(Spoilers) ASOIAF Books Discussion (All Books Read Edition) (Spoilers)

[shogun]

Yeah, those breasts are super aesthetic. I just read that she's pregnant right now. Imagine how even more perfect they are when bigger and fuller. Guy Pearce is a lucky mofo.

 

[pitman13]

Oh snap! That disappointed? 

I wanted to discuss what happened at Dorne in the show in here, so I was just making sure people would get butt hurt if I didn't spoiler tag it. 

theres no way for the real story line to happen now. so no spoiler tags needed
I doubt any of the show only watchers are going to pick up a book so go for it. Plus we'll respond in time

So because the show doesn't follow the book page by page, you're done ?

If that's the case, you should've never watched the show from jump. It's impossible for an adaptation be identical to the original source.

Book comparisons aside, episode one was still very good.

Yes, the Dorne storyline went LEFT but I'm still intrigued. Idk, at this point, I'm enjoying the show for what it's offering.

 

[shogun]

One of my friends loves the books but has only seen a few episodes of the show. He hates it and any changes it makes to the story. I learned to accept when a story is transferred to a different medium that whoever is doing it will try to make it their own and make it work for tv or film.

The Dorne stuff on the show is crap in comparison though. Not a fan of the show version of the sand snakes. Also leaving out Ariane entirely is some bs. So now on the show the prince is gone and so is his only kid.

 

[Barbados Slim]

I thought the episode was good, but the Dorne storyline does have me feeling some type of way. It can still be good, but I just don't know what the Sands Snakes plan on doing. If they want vengeance on the Lannisters then are they going to join the war finally? 

Even thought the Sansa story line is different I like the direction it's going in.

I think I forgive Theon. 

 

[pitman13]

One of my friends loves the books but has only seen a few episodes of the show. He hates it and any changes it makes to the story. I learned to accept when a story is transferred to a different medium that whoever is doing it will try to make it their own and make it work for tv or film.

If your friend only watched a couple of eps and stopped watching because he prefers the book, then I understand.

But for tdogg2k , to go through 5 seasons & all of a sudden "He's done" because the show is differ from the books makes zero sense.

Mans just upset Stannis is dead on the show. Get over it.

I thought the episode was good, but the Dorne storyline does have me feeling some type of way. It can still be good, but I just don't know what the Sands Snakes plan on doing. If they want vengeance on the Lannisters then are they going to join the war finally? 

Even thought the Sansa story line is different I like the direction it's going in.

I think I forgive Theon. 

Precisely. Book readers automatically scoffing at the changes like they're all bad.

Sansa on the show > books, BY FAR.

Again, the Dorne situation is head scratching but it's the first episode. Still 9 episodes left for their motives to be revealed.

Gotta let the show breathe for at least a couple more episodes.

 

[tdogg2k]

Stopping because it not the same as the book.
Well yes and no.
Stannis is still not confirmed per say but certainly not the reason im upset.
I havent truly been in all the way since season 4


Season 5 sort of lost me as a viewer in all honesty. There were good moments but wasn't in love with the direction of plot.
( im working and will type out my full analysis later)
To keep it short D&Ds plot makes no sense to things that were "supposed" to happen due to original story.

Its almost as if theyre going off the fact most fans have either read the story or atleast familiar with the details and were suppose to just fill them in.
Melisandre comes to mind. There has never been show mention of her powers feeling amplified at the wall or the entire glamor thing. Hell no mention of the stone of her necklace at all. But all of a sudden she takes it off and now shes old.

Dorne...... well if u read the book u already know why this is all wrong. But its not only the fact thats its wrong. Theres no real morivation outside of we want revenge for oberyn. No fact in there that doran was trying to explain the entire time he died justly. Or the fact he had more backers. Or they just kill hotah like hes a chump.
And include all the jamie, tristane marcella in that rant.

Knights watch stuff is interesting enoygh to not be angry about so i have no real beef with that. I dont like davos being the "hero" in this situation but again it makes sense. Even though we should be getting the manderly story instead.

Brans story hopefully will come together but season 4 of his story was meh to me

Tyrion is going to be good regardless. But.. killing selmy.....dumb because hes arelook in to the past.

Ill keep ranting if youd like but i think u get the point

 

[nako xl]

Stannis probably isn't dead bro.

In fact, the fact that Roose specifically states "Thanks to you the false king Stannis Baratheon is dead. Do you know who struck the killing blow?" and Ramsay says "No" and they're like too bad, means he most likely isn't dead.

The one time someone dies off screen in a show that revels in it's shocking definitive violence and it's one of the main POV characters? Y'all smarter than that.

TV is a visual medium. If you don't see it, and none of the characters can confirm seeing it, it didn't happen. You don't even see blood when Brienne swings. No head, nothing. Brienne hasn't even said the words "I killed Stannis" or acknowledged what happened at all. She's also an honorable person. Sneaking up and assassinating a dude when he's already been wounded in battle against another enemy of hers? It would be specifically the thing she hates Stannis and the Boltons for.

Stan's alive, bro.

 

[shogun]

I thought that conversation did confirm he was dead. Like they found his headless body and wanted to know who got rid of the problem for them.

 

[Barbados Slim]

 
Stannis probably isn't dead bro.

In fact, the fact that Roose specifically states "Thanks to you the false king Stannis Baratheon is dead. Do you know who struck the killing blow?" and Ramsay says "No" and they're like too bad, means he most likely isn't dead.

The one time someone dies off screen in a show that revels in it's shocking definitive violence and it's one of the main POV characters? Y'all smarter than that.

TV is a visual medium. If you don't see it, and none of the characters can confirm seeing it, it didn't happen. You don't even see blood when Brienne swings. No head, nothing. Brienne hasn't even said the words "I killed Stannis" or acknowledged what happened at all. She's also an honorable person. Sneaking up and assassinating a dude when he's already been wounded in battle against another enemy of hers? It would be specifically the thing she hates Stannis and the Boltons for.

Stan's alive, bro.

He's dead dude.

Brienne showing up to save Sansa then vowing to protector her show's how serious she is about her vows. She vowed to kill Stannis. Even if she didn't, Stannis wasn't in any shape to move and he's in Bolton territory with no men left to protect him.

 the fact that Roose specifically states "Thanks to you the false king Stannis Baratheon is dead. Do you know who struck the killing blow?" and Ramsay says "No" and they're like too bad, means he most likely isn't dead.

Nah man this is more prof that he's dead. Brienne kills him, rides off, Bolton men find his corpse, and report to Roose. 

Not sure why not knowing who killed him means he's alive. 

Brienne hasn't mentioned it cause the only line she has had after it was vowing to protect Sansa.

 

[tdogg2k]

I believe the same thing happening to bran and rickon in season 2 and yet they turned back up

 

[Barbados Slim]

But in season two Theon didn't find them. So it was easier to believe it wasn't them and you find out the truth minutes after.

In Stannis's case. He was injured, Brienne finds him, and swings her sword at him.  

I will say that the whole not on screen death means they're not dead kinda mess up the Stannis death.

 

[pitman13]

Barbados Slim , why are you even entertaining this foolishness?

 

[harlemtothebronx]

I will say, off screen deaths kill me. No good ever comes from it. Only gives the fanbase a legitimate reason to debate whether or not that character is dead. Cutting away is corny, and always gives me the feeling that the writers were trying to keep things a tiny bit open.

My gut tells me he's dead, though. I can't see them doing that. There have been bigger surprises in the past, but it just doesn't make sense for them to cut away and then bring him back. I can't see them coming up with a story compelling enough to make me believe Brienne's motivations behind letting Stannis live.

 

[tdogg2k]

Fyi him being dead or alive has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion of the show.
He'll more than likely die sometime any way.

But how do you justify riding for jom snow to be alive or coming back. But stannis being alive is beyond the realm of possibility? ????

Especially IMO. BOTH of their roles in the story are equally as important

 

[nako xl]

 
But in season two Theon didn't find them. So it was easier to believe it wasn't them and you find out the truth minutes after.

In Stannis's case. He was injured, Brienne finds him, and swings her sword at him.  

I will say that the whole not on screen death means they're not dead kinda mess up the Stannis death.

@WorldBreaker, why are you even entertaining this foolishness?

Name one character on this show who has died off screen, minor or otherwise. Name one character who was available for filming, filmed a death scene, and then was actually confirmed dead.

Then give me one plausible/logical explanation why a show known for it's extreme violence and criticized for violence that occurred in that very same episode, would decide not to kill a character on screen.

Other less important characters who are still alive in the books were killed on screen and then showed dead AFTER in the following episode to confirm to you they're gone, but one of the three most important characters in both the tv series and book is threatened with death and then no one actually sees or confirms his death except two characters who in the same breath go "well... I actually didn't see it..."

So why would the show, in a Winterfell subplot that has now had what 4 faked deaths, decide to again not show a death and then have the two characters who would benefit the most from that death celebrate it then go wait but uh we actually don't know who did it? Maybe it's the writer in me, but the framing of that shot, the failure to confirm it's completion, and the very specific wording of the one conversation about it after wards can not be accidental.

Maybe they were going to bring Stannis back then changed their minds and decided to just leave him dead. They definitely about faced on what they had planned for Dorne.

But the whole "why are you entertaining this nonsense" thing is super condescending and kind of annoying. particularly when, unlike R+L=J there is literally ZERO evidence that Brienne followed through with killing Stannis but rather what seems like tons of evidence that the show runners want us to think he might still be alive.

We see Brienne swing her sword and that's it. We see EVERY dead body in Stannis's army but him. We never see Brienne turn and chase Sansa but we see her arrive just in time, but still no Stannis body. The one mention of Stannis's death is immediately followed by a "but we didn't see who did it or how they did it." And again, literally no character on Game of thrones has had their death yada yada'd off screen. Even people who are killed off screen in the books (Jojen) are shown dying in the show. So you know that they are dead.

But they intended to end one of the main driving plot points and point of view characters in the shows with an off screen beheading and then don't show us the head? Yeah, I'm not as sold on that as you guys are.

Dog, the kennel master's daughter was thrown off a castle wall and lands on stone and they make sure to show us her dead body and Ramsay says "you died" so we know it's for sure. We get a monologue about her and find out what's going to happen with her remains. We see the dead body of the old lady that tried to conspire with Sansa. We see the dead body's of all of his victims. But he's not going to even mention flaying or mutilating his chief antagonist Stannis Baratheon? Just "good job killing stannis, wait who killed him? do you know? oh well."

Yeah. Ok.

/rant

 

[harlemtothebronx]

Agree with Nako.

The writers know what they're doing. My ears perked up too when I heard the conversation between Ramsay and Roose. I really don't see why they confirm that basically no one knows what happened to Stannis other than them wanting to keep that story open.

 

[nako xl]

There's also an interesting theory in a game of thrones sub reddit that Selyse knew that Melisandre was an old woman because she was a true believer of the lord of light and Mel never used tricks with her, but that since we the viewers (and Stannis) were not true converts we still saw the illusion.

 

[tdogg2k]

Repped Nako.
Idk why people act like im the most extremist radical poster in the song of ice and fire discussions...

Also lets not forget stannis was a Noble /king
So they def wouldn't have just left him in the woods especially if he was confirmed dead. Yea it was only ep 1 and maybe they just havent showed it. But whats the chances of them not have showing it if he was.

 

[Barbados Slim]

 
Name one character on this show who has died off screen, minor or otherwise. Name one character who was available for filming, filmed a death scene, and then was actually confirmed dead.

Then give me one plausible/logical explanation why a show known for it's extreme violence and criticized for violence that occurred in that very same episode, would decide not to kill a character on screen.

Other less important characters who are still alive in the books were killed on screen and then showed dead AFTER in the following episode to confirm to you they're gone, but one of the three most important characters in both the tv series and book is threatened with death and then no one actually sees or confirms his death except two characters who in the same breath go "well... I actually didn't see it..."

So why would the show, in a Winterfell subplot that has now had what 4 faked deaths, decide to again not show a death and then have the two characters who would benefit the most from that death celebrate it then go wait but uh we actually don't know who did it? Maybe it's the writer in me, but the framing of that shot, the failure to confirm it's completion, and the very specific wording of the one conversation about it after wards can not be accidental.

Maybe they were going to bring Stannis back then changed their minds and decided to just leave him dead. They definitely about faced on what they had planned for Dorne.

But the whole "why are you entertaining this nonsense" thing is super condescending and kind of annoying. particularly when, unlike R+L=J there is literally ZERO evidence that Brienne followed through with killing Stannis but rather what seems like tons of evidence that the show runners want us to think he might still be alive.

We see Brienne swing her sword and that's it. We see EVERY dead body in Stannis's army but him. We never see Brienne turn and chase Sansa but we see her arrive just in time, but still no Stannis body. The one mention of Stannis's death is immediately followed by a "but we didn't see who did it or how they did it." And again, literally no character on Game of thrones has had their death yada yada'd off screen. Even people who are killed off screen in the books (Jojen) are shown dying in the show. So you know that they are dead.

But they intended to end one of the main driving plot points and point of view characters in the shows with an off screen beheading and then don't show us the head? Yeah, I'm not as sold on that as you guys are.

Dog, the kennel master's daughter was thrown off a castle wall and lands on stone and they make sure to show us her dead body and Ramsay says "you died" so we know it's for sure. We get a monologue about her and find out what's going to happen with her remains. We see the dead body of the old lady that tried to conspire with Sansa. We see the dead body's of all of his victims. But he's not going to even mention flaying or mutilating his chief antagonist Stannis Baratheon? Just "good job killing stannis, wait who killed him? do you know? oh well."

Yeah. Ok.

/rant

Damn Brah! I did say the no death on screen screws things

, but there's more evidence to him being dead then being alive in my opinion. It seems like the only evidence you have to him being alive is that all other characters died on screen which is valid. Don't get me wrong.

The line from Roose to Ramsey was about WHO killed Stannis not did you see Stannis die, then the convo transitions into finding Sansa who later is rescued by Brienne the very person Roose and Ramsey are talking about. I do wonder why they didn't just show him die, but I have a feeling we'll see his flied body in the next episode. 

But how do you justify riding for jom snow to be alive or coming back. But stannis being alive is beyond the realm of possibility? ????

Especially IMO. BOTH of their roles in the story are equally as important

It's not beyond the realm of possibility and Jon Snow is dead, but that doesn't mean he won't come back. We all know revival is possible in this realm. They were both important characters but after last season don't you think Stannis's story arc is kinda finished? What's left for him even if he does live? 

 

[elvaquero87]

Not saying this is definitive proof but Weiss and Benioff have stated that Stannis is done. They say that about Jon Snow too but we all know he's coming back. The actor who plays Stannis, Stephen Dillane, has also done an interview where he talks about how much he didn't like being on the show. If he was still under contract or getting checks I don't think he would be speaking out like that. Putting two and two together I firmly believe he is gone.

 

[tdogg2k]

Theres more evidence to jon being dead with no possibility coming back. But yet yall still ride for resurrection.
(Knowing melisandre doesn't have that power)

 

[Barbados Slim]

Theres more evidence to jon being dead with no possibility coming back. But yet yall still ride for resurrection.
(Knowing melisandre doesn't have that power)

Ya but Thoros didn't know he had that power either. He just said the words and boom Berc is alive again.

 

[tdogg2k]

Ya but Thoros didn't know he had that power either. He just said the words and boom Berc is alive again.

Do you really not see the contradiction we're talking about. How hard yall riding for this resurrection? But stannis is 100%dead.......
(Come on)
Also lets be fair. From what we know beric was freshly cut down. Possibly still had a sliver of life in him for the lord of lifht to restore his powers.
Jons been confirmed dead for a full day at the least

So where is this "more probability" that he can come back?

 

[shogun]

You're too in your feels with those 2 characters. None of us know what the hell the rules are or the paramters for people being brought back from the dead. The show doesn't explain it. The books might not explain it either.

 

[Barbados Slim]

Do you really not see the contradiction we're talking about. How hard yall riding for this resurrection? But stannis is 100%dead.......
(Come on)
Also lets be fair. From what we know beric was freshly cut down. Possibly still had a sliver of life in him for the lord of lifht to restore his powers.
Jons been confirmed dead for a full day at the least

So where is this "more probability" that he can come back?

They're both 100% dead IMO just one has more of a chance of coming back. If there was a character who might have the ability to resurrect someone and she was closer to one dead character than the other, then wouldn't you say the closest dead character has a better chance of being resurrected?

I know what you're gonna say. As far as we know Mel doesn't have that ability and you're right. If we go by only what facts that are in the show and books then Jon is dead period, but you know how important prophecy is to this story and Azor Ahai is one of them that judging by the clues in the book more than likely pertains to Jon.