(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[Master Zik]

If Stannis is alive and comes back his motives and attitude need to be changed/revamped.

Either he's now dedicated to stopping the white walkers and so he's amassing another army and allies or he just wants simple revenge.

If he comes back on that same ****, finds another red women to put him on the Iron throne he'd just be looking for another L most likely.

 

[tdogg2k]

r.

again, me being a fan of those Stannis and melisandre has nothing to do with my opinion of the show and what's been happening the last 2 seasons. (if this is what you're getting at)

They're both 100% dead IMO just one has more of a chance of coming back. If there was a character who might have the ability to resurrect someone and she was closer to one dead character than the other, then wouldn't you say the closest dead character has a better chance of being resurrected?

I know what you're gonna say. As far as we know Mel doesn't have that ability and you're right. If we go by only what facts that are in the show and books then Jon is dead period, but you know how important prophecy is to this story and Azor Ahai is one of them that judging by the clues in the book more than likely pertains to Jon. 

you're absolutely killing me WB..
Why are you insistent on Jon has more chance?
what evidence do you have?
where did you read this?
Which clues in the book tells me Jon is Azor Ahai???
(This is the same type treatment y'all do to me when I say something in here. )


FACTS:
Book & Show
Stannis is in the woods. Book: he's either covered in snow and never made it to ramsay , or made it to ramsay and died. WE DONT KNOW
Show he was on his last leg and we saw brienne swing a sword and hit something. is he dead WE DONT KNOW

Jon Book and SHOW "For the Watch" Stab Stab Stab... in the snow bleeding out.
Show: Davis puts him on the table. Dead. Ghost sees him there still dead. Melisandre looked dead in his face did NOTHING for him. Still dead.
Book: (iirc) Melisandre finds him. Takes him no where.. does nothing (as far as we know)

Melisandre has always believed Stannis to be Azor Ahai. and has NEVER mentioned Jon being him. there is nothing in writing..or mentioned as such, only theory. WHICH this theory is based off another THEORY IF his dad is Rhaegar.......and that's based off another THEORY that what Rhaegar read about was even about being Azor Ahai. Which is based off a THEORY that rhaegar had the baby with lyanna. which is based of a THEORY that they were in love (or raped). which is based off a THEORY that rhaegar needed to have that baby with lyanna because he was important and that his seed (he already had a son btw) was going to be the Prince that was promised

so please tell me where this more evidence is at you speak of??

 

[slighted]

I really hope this series ends on a depressing note, not some "Jon gets resurrected and rules the world with Dany" steez.

 

[pitman13]

i dont think stannis is dead

From the latest HBO book:

The level of denial I've witnessed from Stannis fans is borderline unhealthy.

 

[pitman13]

Also, the fact that we're still having discussions about a character who's irrelevant in the show is mind boggling.

 

[shogun]

I really hope this series ends on a depressing note, not some "Jon gets resurrected and rules the world with Dany" steez.

Everyone going to get wiped out like when that meteor murked the dinosaurs. The Others are the meteor.

 

[Barbados Slim]

again, me being a fan of those Stannis and melisandre has nothing to do with my opinion of the show and what's been happening the last 2 seasons. (if this is what you're getting at)
you're absolutely killing me WB..
Why are you insistent on Jon has more chance?
what evidence do you have?
where did you read this?
Which clues in the book tells me Jon is Azor Ahai???
(This is the same type treatment y'all do to me when I say something in here. )


FACTS:
Book & Show
Stannis is in the woods. Book: he's either covered in snow and never made it to ramsay , or made it to ramsay and died. WE DONT KNOW
Show he was on his last leg and we saw brienne swing a sword and hit something. is he dead WE DONT KNOW

Jon Book and SHOW "For the Watch" Stab Stab Stab... in the snow bleeding out.
Show: Davis puts him on the table. Dead. Ghost sees him there still dead. Melisandre looked dead in his face did NOTHING for him. Still dead.
Book: (iirc) Melisandre finds him. Takes him no where.. does nothing (as far as we know)

Melisandre has always believed Stannis to be Azor Ahai. and has NEVER mentioned Jon being him. there is nothing in writing..or mentioned as such, only theory. WHICH this theory is based off another THEORY IF his dad is Rhaegar.......and that's based off another THEORY that what Rhaegar read about was even about being Azor Ahai. Which is based off a THEORY that rhaegar had the baby with lyanna. which is based of a THEORY that they were in love (or raped). which is based off a THEORY that rhaegar needed to have that baby with lyanna because he was important and that his seed (he already had a son btw) was going to be the Prince that was promised

so please tell me where this more evidence is at you speak of??

Here's some evidence from the text in regards to Jon being Azor Ahai

We'll start with the prophecy: Azor Ahai will be born under a burning start amidst smoke and salt wielding the flaming sword Lightbringer to defend the world from R'hllor's nemsis, the Other. Salt and smoke...Bowmen's salt tears on Jon's smoking wounds and Ser Patrick "a bloody corspe...cloak... pattered with blue stars" Salt, smoke, and a bleeding star all used to describe Jon's death scene. I don't think that's a coincidence. 

Jon also had a dream where he was wielding a burning sword against The Others. Aemon says he thinks Stannis's Lightbringer is fake because it isn't hot.

Mel thinks that Stannis is the Azor Ahai but she admitted that she sometimes misinterprets the visions in the flame, but one think is certain she sees snow a lot.

One piece of evidence that seals it for me is "I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow" - Mel. That is how it's printed. Notice the capital S and not lower case s. Could be a typo but I doubt it.

I can try and find more evidence, but I know that unless the text or show explicitly says Jon is Azor Ahai or until he actually rises from the dead. You won't change your mind which is reasonable. I don't think you're crazy or anything and I can't speak for the others in here.

About Stannis. I loved Stannis, more so in the books, but he is a cool character. I think in the show he is better off dead. I'm not student of creative writing or story telling but I think his character is complete now. What do you think is left for his character in the show?

 

[District of Columbia]

I don't see how Stannis in the show serves anymore purpose in the long run. His arc was completed lasted year with the burning of his child and his wife's hanging.

He's gone

 

[tdogg2k]

Also, the fact that we're still having discussions about a character who's irrelevant in the show is mind boggling.

So let me get this straight.....
Starks are known for catching Ls all in the book or show.
Jon (particularly) yes helped wildlings get to the wall ( show never showed just how much he helped them)
Jon only is featured for the wall and fighting with the white walkers.

Stannis. Trying to fix the realm.
Helped jon. (Naw scratch that) WON the war against the wildings.
Believes jon about the others and allowed him to continue his fight against that.
Left to avenge the north and the traitorous boltons. Also allowed a search for young rickon
Still a threat to the 7 kingdoms theoretically by House name alone.
Oh yea and the fact we can still go under the assumption he is azor ahai as said in the book and show...

So explain to me what makes/made stannis less relevant than Jon snow?


The only thing that truly makes Jon "relevant" are the "THEORIES" of who he could be....

But yet yall acting like what i say is radical..

 

[shogun]

stannis lame though. You caping too hard for a character few people liked.

 

[slighted]

 

I really hope this series ends on a depressing note, not some "Jon gets resurrected and rules the world with Dany" steez.

Everyone going to get wiped out like when that meteor murked the dinosaurs. The Others are the meteor.

I just don't see how the Others get washed. Are they weak to dragon fire?

 

[District of Columbia]

So let me get this straight.....
Starks are known for catching Ls all in the book or show.
Jon (particularly) yes helped wildlings get to the wall ( show never showed just how much he helped them)
Jon only is featured for the wall and fighting with the white walkers.

Stannis. Trying to fix the realm.
Helped jon. (Naw scratch that) WON the war against the wildings.
Believes jon about the others and allowed him to continue his fight against that.
Left to avenge the north and the traitorous boltons. Also allowed a search for young rickon
Still a threat to the 7 kingdoms theoretically by House name alone.
Oh yea and the fact we can still go under the assumption he is azor ahai as said in the book and show...

So explain to me what makes/made stannis less relevant than Jon snow?


The only thing that truly makes Jon "relevant" are the "THEORIES" of who he could be....

But yet yall acting like what i say is radical..

That is the definition of radical if you truly believe Stannis is as much of a pivotal character as Jon

Dude doesn't even have his own POV chapters if I'm remembering right I'm rereading for the 2nd time

 

[shogun]

Should be. If they can be killed with dragon glass then that hot dragon fire should disintigrate them easy. R'hollor has probably been planning something too. Gathering his troops and going to have that great hero get resurrected. The Other god is his nemesis I think.

 

[slighted]

Should be. If they can be killed with dragon glass then that hot dragon fire should disintigrate them easy. R'hollor has probably been planning something too. Gathering his troops and going to have that great hero get resurrected. The Other god is his nemesis I think.

So it was basically stated in last season's fight that = Jon vs. Other god is the end all, be all.

 

[Trey Bantz]

Should be. If they can be killed with dragon glass then that hot dragon fire should disintigrate them easy. R'hollor has probably been planning something too. Gathering his troops and going to have that great hero get resurrected. The Other god is his nemesis I think.

So it was basically stated in last season's fight that = Jon vs. Other god is the end all, be all.

Last season also revealed that Valyrian steel kills Others.

 

[slighted]

 

 

Should be. If they can be killed with dragon glass then that hot dragon fire should disintigrate them easy. R'hollor has probably been planning something too. Gathering his troops and going to have that great hero get resurrected. The Other god is his nemesis I think.

So it was basically stated in last season's fight that = Jon vs. Other god is the end all, be all.

Last season also revealed that Valyrian steel kills Others.

Guess Jon is the end game then.

 

[tdogg2k]

stannis lame though. You caping too hard for a character few people liked.

Few show watchers yes...but many book readers know and love the true importance stannis brings/brought. you can go to the many many other sites and find his fans. there was a survey (which i know there are hundres of them) that had book fans being stannis fans only really second to jon snow.

Also admit it, people were warming up to stannis show wise before he gave the ok to burn his daughter. that is practically the only thing people complain about from him now.
Show stannis in Season 5 was bringing the Lolz and the G-status at the same damn time.

That is the definition of radical if you truly believe Stannis is as much of a pivotal character as Jon
Dude doesn't even have his own POV chapters if I'm remembering right I'm rereading for the 2nd time

Hmmm characters with big fan bases but no book POV.

Robb Stark
Khal Drogo
Selmy (had 2 solo chapters)
Renly Baratheon
Robert Baratheon
Loras Tyrell
Margery Tyrell
Tywin Lannister
Bronn
Mormonts (including Jorah and his sisters)

PETYR BAELISH
VARYS
RHAEGAR TARGERYON (which half our debates stem from this guy alone)

Who in that list serves no purpose or didn't have a Pivotal role in the story?
Stannis also happens to be the most mentioned out of all of those in the book.
Stannis has been an important part of the series since the beginning with the discovery of the Cersi and Jamie's incest. The reason the GOT even started he's been apart of this story.

that was a silly statement on your part

 

[nako xl]

I think there's still a possible story arc where Stannis works to redeem himself.

In re: book Stannis Vs. Show Stannis - in the book we are told he dies off screen (by Ramsay Bolton) and because we didn't see it the popular opinion is Ramsay lied in the letter.

Why do we think show Ramsay wouldn't have lied to his dad if asked about Stannis's fate? We see how concerned/upset he gets whenever Roose criticizes him, calls him a failure, or talks about having another heir.

How would Roose take the information that his son ****** up again and let Stannis, thenonynimportsbt person in his army at that battle, crawl off into the woods and escape alive.

"Who did you say killed him again?"
"Umm some guy in my army. I didn't see who exactly but trust me it happened."

That's a trope that's been beaten to death in action movies for years. Hell Starscream built a career on it.

We know Roose wasn't there and it seems he got the info from Ramsay.

 

[tdogg2k]

Jamie had redemption story.

Theon had a redemption story

Victarion Greyjoy currently having a redemption story.

The hound had a redemption story.



Stannis doesn't quite need a "redemption story" but he can still be extremely useful. again being a Baratheon alone, him wanting to repair the realm. melisandre still using him. he still has more pull in the realm than you think.


(i actually don't know why me saying I dont care about this season already led to this but whatever. )

 

[harlemtothebronx]

You gotta let it go, tdogg.

 

[CHAOSE57]

You need some mutton, Davis?

 

[tdogg2k]

Sigh... why is it me that has to let it go? but no one gets on the constant snow supporters. or r+j supporters.. sigh... villianized for my consistent support...

You need some mutton, Davis?

I don't understand what this means...sounds like something show thread people made up.........

 

[Barbados Slim]

Just for the record tdogg I don't think you're crazy. I disagree but I dont think your opinion of Stannis or Jon is crazy. I felt the same way when I was arguing about The Spider.

 

[tdogg2k]

Just for the record tdogg I don't think you're crazy. I disagree but I dont think your opinion of Stannis or Jon is crazy. I felt the same way when I was arguing about The Spider.

I saw that video you posted (i saw it last month) and it was very intersting.
i was going to help you out in the show thread. but the post were too long and I was mainly reading on my phone and that thread moves so fast i dont usually read it when im away from it for like 2 hours and its up 6 pages

 

[tdogg2k]