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Carlos Tevez?
The Ultimate Soccer Thread 2011-2012. VOL 2 (EPL,LFP, SERIE A, BUND, ETC.)
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by Beans,
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Tevez ain't going to Germany.
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Extremely logical if you look beyond the actual result. City's loss to Bayern Munich showcased a complete lack of CL experience, not to mention this was only in the group stage. City failed to finish crucial chances early and then got completely exposed on the counterattack courtesy of Ribery (predominantly). Mancini is a relatively inexperienced CL manager with little to no success in the past (ex. Inter). A match against Bayern he should have played conservatively and more traditionally to build his squad's confidence, instead Mancini goes against the grain and City gets exposed. The Tevez situation didn't help matters either. Plus lack of control with Dzeko and Zabaleta. Managing the PL and CL are two completely different animals. What's going to happen in the knockout stage?
Another point you're failing to see is Chelsea and Manchester United (more so) have immense CL experience and success. That does wonders going forward in the competition. You're focusing way too much on current form and not enough on recent past history. You give so much credit to Barca yet you forget United were just runner-ups to your beloved Catalans. I don't think losing VDS and Scholes completely diminishes their CL dreams for this campaign. Cleverley and De Gea are more than capable replacements not to mention Young's play out wide and Phil Jones serving as a rock in the middle of the defense with recent injuries to Ferdinand and Vidic. Welbeck can also be a major offensive force in the competition. The most glaring difference between City and United is the manager, SAF. Fergie knows how to prepare his squad for CL competitions and his track record backs that up. Lastly, you constantly refer to United's "midfield problems." Is that based on one loss to City? Most would believe United's problems in that match lie defensively and specifically with Jonny Evans' red card, not the midfield which actually controlled most of the tempo first-half. Watch the match again, Super Mario's goal came against the run of play. At that time Manchester United was controlling possession in the midfield that you seemingly perceive as weak. Cleverley and Anderson (already has substantial European experience) are talented, young players ready to make CL contributions. Pogba is another rising star in United's camp and could be ready for first-team action by the end of this year or possibly early next season. JSP and Giggs are crafty veterans that can also play in the middle. Sneijder would be a nice luxury, but honestly Chelsea needs a CAM more.
I'll speak more briefly on Chelsea. I do feel they need Sneijder or Modric to take them to the next level. They have an abundance of attacking options but are still adjusting to a new playing style. AVB has tremendous CL experience under Mourinho and could have a legendary managing career when it's all said and done. At the moment Chelsea's form is hurt by a lack of balance between going forward in AVB's 4-3-3 and maintaining strong defensive organization. Although Bosingwa seems to be having a resurgent contract year, Van der Wiel or Pereira could have helped defensively. Essien's return could boost the club second-half of the season. Their biggest need is clearly a CAM like Sneijder who can also take set pieces when Lampard and Drogba leave Stamford Bridge. A good midfielder in the middle of the park would help tremendously to unlock defenses and provide service for Torres, Mata, etc.
I do agree with the sentiment that you guys seem to share about English clubs having more of an outside chance than the favorites Madrid or Barca. Just remember it's not impossible, the CL competition is very unpredictable. I've got Madrid and Barca (1A and 1B) followed by United, Bayern Munich, and Chelsea.
AboveLegit, your five points about Barca being favorites contradicts the point you made earlier about United and Chelsea's "current form." They haven't quite looked like the squad from last year. Can you honestly tell me Barcelona is in good or great form right now (domestically and CL group)?
Surely you must be exaggerating as a FCB supporter with that starting 11 comment. Casillas is clearly better than Valdes. Abidal is aging and Marcelo is a better option at this point in their careers (same with Pepe and Puyol to a lesser extent). Most would agree Ozil is a top-10 player in the world. Ramos and Alves are very close for the title of best RB in the world. Xabi Alonso and Busquets?
Come on now, be fair.
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Absolutely agree with everything you said regarding Chelsea. We've needed a creative midfielder who can create a strong link between the attack and the midfield. I've been preaching for Sneijder for the past two seasons, he just seems he like he'd fit in perfectly with the squad. In addition to that though, I still believe there's a necessity for a centreback. Ivanovic is flexible and can take care of the rightback position (I'm still not a big fan of Bosingwa and probably never will be, just a very questionable defender) and David Luiz is still raw as a player although he's shown signs of improvement while Alex's play has seemingly declined and AVB doesn't really have much faith in him. Losing Carvalho took a bigger toll than expected and we just seem to be missing a savvy veteran that can strengthen our backfield.
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Originally Posted by DLo13
Tevez ain't going to Germany.
this no way in hell
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T'was an ironic joke considering he refused to play for City when they were playing Bayern. Thought the emoticon would give it away, guess not.Originally Posted by IMASOLEMAN18
Originally Posted by DLo13
Tevez ain't going to Germany.
this no way in hell
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Your points are legit but I think a similar case can be made for Madrid. Their team is littered with world class talent throughout. They may not have the same midfield chemistry and creativity that Barca has but they are still a very potent force. When they're firing on all cylinders it's a pretty ugly machine to try to deal with. And they have closed the gap in their head to head matches with Barca. I'd still favor Barca in the CL against Madrid but I don't think it's a very wide gap at all. An extraordinary game from one or more of the Madrid stars coupled with a pedestrian game from a few Barca studs could be the difference. Ozil has developed wonderfully, Ronaldo is a stud, Higuain and Benzema are playing well, Kaka is starting to look somewhat like his old self, and their defense is solid. You cannot count out a team with this much talent.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
That's why I said 'perhaps' in regard to being the third best side.
Barca are the favorites for the CL and will remain so until they are defeated. Using results against inferior competition is meaningless when trying to predict a cup tournament; all that matters is how the elite sides stack up against each other, player by player, and team by team. Madrid are obviously the biggest threat, but I believe a significant gap remains. I could probably write an essay, but 5 points to keep it brief:
-Lionel Messi
-An in-form Madrid were unable to beat Barca in the Super Cup, and both of Real's goals in the latter leg were cheap.
-The strength of midfield is always key in a two-leg format, as ability to retain possession, dictate tempo, and generally execute a manager's game plan is largely dependent on the players who to put it simply, spend the most time on the ball. Barca's midfield is the strongest in Europe, and it isn't close. Barca were able to maintain 60/40 possession, despite Real's fitness and Mou fielding his strongest side in the SuperCup.
-Madrid's conductor, Xabi Alonso, is only so ordinary against the likes of Xavi and Iniesta. His relative lack of mobility drastically reduces his effectiveness and influence.
- The only footballers for Real who would crack FCB's starting XI are Ronaldo and maybe Casillas. Surely the team with the most individual talent, along with unmatched chemistry is the clear favorite?
And yes, as an FCB supporter I'm aware this post may come off as rather obnoxious/irksome.For that, I apologize.
And on top of all this, the man who prevented Barca from an unprecedented CL 3-peat is at the helm in Madrid, and he's basically got a limitless budget with which to work in trying to put together a squad to beat Barca. This is the sole mission of perhaps the brightest soccer mind on earth.
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Neymar is staying with Santos until 2014.
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I don't know if I believe him, lol. Money talks and some teams are prepared to throw an ample amount of it. Isn't it a common occurrence where a player says he's going to stay and ends up leaving shortly after? I don't know, maybe I'm being a bit optimistic as a European football fan wanting to see him play in a more competitive atmosphere but I just don't know if I buy it from him.
And how the hell is he my age and has a son? Gotta bag up that johnson, son.
ham city
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Why because its in ink?
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I'm not sure if you guys have seen van der Wiel play defensively, but I would rather have Bosingwa, at the moment.
The other problem with the AVB 4-3-3 is that they have Sturridge/Anelka playing in the Hulk role, where it is more of an SS than an out and out winger on the right, and obviously, neither player is Hulk, and with the style of play that both of them have, they have trouble linking up with the CF. I am not expecting Chelsea to win (or really challenge) for any trophies this year, so as long as they qualify for the CL, I am happy as long as we begin to progress and grasp AVB's style of play.
While we are on the subject of AVB's style, I do question why they play such a high line, without pressure on the ball. I don't know if that is something the team isn't doing or if this is something that AVB believes in stylistically. Either way it's puzzling, and part of the reason for a lot of the issues defensively.
The other problem with the AVB 4-3-3 is that they have Sturridge/Anelka playing in the Hulk role, where it is more of an SS than an out and out winger on the right, and obviously, neither player is Hulk, and with the style of play that both of them have, they have trouble linking up with the CF. I am not expecting Chelsea to win (or really challenge) for any trophies this year, so as long as they qualify for the CL, I am happy as long as we begin to progress and grasp AVB's style of play.
While we are on the subject of AVB's style, I do question why they play such a high line, without pressure on the ball. I don't know if that is something the team isn't doing or if this is something that AVB believes in stylistically. Either way it's puzzling, and part of the reason for a lot of the issues defensively.
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Well noted, I too have noticed that and it is a bit concerning.
And for the record, I'd rather have Gary Cahill than anyone else and just push Ivanovic to the right. Rumors are swirling that Chelsea might bid, who knows?
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ChampCruThik wrote:
Extremely logical if you look beyond the actual result. City's loss to Bayern Munich showcased a complete lack of CL experience, not to mention this was only in the group stage. City failed to finish crucial chances early and then got completely exposed on the counterattack courtesy of Ribery (predominantly). Mancini is a relatively inexperienced CL manager with little to no success in the past (ex. Inter). A match against Bayern he should have played conservatively and more traditionally to build his squad's confidence, instead Mancini goes against the grain and City gets exposed. The Tevez situation didn't help matters either. Plus lack of control with Dzeko and Zabaleta. Managing the PL and CL are two completely different animals. What's going to happen in the knockout stage?
Another point you're failing to see is Chelsea and Manchester United (more so) have immense CL experience and success. That does wonders going forward in the competition. You're focusing way too much on current form and not enough on recent past history. You give so much credit to Barca yet you forget United were just runner-ups to your beloved Catalans. I don't think losing VDS and Scholes completely diminishes their CL dreams for this campaign. Cleverley and De Gea are more than capable replacements not to mention Young's play out wide and Phil Jones serving as a rock in the middle of the defense with recent injuries to Ferdinand and Vidic. Welbeck can also be a major offensive force in the competition. The most glaring difference between City and United is the manager, SAF. Fergie knows how to prepare his squad for CL competitions and his track record backs that up. Lastly, you constantly refer to United's "midfield problems." Is that based on one loss to City? Most would believe United's problems in that match lie defensively and specifically with Jonny Evans' red card, not the midfield which actually controlled most of the tempo first-half. Watch the match again, Super Mario's goal came against the run of play. At that time Manchester United was controlling possession in the midfield that you seemingly perceive as weak. Cleverley and Anderson (already has substantial European experience) are talented, young players ready to make CL contributions. Pogba is another rising star in United's camp and could be ready for first-team action by the end of this year or possibly early next season. JSP and Giggs are crafty veterans that can also play in the middle. Sneijder would be a nice luxury, but honestly Chelsea needs a CAM more.
I'll speak more briefly on Chelsea. I do feel they need Sneijder or Modric to take them to the next level. They have an abundance of attacking options but are still adjusting to a new playing style. AVB has tremendous CL experience under Mourinho and could have a legendary managing career when it's all said and done. At the moment Chelsea's form is hurt by a lack of balance between going forward in AVB's 4-3-3 and maintaining strong defensive organization. Although Bosingwa seems to be having a resurgent contract year, Van der Wiel or Pereira could have helped defensively. Essien's return could boost the club second-half of the season. Their biggest need is clearly a CAM like Sneijder who can also take set pieces when Lampard and Drogba leave Stamford Bridge. A good midfielder in the middle of the park would help tremendously to unlock defenses and provide service for Torres, Mata, etc.
I do agree with the sentiment that you guys seem to share about English clubs having more of an outside chance than the favorites Madrid or Barca. Just remember it's not impossible, the CL competition is very unpredictable. I've got Madrid and Barca (1A and 1B) followed by United, Bayern Munich, and Chelsea.
AboveLegit, your five points about Barca being favorites contradicts the point you made earlier about United and Chelsea's "current form." They haven't quite looked like the squad from last year. Can you honestly tell me Barcelona is in good or great form right now (domestically and CL group)?
Surely you must be exaggerating as a FCB supporter with that starting 11 comment. Casillas is clearly better than Valdes. Abidal is aging and Marcelo is a better option at this point in their careers (same with Pepe and Puyol to a lesser extent). Most would agree Ozil is a top-10 player in the world. Ramos and Alves are very close for the title of best RB in the world. Xabi Alonso and Busquets?
Come on now, be fair.
I'll try to address most of the main points of contention...
First off, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill regarding that Bayern game. From my view, and by all accounts that I've read/heard, the game was even for 35 minutes. That Ribery, Sweinsteiger, Gomez, et al were eventually able to unlock any defense shouldn't be surprising. IMO, the Bavarians are the third best side in Europe. A two goal loss was predictable away from home so City did not really get "exposed," they simply played a better side. His approach was fair, you're simply speaking with hindsight. Perhaps he should have used his more defensive minded FBs, but at the same time he had his paciest defenders out there to cope with Ribery and co., so you can't blame him much for that. Regarding his lack of success, he has gotten to the knockout stages on more than one occasion, and none of those Inter sides were good enough to win the CL anyway. He did reach the quarters where he lost to the best team of that time, Milan. Regardless, he has plenty of tournament and cup experience and success with Lazio and Inter, and his work this season has been excellent.
Experience does indeed matter, past success not so much. Though both aren't as important as strength of squad as a unit, and individually as players. I like how you hammered the experience point, and then asserted that raw players like Cleverly and Welbeck can be major forces in the competition.The midfield problems are glaringly obvious, and you should have been clued in from seeing Rooney playing central midfield the last few games. They simply have no creativity otherwise, and so they will and have struggled against disciplined/talented defenses that can maintain shape/structure in the face of pace and movement. Giggs may have been able to provide what they need, but Fergie knows by now that he's too immobile at this point in his career to be a net-positive influence against the elite sides. As for their defense, Ferdinand is close to finished, and if Jones is such a rock I wonder how it's possible that they've allowed the among the most chances on goal in the Prem this year.
Barca's form is fine; they've dominated every European fixture, and just came off a run of almost 10 clean sheets. If you watched the last domestic result you wouldn't be alluding to it as evidence of a real lack of form because of what kind of game it was. They're decidedly better than last year: more options in attack and midfield, the emergence of Thiago and Mascherano as perhaps a world class CB, and what Sanchez will provide in terms of wide play once he settles in. Casillas isn't clearly better than Valdes, and I watch both regularly. Valdes' goal-attempt ratio and other measurables have been superior for three years running. Marcelo is weak defensively compared to Abidal, and Pepe is way too technically deficient to start over Mascherano/Puyol/Pique. Alves is the best RB in the world; anyone who watched him shackle Ronaldo, and sees what he provides going forward knows this. The criticism is that he is seemingly caught out often, but its almost by design, as Pep usually plays him very high in attack. There are four better playmakers than Ozil on the FCB roster. And Alonso isn't good enough defensively (work rate, mobility, ball winning) to play as a lone holding middy over Busquets/Mascherano.
And that's honestly me being fair.
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He has a pretty strong desire to stay there, as does his father. Furthermore, under the new deal, Santos won't get any money for selling him. The idea is that these next 3 years will make them enough money/fans/etc. to more than make up for the lump-sum cash they'd see if they just sold him.Originally Posted by HAM CITY
Why because its in ink?
Great move by Santos IMO.
You guys claiming you want to see him in a "more competitive" league must be unaware of what the Brasileirão entails. Easily the one of the most, if not the most, competitive leagues in football.
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I meant in terms of talent, should've clarified on that (ie: I want to see him fair against a team like Barcelona, etc).Originally Posted by PlatinumFunk
He has a pretty strong desire to stay there, as does his father. Furthermore, under the new deal, Santos won't get any money for selling him. The idea is that these next 3 years will make them enough money/fans/etc. to more than make up for the lump-sum cash they'd see if they just sold him.Originally Posted by HAM CITY
Why because its in ink?
Great move by Santos IMO.
You guys claiming you want to see him in a "more competitive" league must be unaware of what the Brasileirão entails. Easily the one of the most, if not the most, competitive leagues in football.
ham city
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Originally Posted by PlatinumFunk
He has a pretty strong desire to stay there, as does his father. Furthermore, under the new deal, Santos won't get any money for selling him. The idea is that these next 3 years will make them enough money/fans/etc. to more than make up for the lump-sum cash they'd see if they just sold him.Originally Posted by HAM CITY
Why because its in ink?
Great move by Santos IMO.
You guys claiming you want to see him in a "more competitive" league must be unaware of what the Brasileirão entails. Easily the one of the most, if not the most, competitive leagues in football.
I LOVE the Brasileirão, been absolutely lost without it since I GOLTV was cut from my cable package, but let's keep it real. Defensively it's just not up to par with the top leagues.
2014 is a long ways away.
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I'd bet anything that he's in Europe before 2014
ham city
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The odds are in your favor.
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I honestly think he will be in all white by the summer....
xtapolapacetl
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Originally Posted by PlatinumFunk
He has a pretty strong desire to stay there, as does his father. Furthermore, under the new deal, Santos won't get any money for selling him. The idea is that these next 3 years will make them enough money/fans/etc. to more than make up for the lump-sum cash they'd see if they just sold him.Originally Posted by HAM CITY
Why because its in ink?
Great move by Santos IMO.
You guys claiming you want to see him in a "more competitive" league must be unaware of what the Brasileirão entails. Easily the one of the most, if not the most, competitive leagues in football.
I don't think anyone meant "more competitive" like that. MLS might be more competitive than La Liga in the sense that more teams are capable of finishing as the champions. But you're just flat out kidding yourself if you think that any of those teams are on the level of Real Madrid. Isn't Ronaldihno beasting there after not being able to properly crack the first 11 in AC Milan, who is not one of the very best teams in Europe since they got kicked out of the Champions League by a good, but nowhere near the best team in the Premier League?
For me, the rep of this kid is in limbo right now. He might be the new Romario, but he just as well might end up as the new Robinho. I'm not saying he's definitely the new Robinho, but I won't compare him to the likes of Messi until he proves himself for a team like Real Madrid. Until then, he's all hype.
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http://soccernet.espn.go....rts-direct-arena?cc=4716
Newcastle United have controversially announced their ground will be known as the Sports Direct Arena with immediate effect, using owner Mike Ashley's high street brand.
Newcastle United have controversially announced their ground will be known as the Sports Direct Arena with immediate effect, using owner Mike Ashley's high street brand.
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Extremely logical if you look beyond the actual result. City's loss to Bayern Munich showcased a complete lack of CL experience, not to mention this was only in the group stage. City failed to finish crucial chances early and then got completely exposed on the counterattack courtesy of Ribery (predominantly). Mancini is a relatively inexperienced CL manager with little to no success in the past (ex. Inter). A match against Bayern he should have played conservatively and more traditionally to build his squad's confidence, instead Mancini goes against the grain and City gets exposed. The Tevez situation didn't help matters either. Plus lack of control with Dzeko and Zabaleta. Managing the PL and CL are two completely different animals. What's going to happen in the knockout stage?
Another point you're failing to see is Chelsea and Manchester United (more so) have immense CL experience and success. That does wonders going forward in the competition. You're focusing way too much on current form and not enough on recent past history. You give so much credit to Barca yet you forget United were just runner-ups to your beloved Catalans. I don't think losing VDS and Scholes completely diminishes their CL dreams for this campaign. Cleverley and De Gea are more than capable replacements not to mention Young's play out wide and Phil Jones serving as a rock in the middle of the defense with recent injuries to Ferdinand and Vidic. Welbeck can also be a major offensive force in the competition. The most glaring difference between City and United is the manager, SAF. Fergie knows how to prepare his squad for CL competitions and his track record backs that up. Lastly, you constantly refer to United's "midfield problems." Is that based on one loss to City? Most would believe United's problems in that match lie defensively and specifically with Jonny Evans' red card, not the midfield which actually controlled most of the tempo first-half. Watch the match again, Super Mario's goal came against the run of play. At that time Manchester United was controlling possession in the midfield that you seemingly perceive as weak. Cleverley and Anderson (already has substantial European experience) are talented, young players ready to make CL contributions. Pogba is another rising star in United's camp and could be ready for first-team action by the end of this year or possibly early next season. JSP and Giggs are crafty veterans that can also play in the middle. Sneijder would be a nice luxury, but honestly Chelsea needs a CAM more.
I'll speak more briefly on Chelsea. I do feel they need Sneijder or Modric to take them to the next level. They have an abundance of attacking options but are still adjusting to a new playing style. AVB has tremendous CL experience under Mourinho and could have a legendary managing career when it's all said and done. At the moment Chelsea's form is hurt by a lack of balance between going forward in AVB's 4-3-3 and maintaining strong defensive organization. Although Bosingwa seems to be having a resurgent contract year, Van der Wiel or Pereira could have helped defensively. Essien's return could boost the club second-half of the season. Their biggest need is clearly a CAM like Sneijder who can also take set pieces when Lampard and Drogba leave Stamford Bridge. A good midfielder in the middle of the park would help tremendously to unlock defenses and provide service for Torres, Mata, etc.
I do agree with the sentiment that you guys seem to share about English clubs having more of an outside chance than the favorites Madrid or Barca. Just remember it's not impossible, the CL competition is very unpredictable. I've got Madrid and Barca (1A and 1B) followed by United, Bayern Munich, and Chelsea.
AboveLegit, your five points about Barca being favorites contradicts the point you made earlier about United and Chelsea's "current form." They haven't quite looked like the squad from last year. Can you honestly tell me Barcelona is in good or great form right now (domestically and CL group)?
Surely you must be exaggerating as a FCB supporter with that starting 11 comment. Casillas is clearly better than Valdes. Abidal is aging and Marcelo is a better option at this point in their careers (same with Pepe and Puyol to a lesser extent). Most would agree Ozil is a top-10 player in the world. Ramos and Alves are very close for the title of best RB in the world. Xabi Alonso and Busquets?
Come on now, be fair.
I'll try to address most of the main points of contention...
First off, I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill regarding that Bayern game. From my view, and by all accounts that I've read/heard, the game was even for 35 minutes. That Ribery, Sweinsteiger, Gomez, et al were eventually able to unlock any defense shouldn't be surprising. IMO, the Bavarians are the third best side in Europe. A two goal loss was predictable away from home so City did not really get "exposed," they simply played a better side. His approach was fair, you're simply speaking with hindsight. Perhaps he should have used his more defensive minded FBs, but at the same time he had his paciest defenders out there to cope with Ribery and co., so you can't blame him much for that. Regarding his lack of success, he has gotten to the knockout stages on more than one occasion, and none of those Inter sides were good enough to win the CL anyway. He did reach the quarters where he lost to the best team of that time, Milan. Regardless, he has plenty of tournament and cup experience and success with Lazio and Inter, and his work this season has been excellent.
Experience does indeed matter, past success not so much. Though both aren't as important as strength of squad as a unit, and individually as players. I like how you hammered the experience point, and then asserted that raw players like Cleverly and Welbeck can be major forces in the competition.The midfield problems are glaringly obvious, and you should have been clued in from seeing Rooney playing central midfield the last few games. They simply have no creativity otherwise, and so they will and have struggled against disciplined/talented defenses that can maintain shape/structure in the face of pace and movement. Giggs may have been able to provide what they need, but Fergie knows by now that he's too immobile at this point in his career to be a net-positive influence against the elite sides. As for their defense, Ferdinand is close to finished, and if Jones is such a rock I wonder how it's possible that they've allowed the among the most chances on goal in the Prem this year.
Barca's form is fine; they've dominated every European fixture, and just came off a run of almost 10 clean sheets. If you watched the last domestic result you wouldn't be alluding to it as evidence of a real lack of form because of what kind of game it was. They're decidedly better than last year: more options in attack and midfield, the emergence of Thiago and Mascherano as perhaps a world class CB, and what Sanchez will provide in terms of wide play once he settles in. Casillas isn't clearly better than Valdes, and I watch both regularly. Valdes' goal-attempt ratio and other measurables have been superior for three years running. Marcelo is weak defensively compared to Abidal, and Pepe is way too technically deficient to start over Mascherano/Puyol/Pique. Alves is the best RB in the world; anyone who watched him shackle Ronaldo, and sees what he provides going forward knows this. The criticism is that he is seemingly caught out often, but its almost by design, as Pep usually plays him very high in attack. There are four better playmakers than Ozil on the FCB roster. And Alonso isn't good enough defensively (work rate, mobility, ball winning) to play as a lone holding middy over Busquets/Mascherano.
And that's honestly me being fair.
You may be being "fair" in your mind, but you are taking an extremely simplistic view of the game and ignoring many relevant factors, namely tactics and coaching. This whole "no one on Real would start for Barca" line of argument is sort of irrelevant. How many Mavericks other than Dirk would have started for the Heat last year, and how did that turn out? When Inter beat Barca, how many Inter players would have started for Barca? All you've really done is point out who has a stronger roster, but this is not a video game, what matters is what happens on the field, and if you honestly believe after their recent encounters and the two teams' relative form in the last few months that Real is significantly behind Barca in any relevant way I think you're letting your allegiances affect your judgment.
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Eh, perhaps I am biased, but I stand by what I said. How are any of my points irrelevant? The original post was about who the favorite should be, and I laid out my argument for Barca, who in my opinion are the clear choice. I briefly pointed out some factors which support my claim, and yes superior individual strength in favor of Barca was one of them. The whole 'who would start' thing was just highlighting that point. You seemingly agree that they are indeed the favorite, but have a massive problem with me saying a gap is still there.
I stated my reasons for believing that, which you agreed were legitimate, so why jump on the roster contention like that's the only line of reasoning I explored for my argument?
Not even sure why you brought up tactics and coaching, as if what is brewing in Pep's and Mou's brains regarding potential matches is common knowledge to be freely debated. We know they're both great coaches, their teams will be well coached, and their approaches to every CL tie will be tactically sound. Sufficient?
Not even sure why you brought up tactics and coaching, as if what is brewing in Pep's and Mou's brains regarding potential matches is common knowledge to be freely debated. We know they're both great coaches, their teams will be well coached, and their approaches to every CL tie will be tactically sound. Sufficient?
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DEAD at the vidic to real madrid rumors this morning
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I jumped on the roster point because it's sophistry. There are so many flaws in your argument. One, you can't compare players like you're doing; Barca has developed players for specific roles on that team given its unique philosophy, so of course they're going to work better in that role than players from another team. Two, you're stating things as facts that are arguable to say the least (four playmakers better than Ozil, Casillas not significantly better than Valdes, Alves as the best RB in the world, perceived flaws of Madrid players). Three, as stated before, you're attaching importance to something that has proven to be unimportant over and over again when squads with less star-studded rosters have prevailed over juggernauts like Barca and Brazil etc. Four, you're conveniently leaving out the fact that Mourinho is a better coach than Pep and has gotten the better of him in the past with weaker squads. You dismiss this point by saying "they're both great minds", but then you go to such great lengths to make fine distinctions between players that allow you to place Barca players over Madrid.Originally Posted by abovelegit1
Eh, perhaps I am biased, but I stand by what I said. How are any of my points irrelevant? The original post was about who the favorite should be, and I laid out my argument for Barca, who in my opinion are the clear choice. I briefly pointed out some factors which support my claim, and yes superior individual strength in favor of Barca was one of them. The whole 'who would start' thing was just highlighting that point. You seemingly agree that they are indeed the favorite, but have a massive problem with me saying a gap is still there.I stated my reasons for believing that, which you agreed were legitimate, so why jump on the roster contention like that's the only line of reasoning I explored for my argument?
Not even sure why you brought up tactics and coaching, as if what is brewing in Pep's and Mou's brains regarding potential matches is common knowledge to be freely debated. We know they're both great coaches, their teams will be well coached, and their approaches to every CL tie will be tactically sound. Sufficient?
In short, it seems to me that you're reaching to widen the gap between Barca and Madrid. It is not that wide a gap right now, and efforts to make it seem so will inevitably devolve into biased rants.
