling more than anyone else

you're probably right, given the lack tv broadcasts I bet the globetrotters had a giant influence expanding the zone of what was possible.

P C H · May 11, 2020

osh kosh bosh said:
yah but all that is easy to translate.

the rebound numbers, were based on the pace of play.

the shooting percentages were based on no 3 point line, and small lane. his offense was actually above average for the time.

How can you watch this and say it's easy to translate. This is where I'm at with it man lol this is just too far away from actual basketball for me to take anything or anyone from this era serious.

YOU THINK THESE FOOLS ARE MISSING BECAUSE THEY ARE PLAYING TOO FAST?! Hell nah :rofl:

The play that starts at 3:35 where the dude falls, gets up with the ball and just aimlessly throws it on the backboard is hilarious lol

dmbrhs · May 11, 2020

Sorry, catching up because we've reached the Sonics portion of the doc. George Karl was a bad playoffs coach. And, exceptionally bad at times (1994/95 Sonics, hello!). But, he took three different franchises to conference finals (Sonics multiple times, '01 Bucks, '09 Nuggets). You can do worse, overall.

P C H · May 11, 2020

pums said:
I get what both sides are saying but I think Bill Rusell would have been an all timer no matter the era. Of course its hard splitting hairs and comparing era's and all that.

I just think that the older era players should be given more respect at least being innovators. No one thought them how to shoot , dribble, defend yet they were ahead of the curve.

I 100% appreciate them for what they were, but like,

Its not basketball.

Them being the forefathers of the game is great, but you aren't going to convince me that Russell is just gonna easily translate to current NBA after what I just saw. Nah man.

pums · May 11, 2020

It's not about those players.

Its about Bill Russell
The facts on him were that he was an extremely agile and athletic 6'10.
He had hops and fluid hips. Despite playing in chucks and no real proper training.
Had elite for that time defensive instincts .

No the question is would it be able to translate. If you give him modern training and all that. Of course, that would be impossible to answer so I also see why it would be hard to evaluate him. Much more questions are asked the deeper you go back in NBA history.

osh kosh bosh · May 11, 2020

I can't sit here and tell you what Russels exact numbers would be but I think it's pretty easy to say he'd be an elite defender, and a lob

P C H said:
How can you watch this and say it's easy to translate. This is where I'm at with it man lol this is just too far away from actual basketball for me to take anything or anyone from this era serious.

YOU THINK THESE FOOLS ARE MISSING BECAUSE THEY ARE PLAYING TOO FAST?! Hell nah

The play that starts at 3:35 where the dude falls, gets up with the ball and just aimlessly throws it on the backboard is hilarious lol

i was saying the numbers are easy to translate, you can literally do it with math. we know how fast they played and how many available rebounds there were.

style of play is another matter.
the way the game was played back then it was essentially an endurance sport, run as fast as you can and get up as many shots as possible.

im not sitting here and telling you i can predict bills exact PPG. Im telling you it's pretty easy to see he'd be an absolutely insane defender now and in any era.

and given his instincts and athleticms, im sure he can catch a lob and make some passes on a short roll to be solid enough on offense.

i personally don't think it's that much of a strtch.

osh kosh bosh · May 11, 2020

someone like say Bob Cousey is a tougher stretch but I think he was pretty overrated, given his stats and team performance.

Zo gif · May 11, 2020

Ready to hear mike duck and dodge past this next episode

P C H · May 11, 2020

pums said:
It's not about those players.

Its about Bill Russell
The facts on him were that he was an extremely agile and athletic 6'10.
He had hops and fluid hips. Despite playing in chucks and no real proper training.
Had elite for that time defensive instincts .

No the question is would it be able to translate. If you give him modern training and all that. Of course, that would be impossible to answer so I also see why it would be hard to evaluate him. Much more questions are asked the deeper you go back in NBA history.

I don't disagree, like I said his physical profile is fantastic

But I just watched some of the game that Russell was in. That's not close to basketball and for me, that era that I just watched is so far removed from what I know basketball to be, that projecting Bill Russell to still be a top 10 player OF ALL TIME is a huge stretch.

It doesn't really matter to me if you give someone like Russell modern training and dieting because I don't even know what his baseline is other than his physical profile, I take almost none of the actual basketball stuff seriously. Just too far away.

addict4sneakers · May 11, 2020

P C H said:
How can you watch this and say it's easy to translate. This is where I'm at with it man lol this is just too far away from actual basketball for me to take anything or anyone from this era serious.

YOU THINK THESE FOOLS ARE MISSING BECAUSE THEY ARE PLAYING TOO FAST?! Hell nah

The play that starts at 3:35 where the dude falls, gets up with the ball and just aimlessly throws it on the backboard is hilarious lol

9:03 man wtf.

yeah man I’m not rolling

dmbrhs · May 11, 2020

True story: Shawn Kemp received three Finals MVP votes in 1996. That's how poorly Jordan played. Facts, ya'll. MJ got six votes, Rodman got two. GP was all up in MJ's business.

storm2006 · May 11, 2020

osh kosh bosh said:
I think it's pretty easy to say he'd be an elite defender, and a lob

So you’re saying Bill Russell is just American slightly more athletic Rudy Gobert with lead poisoning, Mercury filled lungs and Chuck Taylors?

DsLee · May 11, 2020

dmbrhs said:
I hate this crap.

I rock with the WNBA but people like this got to sit tf down. Only 12 teams in WNBA and some of the best female players in the world have skipped entire seasons because they get paid more in Europe.

When we’re talking about bringing hoops back to Seattle, 75% of people that actually care about sports will automatically respond by saying they miss the Sonics. It’s a certain demographic that jump to becoming offended and put on a cape for the Storm, but I’m not going there...

osh kosh bosh · May 11, 2020

storm2006 said:
So you’re saying Bill Russell is just American slightly more athletic Rudy Gobert with lead poisoning, Mercury filled lungs and Chuck Taylors?

No I'm saying he's a way way way more atheltic and move Rudy Robert with better basketball is and better passing.

And if he access to modern training and skill development who knows how much better he'd be on offense.

ill steelo · May 11, 2020

I will say, Bill & Wilt numbers were so comically exaggerated that they were very clearly ahead of their time. I don’t think it’s too farfetched to say they could play at any time, even given the rudimentary nature of the game back then.

Even with the film, you do wonder about Bill’s size translating. 215 at the 5 raises an eyebrow in any era before now. But the box scores from those Wilt matchups show that Wilt’s points weren’t that much higher than his shots, so Bill was finding a way, idk.

storm2006 · May 11, 2020

osh kosh bosh said:
No I'm saying he's a way way way more atheltic and move Rudy Robert with better basketball is and better passing.

And if he access to modern training and skill development who knows how much better he'd be on offense.

So you’re saying Bill Russell is Dark Skin Anthony Davis?

addict4sneakers · May 11, 2020

ill steelo said:
I will say, Bill & Wilt numbers were so comically exaggerated that they were very clearly ahead of their time. I don’t think it’s too farfetched to say they could play at any time, even given the rudimentary nature of the game back then.

Even with the film, you do wonder about Bill’s size translating. 215 at the 5 raises an eyebrow in any era before now. But the box scores from those Wilt matchups show that Wilt’s points weren’t that much higher than his shots, so idk.