So I Got Into An Argument At The Gym... VOl. D rose

[ballislife32688]

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

I dont know if people are just not keeping it real but its simple to see. There is no doubt Chris Paul and Derron Williams are currently the best, but by no means were either one of them that good at 20 years old.

lol, wut?

please let me know what makes u think they were that good at 20 years old.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

I dont know if people are just not keeping it real but its simple to see. There is no doubt Chris Paul and Derron Williams are currently the best, but by no means were either one of them that good at 20 years old.

lol, wut?

please let me know what makes u think they were that good at 20 years old.

Certainly you can't be talking about the Chris Paul that came into the league @ 20 and put up the same amount of Pts plus more Assits andRebounds than Rose.

Naaaaaah, there must be some other Chris Paul.

w/ a roster that was arguably worse than the Bulls are currently.

Nah, not that one. HAS to be another Chris Paul.

 

[airmaxpenny1]

Either way seeing those guys dominate the PG spot for the next 5-6 years will be a pleasure to watch.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Wow some of you are watching WAAAAYYY to much espn. I'm not saying he IS better but it's not crazy to say he is either. With the #1 reason being he actually runs an offense as opposed to running around the court until someone gets open. Deron is also a better shooter..maybe a better scorer. Passing is literally a wash. Deron also is a better on ball defender...that doesn't mean a better defender period tho. CP3 has shown a better ability to lead so he would get the nod for that aspect alone. HOWEVER they are soooo close in everything that it's laughable to say either is that much better than the other. CP3 reminds me of Nash in D'antoni's offense in that he runs alot of high pick and roll....and he dribbles around alot, can't shoot as well and is a better defender/rebounder. DWill reminds me more of a JKidd in that he runs a very disciplined offense, he can shoot WAAY better but is nowhere near the rebounder that Kidd is. At the end of the day it's going to come down to preference.

This @@#* is soo annoying... It seems like more and more people on this board use this statement to open up an argument about hoops.

Please let me know, what does that have to do with the point you are trying to prove? You just felt like saying it didnt you?

Uh....being that the Hornets aren't on national tv THAT much alot of opinions are going to be based off of highlights(ESPN) and the analystson there. So yeah it was relevant...what wasn't relevant was you bolding it as if it was some invalid point or like people DON'T base their opinionsoff of ESPN. Also....you didn't even address any of the rest of the post soooo clearly my argument isn't laughable.

 

[ballislife32688]

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

I dont know if people are just not keeping it real but its simple to see. There is no doubt Chris Paul and Derron Williams are currently the best, but by no means were either one of them that good at 20 years old.

lol, wut?

please let me know what makes u think they were that good at 20 years old.

Certainly you can't be talking about the Chris Paul that came into the league @ 20 and put up the same amount of Pts plus more Assits and Rebounds than Rose.

Naaaaaah, there must be some other Chris Paul.

w/ a roster that was arguably worse than the Bulls are currently.

Nah, not that one. HAS to be another Chris Paul.

typical response, im not sure what you know and dont know about basketball but stats by no means tell a full story, kobe byrant numbers are down and isconsidered right now at the peak of his game. Lebrons numbers are all down from a year ago, have you seen the cavs record. Stats dont say it all.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

typical response, im not sure what you know and dont know about basketball but stats by no means tell a full story, kobe byrant numbers are down and is considered right now at the peak of his game. Lebrons numbers are all down from a year ago, have you seen the cavs record. Stats dont say it all.

Where did I ever say that they did?

But if Chris Paul wasn't as good @ 20 as Pooh is, wouldn't the stats tell that somewhat? Wouldn't there be some facet of the game where he would beobviously superior?

Typical response my %%*

 

[ballislife32688]

Originally Posted by dreClark

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

typical response, im not sure what you know and dont know about basketball but stats by no means tell a full story, kobe byrant numbers are down and is considered right now at the peak of his game. Lebrons numbers are all down from a year ago, have you seen the cavs record. Stats dont say it all.

Where did I ever say that they did?

But if Chris Paul wasn't as good @ 20 as Pooh is, wouldn't the stats tell that somewhat? Wouldn't there be some facet of the game where he would be obviously superior?

Typical response my %%*

true I'll give you that, it just seems at Pooh age and and the level he is already playing on its easy to see he could be better than chris paul, I ask youthis have you ever seen a player with pooh combination of skills at the PG position.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

With the #1 reason being he actually runs an offense as opposed to running around the court until someone gets open.
Total generalization, this is the NBA stop pretending like you are the Hornets assistant coach, just because it looks one way don't everassume that is what it is.

Assuming we believe this sillygeneralization it still doesn't matter because he produced more than Deron even with a simple offense.

Deron is also a better shooter..maybe a better scorer.

Chris Paul might the most efficient scorer in the NBA,he produces 22 points a games on 50% shooting from the PG position. His True Shooting percentage (Combination of free throw shooting%, 2 pointers and 3's)is 60%, Derons is 57%. I don't care if he is a better shooter when Chris Paul scores the rock better than him.

Chris Paul scores 124 points per 100 possessions, Deron scores 116.

Passing is literally a wash.
I don't agree but whatever but I will say this the hornets rely on Chris Paul more to facilitate there offense.

Deron also is a better on ball defender...that doesn't mean a better defender period tho.
This is so unbelievably wrong.

THE JAZZ ARE A BAD DEFENSIVE TEAM. People think they play defense because they are the Jazz but they don't Deron THE POINT GAURD on this BAD defensiveteam gives up more points per 100 possesion than anybody else on the team.

CP3 has shown a better ability to lead so he would get the nod for that aspect alone. HOWEVER they are soooo close in everything that it's laughable to say either is that much better than the other.

[h3]Advanced[/h3]Glossary [emoji]9642[/emoji] CSV [emoji]9642[/emoji] PRE [emoji]9642[/emoji] Click column headers to sort
[table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Player[/th] [th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]PER[/th] [th=""]TS%[/th] [th=""]eFG%[/th] [th=""]ORB%[/th] [th=""]DRB%[/th] [th=""]TRB%[/th] [th=""]AST%[/th] [th=""]STL%[/th] [th=""]BLK%[/th] [th=""]TOV%[/th] [th=""]USG%[/th] [th=""]ORtg[/th] [th=""]DRtg[/th] [th=""]OWS[/th] [th=""]DWS[/th] [th=""]WS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]Chris Paul[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]3002[/td] [td]30.0[/td] [td].599[/td] [td].528[/td] [td]2.8[/td] [td]14.6[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]54.5[/td] [td]3.9[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]13.5[/td] [td]27.5[/td] [td]124[/td] [td]103[/td] [td]12.8[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [td]17.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]Deron Williams[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]2505[/td] [td]21.1[/td] [td].573[/td] [td].506[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]47.8[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [td]24.7[/td] [td]116[/td] [td]111[/td] [td]6.6[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]8.5[/td] [/tr][/table]

He is grades out to be better than him in every way. but please I know you are going to say the numbers are !@##[email protected] go a head and exxplain to me how theyare.

 

[i nasmatic i]

Deron Williams is my favorite player, but he's not better than Chris Paul. They are very similar in many areas, but Paul is a much better rebounder anddisrupts other teams' offense more.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Wow some of you are watching WAAAAYYY to much espn. I'm not saying he IS better but it's not crazy to say he is either. With the #1 reason being he actually runs an offense as opposed to running around the court until someone gets open. Deron is also a better shooter..maybe a better scorer. Passing is literally a wash. Deron also is a better on ball defender...that doesn't mean a better defender period tho. CP3 has shown a better ability to lead so he would get the nod for that aspect alone. HOWEVER they are soooo close in everything that it's laughable to say either is that much better than the other. CP3 reminds me of Nash in D'antoni's offense in that he runs alot of high pick and roll....and he dribbles around alot, can't shoot as well and is a better defender/rebounder. DWill reminds me more of a JKidd in that he runs a very disciplined offense, he can shoot WAAY better but is nowhere near the rebounder that Kidd is. At the end of the day it's going to come down to preference.

This @@#* is soo annoying... It seems like more and more people on this board use this statement to open up an argument about hoops.

Please let me know, what does that have to do with the point you are trying to prove? You just felt like saying it didnt you?

Uh....being that the Hornets aren't on national tv THAT much alot of opinions are going to be based off of highlights(ESPN) and the analysts on there. So yeah it was relevant...what wasn't relevant was you bolding it as if it was some invalid point or like people DON'T base their opinions off of ESPN. Also....you didn't even address any of the rest of the post soooo clearly my argument isn't laughable.

Osh Kosh just replied for me

And since me and him NEVER agree on anything that should tell you something

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

With the #1 reason being he actually runs an offense as opposed to running around the court until someone gets open.

Total generalization, this is the NBA stop pretending like you are the Hornets assistant coach, just because it looks one way don't ever assume that is what it is.

Assuming we believe this silly generalization it still doesn't matter because he produced more than Deron even with a simple offense.

Deron is also a better shooter..maybe a better scorer.

Chris Paul might the most efficient scorer in the NBA, he produces 22 points a games on 50% shooting from the PG position. His True Shooting percentage (Combination of free throw shooting%, 2 pointers and 3's) is 60%, Derons is 57%. I don't care if he is a better shooter when Chris Paul scores the rock better than him.

Chris Paul scores 124 points per 100 possessions, Deron scores 116.

Passing is literally a wash.
I don't agree but whatever but I will say this the hornets rely on Chris Paul more to facilitate there offense.

Deron also is a better on ball defender...that doesn't mean a better defender period tho.
This is so unbelievably wrong.

THE JAZZ ARE A BAD DEFENSIVE TEAM. People think they play defense because they are the Jazz but they don't Deron THE POINT GAURD on this BAD defensive team gives up more points per 100 possesion than anybody else on the team.

CP3 has shown a better ability to lead so he would get the nod for that aspect alone. HOWEVER they are soooo close in everything that it's laughable to say either is that much better than the other.

[h3]Advanced[/h3]Glossary [emoji]9642[/emoji] CSV [emoji]9642[/emoji] PRE [emoji]9642[/emoji] Click column headers to sort
[table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Player[/th] [th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]PER[/th] [th=""]TS%[/th] [th=""]eFG%[/th] [th=""]ORB%[/th] [th=""]DRB%[/th] [th=""]TRB%[/th] [th=""]AST%[/th] [th=""]STL%[/th] [th=""]BLK%[/th] [th=""]TOV%[/th] [th=""]USG%[/th] [th=""]ORtg[/th] [th=""]DRtg[/th] [th=""]OWS[/th] [th=""]DWS[/th] [th=""]WS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]Chris Paul[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]3002[/td] [td]30.0[/td] [td].599[/td] [td].528[/td] [td]2.8[/td] [td]14.6[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]54.5[/td] [td]3.9[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]13.5[/td] [td]27.5[/td] [td]124[/td] [td]103[/td] [td]12.8[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [td]17.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]Deron Williams[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]2505[/td] [td]21.1[/td] [td].573[/td] [td].506[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]47.8[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [td]24.7[/td] [td]116[/td] [td]111[/td] [td]6.6[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]8.5[/td] [/tr][/table]

He is grades out to be better than him in every way. but please I know you are going to say the numbers are !@##[email protected] go a head and exxplain to me how they are.

I never ever ever ever pay attention the PER stat....but ok for this I will. CP3 is more efficient...did I ever disagree with that? Now of coursehe produces more than Deron...being that he has the ball pretty much more than ANYONE else in the league. You give any elite PG the freedom to roam like CP3does and they are going to put up numbers. I don't know why you went so hard on the scoring when I said MAYBE abetter scorer...but we know who's a better shooter so....that stat was a bit pointless. Care to explain how passing isn't a wash. And relying onsomeone to facilatate is not the same thing as court vision. Jose Calderon is a heck of a facilitator...if I remember correctly you made a thread last seasonabout how his ast to to ratio was the highest(by far) of all PG's...that doesn't make him the best passer in the league now does it? Nah...didn'tthink so. Oh and lets take into account that D Wil was hurt this year, played 10 less games...and wasn't really effective when he did come back. Like Isaid before neither of them is that much better than the other to call it. They are that close.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Advanced
Glossary [emoji]9642[/emoji] CSV [emoji]9642[/emoji] PRE [emoji]9642[/emoji] Click column headers to sort
[table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Player[/th] [th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]PER[/th] [th=""]TS%[/th] [th=""]eFG%[/th] [th=""]ORB%[/th] [th=""]DRB%[/th] [th=""]TRB%[/th] [th=""]AST%[/th] [th=""]STL%[/th] [th=""]BLK%[/th] [th=""]TOV%[/th] [th=""]USG%[/th] [th=""]ORtg[/th] [th=""]DRtg[/th] [th=""]OWS[/th] [th=""]DWS[/th] [th=""]WS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]Chris Paul[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]3002[/td] [td]30.0[/td] [td].599[/td] [td].528[/td] [td]2.8[/td] [td]14.6[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]54.5[/td] [td]3.9[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]13.5[/td] [td]27.5[/td] [td]124[/td] [td]103[/td] [td]12.8[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [td]17.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]Deron Williams[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]2505[/td] [td]21.1[/td] [td].573[/td] [td].506[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]47.8[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [td]24.7[/td] [td]116[/td] [td]111[/td] [td]6.6[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]8.5[/td] [/tr][/table]

He is grades out to be better than him in every way. but please I know you are going to say the numbers are !@##[email protected] go a head and exxplain to me how they are.

I never ever ever ever pay attention the PER stat....but ok for this I will. CP3 is more efficient...did I ever disagree with that? Now of course he produces more than Deron...being that he has the ball pretty much more than ANYONE else in the league. You give any elite PG the freedom to roam like CP3 does and they are going to put up numbers. I don't know why you went so hard on the scoring when I said MAYBE a better scorer...but we know who's a better shooter so....that stat was a bit pointless. Care to explain how passing isn't a wash. And relying on someone to facilatate is not the same thing as court vision. Jose Calderon is a heck of a facilitator...if I remember correctly you made a thread last season about how his ast to to ratio was the highest(by far) of all PG's...that doesn't make him the best passer in the league now does it? Nah...didn't think so. Oh and lets take into account that D Wil was hurt this year, played 10 less games...and wasn't really effective when he did come back. Like I said before neither of them is that much better than the other to call it. They are that close.

Look at the USG% thats the percentage of offensive possession the player uses, Deron uses damn near the same amount of possessions as him so thewhole Paul has the ball in his hands way more is moot.

Passing wise? "court vision" is so subjective but 82 games has a passer rating stat based on the types of assists.

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[size=-1]the gist is to reward passes leading to successful shots from close range at a higher rate than assisted outside shots, whileincluding the rate of passing turnovers.[/size]

They are both very good passers, in fact Paul is just slightly better.

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by Osh Kosh Bosh

Advanced
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[table][tr][th=""]Rk[/th] [th=""]Player[/th] [th=""]Season[/th] [th=""]Age[/th] [th=""]G[/th] [th=""]MP[/th] [th=""]PER[/th] [th=""]TS%[/th] [th=""]eFG%[/th] [th=""]ORB%[/th] [th=""]DRB%[/th] [th=""]TRB%[/th] [th=""]AST%[/th] [th=""]STL%[/th] [th=""]BLK%[/th] [th=""]TOV%[/th] [th=""]USG%[/th] [th=""]ORtg[/th] [th=""]DRtg[/th] [th=""]OWS[/th] [th=""]DWS[/th] [th=""]WS[/th] [/tr][tr][td]1[/td] [td]Chris Paul[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]23[/td] [td]78[/td] [td]3002[/td] [td]30.0[/td] [td].599[/td] [td].528[/td] [td]2.8[/td] [td]14.6[/td] [td]8.7[/td] [td]54.5[/td] [td]3.9[/td] [td]0.3[/td] [td]13.5[/td] [td]27.5[/td] [td]124[/td] [td]103[/td] [td]12.8[/td] [td]4.7[/td] [td]17.5[/td] [/tr][tr][td]2[/td] [td]Deron Williams[/td] [td]2008-09[/td] [td]24[/td] [td]68[/td] [td]2505[/td] [td]21.1[/td] [td].573[/td] [td].506[/td] [td]1.1[/td] [td]8.2[/td] [td]4.6[/td] [td]47.8[/td] [td]1.5[/td] [td]0.6[/td] [td]16.5[/td] [td]24.7[/td] [td]116[/td] [td]111[/td] [td]6.6[/td] [td]1.9[/td] [td]8.5[/td] [/tr][/table]

He is grades out to be better than him in every way. but please I know you are going to say the numbers are !@##[email protected] go a head and exxplain to me how they are.

I never ever ever ever pay attention the PER stat....but ok for this I will. CP3 is more efficient...did I ever disagree with that? Now of course he produces more than Deron...being that he has the ball pretty much more than ANYONE else in the league. You give any elite PG the freedom to roam like CP3 does and they are going to put up numbers. I don't know why you went so hard on the scoring when I said MAYBE a better scorer...but we know who's a better shooter so....that stat was a bit pointless. Care to explain how passing isn't a wash. And relying on someone to facilatate is not the same thing as court vision. Jose Calderon is a heck of a facilitator...if I remember correctly you made a thread last season about how his ast to to ratio was the highest(by far) of all PG's...that doesn't make him the best passer in the league now does it? Nah...didn't think so. Oh and lets take into account that D Wil was hurt this year, played 10 less games...and wasn't really effective when he did come back. Like I said before neither of them is that much better than the other to call it. They are that close.

Look at the USG% thats the percentage of offensive possession the player uses, Deron uses damn near the same amount of possessions as him so the whole Paul has the ball in his hands way more is moot.

Passing wise? "court vision" is so subjective but 82 games has a passer rating stat based on the types of assists.

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[size=-1]the gist is to reward passes leading to successful shots from close range at a higher rate than assisted outside shots, while including the rate of passing turnovers.[/size]

They are both very good passers, in fact Paul is just slightly better.

Fine but slighty makes it pretty much a wash...which is what I orginally said. Really your strengthening my case. There really isn't anythingthat CP3 does that much better than D Wil that makes the statement Deron> Chris laughable. And vice versa.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Defense, Derron plays absolutely none while Paul is probably the second best defensive point in the league behind Rondo.

 

[kidoopz]

Originally Posted by kidoopz

Im not going to read through all of it.. But, If I were the Bulls I would not trade Derrick Rose for those pg's either.. Not saying he's better then them individually at this point, but who is to say he won't improve.. This is only his rookie year and I believe he will be one of the top point guards easy.. Mike conley right behind

... Followed by Ramon Sessions ..
Honestly though.. Derrick Rose is already improving his jumper, just needs to work more on his defense.. I mean he's a rookie lol.. Dude is basically the future of the league..

Once again I'm not reading through all this hoopla.. If people actually believe Deron Williams is a better point guard let alone player thanChris Paul it's their opinion.. Not much people would validate it as being fact though

..

 

[jordan supreme]

Originally Posted by Mateen Cleaves

Originally Posted by tmukg21

no way you trade D.rose

Dwill>>>CP3>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Rose

/thread

 

[bangdak]

osh, with 3 seconds left, who would you leave to take the shot? deron or cp3?
cp3's shooting percentage may be higher, but he doesnt take as much shots (dont quote me on this)
as of right now, of course i would take deron and cp3 over cp3. but you would have to consider, will drose hit a rookie wall?
this guy's athleticism is crazy, and if he develops into an even more explosive pg then he already is, it'll definitely be debatable.

 

[jefffort5]

the whole argument is do u trade d.rose?? and the answer is no

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by BangDak

osh, with 3 seconds left, who would you leave to take the shot? deron or cp3?
cp3's shooting percentage may be higher, but he doesnt take as much shots (dont quote me on this)
as of right now, of course i would take deron and cp3 over cp3. but you would have to consider, will drose hit a rookie wall?
this guy's athleticism is crazy, and if he develops into an even more explosive pg then he already is, it'll definitely be debatable.

Judging players based on who would take the last shot is so flawed. I judge players based on the entire wealth of their talents not onehypothetical situation. Plus according to 82games clutch stats has Paul over Deron in terms of scoring.

As far as shooting.

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In terms of shooting Paul is hitting at a better percentage in terms of midrange and 3p% and Deron is supposed to be a better shooter?

 

[mayhemmonkey000]

I can't believe people are arguing this. Paul is better at every single facet of the game then Williams and Rose. Let's stop this hog wash already.

 

[JAYxSF415]

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

I can't believe people are arguing this. Paul is better at every single facet of the game then Williams and Rose. Let's stop this hog wash already.

 

[mayhemmonkey000]

Originally Posted by chillainvillain

Originally Posted by MayhemMonkey000

I can't believe people are arguing this. Paul is better at every single facet of the game then Williams and Rose. Let's stop this hog wash already.

LOL GOT ME! Tell me where Williams is better... Williams isn't surpassing Paul in any category. The only part where I see it's a wash ispassing, but Paul is the better one on one defender and help defender and he's the most efficient scorer at the point next to Tony Parker.

 

[nkeair]

CP3 > D Will

its true because in NBA 2k9, Chris Paul has a higher rating than DWill

 

[poeticjays]

Rose isn't in D.Will or CP3's class yet, but his ceiling is higher than either of them. He has Lebron-like athleticism at the PG position, give it acouple years, and I think he'll be better than Deron Williams. Deron williams in college was nowhere near this good.

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by yungmatt

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Wow some of you are watching WAAAAYYY to much espn. I'm not saying he IS better but it's not crazy to say he is either. With the #1 reason being he actually runs an offense as opposed to running around the court until someone gets open. Deron is also a better shooter..maybe a better scorer. Passing is literally a wash. Deron also is a better on ball defender...that doesn't mean a better defender period tho. CP3 has shown a better ability to lead so he would get the nod for that aspect alone. HOWEVER they are soooo close in everything that it's laughable to say either is that much better than the other. CP3 reminds me of Nash in D'antoni's offense in that he runs alot of high pick and roll....and he dribbles around alot, can't shoot as well and is a better defender/rebounder. DWill reminds me more of a JKidd in that he runs a very disciplined offense, he can shoot WAAY better but is nowhere near the rebounder that Kidd is. At the end of the day it's going to come down to preference.

This @@#* is soo annoying... It seems like more and more people on this board use this statement to open up an argument about hoops.

Please let me know, what does that have to do with the point you are trying to prove? You just felt like saying it didnt you?

I ain't even responding to dudes that throw this %%#@around anymore... Dudes acting like there ain't this thing I can order that'll let me watch damn near every damn game over the course of a season...

And as far as "Deron Williams actually runs an offense" ...

Get outta here, you're in over your head and clearly don't understand what you're talkin about...

And when has Jason Kidd ever ran a slow-paced, disciplined offense and been successful? Kidd has NEVER played well in that kinda offense... Hell, when has heever even played in a slow paced offense like Utah's? Comparing the two based off that aspect only furthers the notion that you don't know whatyou're talkin about...