"The Last Dance" Michael Jordan & Chicago Bulls Docuseries

[DCAllAfrican]

 

[Mr Dink]

Surprised by all of the sudden love for Melo. Knicks fans were begging him to be traded when he was playing for y'all.

 

[Brownstone]

If melo is "trash" then what is Ron harper

We're all allowed a little hyperbole every now and then , let me rephrase

I have always found Melos game to be inefficient (see playoff record), and while he may be one of the best midrange shooters of his generation. I have always found his game boring dating back to his Syracuse days. JMO.

 

[KHUFU]

Vince Carter was must see tv for several years before his injuries and team changes set in. I love the fact that he attended his college graduation as well. Great move, and there is nothing to regret about that at all.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Surprised by all of the sudden love for Melo. Knicks fans were begging him to be traded when he was playing for y'all.

Not sure it is SUDDEN. People that have messed with Melo never stopped.

He has always been a popular player.

 

[lamekilla]

If melo is "trash" then what is Ron harper

A 5 time NBA champion

 

[Master Zik]

Also saying Knicks fans were begging for his trade is a complete overstatement.

That was the F Phil era.

 

[lamekilla]

Melo's fate was sealed the minute he limited Lin-sanity. The basketball gods were trying to give him an out and they were done after that.

 

[KHUFU]

Melo was, is, one of those players who never had a winning coach, someone with a plan on how to handle his talents. He never had a Pat Riley, Phil Jackson. LeBron is an anomaly, whereas a mediocre coach can win with him. He is a five tool player, like in baseball. Melo is not as equipped, then needs more tools around him. Great offensive player, but in those other areas he does not create an imbalance on the other end.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

I think you are trivializing what was said in the convo.

I think you are missing the main point of Klosterman's stance.

He said there were 2 arguments taking place.

Who was better (relative to their time) vs. Who was better (absolutely)

If you remember, the convo branched into Klosterman asking if it was possible for a player in the more evolved form of the game to NOT be better than someone that came before. He went on to cite examples of average players being placed into a previous generation.

Then they talked about how as time moved along, the gap between the present and the previous generation became more narrow

I just listened to it again, just because I wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong. Everything I said was correct, Klosterman and Lebron fans are saying that LEBRON was BETTER AT PLAYING THE GAME. (He's referring to skills and on the court play.) That's why he brings up passing and rebounding.

And Jordan fans are saying he's the greatest of all-time period. (Which also includes more than on the court play.)


You got the two points wrong, go listen to it again.

He's on the side of the Lebron fans and brings up points to try to prove it. I scoffed at it because he's wrong. Am I right that he's on Lebron's side when it comes to who's the best between him and MJ?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

I just listened to it again, just because I wanted to make sure I wasn't wrong. Everything I said was correct, Klosterman and Lebron fans are saying that LEBRON was BETTER AT PLAYING THE GAME. (He's referring to skills and on the court play.) That's why he brings up passing and rebounding.

And Jordan fans are saying he's the greatest of all-time period. (Which also includes more than on the court play.)


You got the two points wrong, go listen to it again.

He's on the side of the Lebron fans and brings up points to try to prove it. I scoffed at it because he's wrong. Am I right that he's on Lebron's side when it comes to who's the best between him and MJ?

Yea I am not speaking on which side was TAKEN, I was speaking about the actual discussion that Klosterman presented. (Which I stated from the beginning of my previous post).

Please re-read what I said. I never said what you said WASN'T said, I simply said you missed out a big chunk of the NUANCE of discussion. (Which you did)

 

[friscostylez]

Melo was, is, one of those players who never had a winning coach, someone with a plan on how to handle his talents. He never had a Pat Riley, Phil Jackson. LeBron is an anomaly, whereas a mediocre coach can win with him. He is a five tool player, like in baseball. Melo is not as equipped, then needs more tools around him. Great offensive player, but in those other areas he does not create an imbalance on the other end.

i think you mean a coach who can mask his inabilities & weaknesses...but that's assuming he would be willing to be coached. who was Pat Riley before he coached Kareem & Magic? who was Phil before Mike & Pippen? classic chicken & egg question if you ask me. maybe Melo had a HOF-level coach but he wasn't talented enough to turn him into one.

 

[Cashflow]

God himself couldn't have turned George Karl into a HOF level coach

The goofball didn't even have basic out of bound plays in his playbook

 

[DCAllAfrican]

i think you mean a coach who can mask his inabilities & weaknesses...but that's assuming he would be willing to be coached. who was Pat Riley before he coached Kareem & Magic? who was Phil before Mike & Pippen? classic chicken & egg question if you ask me. maybe Melo had a HOF-level coach but he wasn't talented enough to turn him into one.

Well what about the rest of talent on his squads? High level talent makes coaches turn into HOF talents. Not the coach's abilities.

Maybe if Melo had better teammates it would have turned out differently.

The best squad he played for ran into who? Finals runner ups.

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

Yea I am not speaking on which side was TAKEN, I was speaking about the actual discussion that Klosterman presented. (Which I stated from the beginning of my previous post).

Please re-read what I said. I never said what you said WASN'T said, I simply said you missed out a big chunk of the NUANCE of discussion. (Which you did)

Show me the exact time where he says what you said. The Lebron-Jordan argument doesn't get brought back up when they start talking about other stuff.

 

[KHUFU]

i think you mean a coach who can mask his inabilities & weaknesses...but that's assuming he would be willing to be coached. who was Pat Riley before he coached Kareem & Magic? who was Phil before Mike & Pippen? classic chicken & egg question if you ask me. maybe Melo had a HOF-level coach but he wasn't talented enough to turn him into one.

Coaches do learn how to be better coaches as well, especially if they’ve never dealt with certain personalities. Magic was not a great on ball defender, turned himself into a better shooter, then had problems against an NBA press, but both he and Riley got better as time went on. I agree with you about Melo’s weaknesses, but he needed a proven coach to teach him about those weaknesses. I think what happened that turned many of that generation off of a so called hof coach, was what happened in the Olympics with Larry Brown. He pissed everyone but Iverson off, even pissing Duncan off. When asked what he learned from playing under Brown, LeBron stated,” nothing”.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Show me the exact time where he says what you said. The Lebron-Jordan argument doesn't get brought back up when they start talking about other stuff.

I honestly don't feel like scanning through a podcast I already listened to/deleted to find that.

Outside of this conversation, I don't feel like investing any outside time to it.

But I am 100% sure that was mentioned in the conversation. It was before the part where Klostermon kept bugging Bill about if LeBron is better. Before the part about rebounding.

He starts off by saying, "There are two different conversations behind had."

 

[friscostylez]

Well what about the rest of talent on his squads? High level talent makes coaches turn into HOF talents. Not the coach's abilities.

Maybe if Melo had better teammates it would have turned out differently.

The best squad he played for ran into who? Finals runner ups.

DC bro, i think you & me both know there are so many variables to this & can prob go on for days if we wanted too

 

[Girl Thats Jules]

I honestly don't feel like scanning through a podcast I already listened to/deleted to find that.

Outside of this conversation, I don't feel like investing any outside time to it.

But I am 100% sure that was mentioned in the conversation. It was before the part where Klostermon kept bugging Bill about if LeBron is better. Before the part about rebounding.

He starts off by saying, "There are two different conversations behind had."

Thats why I think you're incorrect, I just listened to it AGAIN and can't find what you said. I don't think it exists.

If it does, prove it.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Thats why I think you're incorrect, I just listened to it AGAIN and can't find what you said. I don't think it exists.

If it does, prove it.

I guess I won't be proving it. I don't feel like scanning through that conversation for this. You can take the victory.

 

[polosanddunks]

Melo sealed his fate when he took that contract and stayed in NY. Can you blame him though? Too much of a gamble to head to Miami and play with Wade and Bron for less....in hindsight he would of got a big contract after winning 1-2 chips with em anyways since he didn't get any injuries.

 

[Master Zik]

i think you mean a coach who can mask his inabilities & weaknesses...but that's assuming he would be willing to be coached. who was Pat Riley before he coached Kareem & Magic? who was Phil before Mike & Pippen? classic chicken & egg question if you ask me. maybe Melo had a HOF-level coach but he wasn't talented enough to turn him into one.

Can't agree here. NONE of Melo's former coaches have gone on to prove they're championship caliber coaches.

Its one thing to say Melo never had a coach to maximize his talents and its another thing to say he didn't have a coach that would hide his weaknesses but if you gonna bring up multiple championship coaches like Riley and Jackson then you gotta address the facts.

He's never had a coach on that level. To me its a big jump to say Melo's never had a coach thats hid his inabilities or never had a coach with a plan to handle his talents to talking about who Riley was before Magic and Kareem. Riley was already known as a good coach on the come up. Jackson paid his dues as a coach in lower leagues, and then as an assistant learning the triangle before he got his shot.

Not to mention Melo has never been on any sort of championship caliber team.

Seriously go down the list. Melo has had okay to good coaches. Not one great coach.

 

[friscostylez]

Can't agree here. NONE of Melo's former coaches have gone on to prove they're championship caliber coaches.

Its one thing to say Melo never had a coach to maximize his talents and its another thing to say he didn't have a coach that would hide his weaknesses but if you gonna bring up multiple championship coaches like Riley and Jackson then you gotta address the facts.

He's never had a coach on that level. To me its a big jump to say Melo's never had a coach thats hid his inabilities or never had a coach with a plan to handle his talents to talking about who Riley was before Magic and Kareem. Riley was already known as a good coach on the come up. Jackson paid his dues as a coach in lower leagues, and then as an assistant learning the triangle before he got his shot.

Not to mention Melo has never been on any sort of championship caliber team.

Seriously go down the list. Melo has had okay to good coaches. Not one great coach.

how about we take a few steps back & talk about how Melo advanced out of the first round only twice in his career OR his subpar playoff performances

 

[TURBO UNO]

Melo sealed his fate when he took that contract and stayed in NY. Can you blame him though? Too much of a gamble to head to Miami and play with Wade and Bron for less....in hindsight he would of got a big contract after winning 1-2 chips with em anyways since he didn't get any injuries.

All truth. He should’ve gone though at least try it for a year to see if the wade/LBJ thing could work. Instead we got CB and and fewer championships than were promised.

 

[Master Zik]

how about we take a few steps back & talk about how Melo advanced out of the first round only twice in his career OR his subpar playoff performances

Melo got out of the first round in Denver one time and got out of 1st round two times on the Knicks.

Since his rookie season leading the nuggets to the playoffs he usually got eliminated by eventual NBA champs or a final contender minus I think the two times they lost to the Clippers.

Again, I'm not sure what those statements are proving here. What was KG and Ray Allen doing before they went to the Celts? Or to be more comparable with his peers where was Wade after Shaq left? Chris Bosh his entire Raptor career? We can talk about subpar playoff performances too.

It takes a team to be playoff/finals contender. If your stance is simply Melo isnt LeBron or KD that led their teams to conference finals and finals only to lose then okay that's fine cuz those guys never had a chance until they had better teammates and coaches. Not saying much cuz a lot of star players are in that boat.