So I Got Into An Argument At The Gym... VOl. D rose

[arrjae]

Originally Posted by bigboi9015

i agree with you but rose still has alot to learn

 

[carlosnwa]

Like someone previously said, Lets say in 5 or 6 years Rose becomes better than Paul and Williams. How much better will he be? Paul is averaging 21 and 11,leading the league in steals. Williams is averaging something like 19 or 20 and 10 assists while being a better one on one defender than Paul cause of hissize. Can you guys really see Rose averaging better numbers than that? What? 25 and 15? Doubt it. Hes an incredible talent and a freak of nature but I doubtthat he will be better than both Paul and Williams. Maybe on par with them but better than them? Possible but doubt it.

 

[yungchris504]

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

Originally Posted by yungchris504

Originally Posted by Seymore CAKE

While Pooh may have better individual players, thats just it they play for themselves not their role or strengths, this is partly due to coaching. Chris has an all star in David west and a defensive presence in Tyson (where the +#%@ was this while you were here you douche) and legit shooters and everybody knows their role which makes for a more cohesive unit and allows him to succeed.


This is what it comes down to when having a conversation like this. You fail to realize or take into consideration that Pooh would be a sophmore in college right now. He is far more advanced at this age/baskietball yrs playing than they were. Chris had two yrs to develop in college and Deron had 3 so you would expect them to be more defined as players than he is.

However if you judge them at the same levels interms of age/amount of time playing (ala at 19/20 Chris v Deron v Derrick) He's the no brainer as to who's better. In two yrs we'll see what his work ethic is like and how he develops(he's already improved his jumpshot tremendously which is a good sign) but as of right now, I might be reserved in keeping Pooh and if it came back to bite me in the *!# that would just be a chance I'd have to take.

With out Chris Paul Tyson would just be another rebounder. I don't know if you watch many of the games but he really does benefit from having CP. I mean we are missing two starters and he is still doing what he is doing and it is simpily amazing. Yes we don't know how D.Rose will pan out but at this point if I was the bull GM I would take that trade in a heart beat. The players on your team are far more talented than what N.O has with the exception of David West. You guys have Hinrich, Gordon, Ty, Salmos(SP?), Noah, Miller, and Deng. Not counting west our only other talented person is JuJu and Bop. The only reason we are winning is as you said is because these players know their roles but you can not honestly believe that CP3 would not at the minimum bump them up to a top 4 team in the East.

1) I'm not sure if you actually read what I typed or just saw I named some players and then just began typing but anyway, I've seen plenty of Tyson he was a bull for 4yrs and I still believe he's some piss on the offensive end so his production on that end is definitely attributed to Chris and I never denied that. I said his defensive presence as a shot blocker and on the boards is something Pooh doesn't have and desperately needs. Knowing you have a 7 foot shot blocker protecting the goal allows you to be more aggressive with on ball defense as well as the passing lanes because you have somewhat of a safety net. It aids your ability to play defense.

2) You're talking about talent I'm talking about cohesiveness which is something that is as important if not more important. I don't care if you have 5 players with all star ability, if they aren't willing to submit to the team and channel their ability to help the team progress then ultimately they won't be %%@#. I'm not sure if you watch many bulls games but everybody on that court minus Pooh, Brad Miller, and Tyrus as of late are solely concerned with getting theirs. Everybody has their own agenda. Kirk trying to prove that he should still be the starting point guard, Ben is playing for a contract, Deng is just satisfied that he got his contract so he's just there, Tim Thomas plays whenever the hell he wants too, Salmons is trying to prove to everyone that he's an elite guard.

There is no team atmosphere, no cohesiveness everybody is for self, and nobody has a defined role. Not taking anything away from Chris or Deron but this is something that you can't say about the Hornets or the Jazz.

No I read what you wrote. And yes I do agree Chandler is a defensive presence in the paint he is no different than what Tyrus Thomas gives youguys (i don't watch many bulls games but what I have seen are aggression on blocks and boards). Pretty much the only thing I am posing is we know the dudeis talented but will he make his team better or just be another AI. We wont know for a few years as I said earlier. And to the knowing the roles portion yesthey are managing to win with a less talented roster but that wont equal to rings bruh.

 

[d723]

One thing that I'd really like to see changed in S&T is the ridiculous amount of threads debating hypothetical arguments.

Will Derrick end up being better than CP3 and Deron? No one knows, we'll have to see in a few years. Until then let's appreciate what he has done sofar and will continue to do.

Leave it at that.

 

[jefffort5]

had to bump this thread cuz soo many ppl was hating on rose in here

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Chill out Illi

 

[N41D]

Derrick Rose is Allen Iverson...

Chris Paul is just a 'good' point guard...

Someone said Deron Williams > Chris Paul...

 

[antbanks81]

and I don't know why they hating...The kid s a beast, lets be straight up on that. No one is stopping him from getting to the paint NO ONE...He has led theBulls back to the playoffs. Yeh D will and CP have great #s. Rose might top those #s or stay on par, but he will be recognized as a top 3 PG for the nextdecade. We can continue this debate more after seeing the 2012 Dream Team. Until then lets just enjoy all three and see who leads their team to a championshipfirst. I might be biased but I say it will be us.

Oh and HELL NAWWHHH I wouldn't trade a 20 yo Rose for D will and CP when they 25 and 24 respectively.

 

[ireminisce]

deron williams > chris paul > > drose.

 

[jstar25]

Am I the crazy the one?
#!*$ yeah you are CrAzY!

D. Rose is 20 and is only going to get better, how you gonna put his ceiling beneath anyone after his rookie campaign?

Your Basketball IQ = 0


For all you D Williams fans go look at his rookie numbers and look at Derricks. Derricks numbers are between Williams' and Paul's rookie numbers.

 

[vctry20]

I wouldn't trade Rose away so soon just based on the fact that it is still early in his career, he just had a great rookie year and you don't reallyknow how good he can potentially be

 

[jsindaa]

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Derrick Rose is Allen Iverson...

Chris Paul is just a 'good' point guard...

Someone said Deron Williams > Chris Paul...

Uh.....that one is not crazy...definitely not laughable crazy.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by JStar25

Am I the crazy the one?

#!*$ yeah you are CrAzY!

Your Basketball IQ = 0

 

[nycknicks105]

Well, Rose has a huge upside. He is only a rookie. Dude can drastically improve. Right now he isn't as good as CP3/Deron.

 

[bigmike23]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Derrick Rose is Allen Iverson...

Chris Paul is just a 'good' point guard...

Someone said Deron Williams > Chris Paul...

Uh.....that one is not crazy...definitely not laughable crazy.

 

[N41D]

Originally Posted by Bigmike23

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Derrick Rose is Allen Iverson...

Chris Paul is just a 'good' point guard...

Someone said Deron Williams > Chris Paul...

Uh.....that one is not crazy...definitely not laughable crazy.

Deron's my dude... But that is crazy...

Deron ain't better than Chris Paul. No way, no how... There ain't nothin he does better than Chris...

 

[noneofyours25]

You can't say Williams is better than Paul or vice versa and at this point you can't say Rose is better than them 2, but you can not say hes not realclose to being in that who is the best PG in the league debate

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Originally Posted by Nowitness41Dirk

Derrick Rose is Allen Iverson...

Chris Paul is just a 'good' point guard...

Someone said Deron Williams > Chris Paul...

Uh.....that one is not crazy...definitely not laughable crazy.

No it really isn't. Chris Paul may go down as the best ever Deron is just really really really good.

 

[yungmatt]

Chris Paul is without a doubt hands down the best point guard in the world right now.... Any argument IS laughable

 

[maxelite]

I agree with Nowitness on this one. Deron Williams doesnt actually do anything better than Chris Paul. I'd say he's more explosive and flashier butthat doesn't make him a better player than CP3.

But there's not a huge distance between the two.

 

[executive76]

@this thread

CP3 is a ({})

 

[ballislife32688]

I dont know if people are just not keeping it real but its simple to see. There is no doubt Chris Paul and Derron Williams are currently the best, but by nomeans were either one of them that good at 20 years old. Lets not forget 4 years is a long time to develop, think of a ball players development from freshmanyear to his senior year. Chris and derrons IQ is higher cuz they're more expierienced, off raw talent derrick rose is the clear winner. Also don't getit twisted Derrick Rose sometimes waits to take over the game, he could easily be averaging more than what he does. That killer instinct will definitelydevlope. Oh yea if you doubt how good Rose is for his age just look what he did his freshman year at memphis, stats dont impress but any true ball player couldsee.

 

[ThaxbyChamblis]

Originally Posted by ballislife32688

I dont know if people are just not keeping it real but its simple to see. There is no doubt Chris Paul and Derron Williams are currently the best, but by no means were either one of them that good at 20 years old.

lol, wut?

 

[jsindaa]

Wow some of you are watching WAAAAYYY to much espn. I'm not saying he IS better but it's not crazy to say he is either. With the #1 reason being heactually runs an offense as opposed to running around the court until someone gets open. Deron is also a better shooter..maybe a better scorer. Passing isliterally a wash. Deron also is a better on ball defender...that doesn't mean a better defender period tho. CP3 has shown a better ability to lead so hewould get the nod for that aspect alone. HOWEVER they are soooo close in everything that it's laughable to say either is that much better than the other.CP3 reminds me of Nash in D'antoni's offense in that he runs alot of high pick and roll....and he dribbles around alot, can't shoot as well and isa better defender/rebounder. DWill reminds me more of a JKidd in that he runs a very disciplined offense, he can shoot WAAY better but is nowhere near therebounder that Kidd is. At the end of the day it's going to come down to preference.

 

[yungmatt]

Originally Posted by JsindaA

Wow some of you are watching WAAAAYYY to much espn. I'm not saying he IS better but it's not crazy to say he is either. With the #1 reason being he actually runs an offense as opposed to running around the court until someone gets open. Deron is also a better shooter..maybe a better scorer. Passing is literally a wash. Deron also is a better on ball defender...that doesn't mean a better defender period tho. CP3 has shown a better ability to lead so he would get the nod for that aspect alone. HOWEVER they are soooo close in everything that it's laughable to say either is that much better than the other. CP3 reminds me of Nash in D'antoni's offense in that he runs alot of high pick and roll....and he dribbles around alot, can't shoot as well and is a better defender/rebounder. DWill reminds me more of a JKidd in that he runs a very disciplined offense, he can shoot WAAY better but is nowhere near the rebounder that Kidd is. At the end of the day it's going to come down to preference.

This @@#* is soo annoying... It seems like more and more people on this board use this statement to open up an argument about hoops.

Please let me know, what does that have to do with the point you are trying to prove? You just felt like saying it didnt you?