Senior Biden officials finding that Covid lab leak theory as credible as natural origins explanation

[heelsandeers]

I saw a vaccine ad on YouTube stating covid was the third leading cause of death in 2020. I wanna know what the first two was.

Heart disease and cancer

 

[gry60]

Heart disease and cancer

Wonder how many of those deaths could have been avoided with hospitals at normal capacity...

 

[waukeganwill]

J&J vaccine had some issues with it and was pulled promptly after that was out and was unavailable as a vaccine.

I got the J&J shot and literally the next morning they banned it lol I was ****** up

 

[cragmatic]

This the general air your covid grievances thread?



Confirmation bias >>>

People acting like they didn't concretely form their conclusions three years ago

I definitely have a very different perspective on it than I did this time 3 years ago.

I took a whole week of PTO at first because I was so scared, I was shook my first day going back into work.

Based on what I’ve seen, the conversations I’ve had, the number of elderly folks I speak with at my job that have had Covid and were fine, I DO think things were blown out of proportion when everything first started.

Maybe that first strain really was a lot worse than what it eventually mutated too, but the amount of fear I felt in March/April 2020 feels silly in hindsight.

I remember someone on NT posting that pic from O’Hare when everyone who was abroad came back at the same time, I was SHOOK thinking it was gonna jump from person to person like an insect cloning itself effortlessly, combine that with it being St Patrick’s day weekend, and then also saying that some people would show no symptoms for 14 days, but still be capable of spreading it for 14 days. They also said it could have an incubation period of 14 days. Then throw in they told us it lived on surfaces for 21 plus days.

Fast forward 3 years, many folks who have Covid don’t quarantine at all, if anything they wear a mask when they go out. I have encountered these types of people at my job as well. And Covid isn’t rapidly spreading like crazy, numbers are the lowest they’ve been basically since the start where I’m at.

We probably will never 100 percent know for sure though.

 

[gry60]

Based on what I’ve seen, the conversations I’ve had, the number of elderly folks I speak with at my job that have had Covid and we’re fine, I DO think things were blown out of proportion when everything first started.

Single data points are meaningless in the evaluation of trends. Public health policies rely on trends.

Fast forward 3 years, many folks who have Covid don’t quarantine at all, if anything they wear a mask when they go out.

Because most people got vaccinated.

The purpose of the vaccine was to reduce the severity of the infection. Initially, the vaccine worked well to prevent symptoms from occurring, and as the virus evolved faster than we could update the vaccine, the effect against infection waned, but the effectiveness against severe disease remained.

None of this should be hard to understand, but for some reason, it is.

 

[cragmatic]

Single data points are meaningless in the evaluation of trends. Public health policies rely on trends.


Because most people got vaccinated.

The purpose of the vaccine was to reduce the severity of the infection. Initially, the vaccine worked well to prevent symptoms from occurring, and as the virus evolved faster than we could update the vaccine, the effect against infection waned, but the effectiveness against severe disease remained.

None of this should be hard to understand, but for some reason, it is.

You mean the same vaccine that they told us stopped transmission but then later told us didn’t stop transmission?

I think you are also over estimating the number of people who got vaccinated. Covid is also still around and a lot of people who got the original vaccine in 2021 didn’t get boosted. But the efficacy of the vaccine wears off right?

Hmmm

 

[1995]

Viruses mutate extremely fast

 

[gry60]

You mean the same vaccine that they told us stopped transmission but then later told us didn’t stop transmission?

What part of "vaccine updates didn't keep up with virus mutations" don't you get?

Vaccines can't come out at the same speed a new variant of concern appears because of how the research and production of medication is controlled: you have the actual technical work that goes into developing drugs, and there's the validation/verification/approval side of the process. This takes an incredible amount of time, and these processes were essentially accelerated during the pandemic.

That was the whole point of slowing the spread: to give hospitals the ability to return to normal operating conditions, and to slow down the mutation of viruses to allow medicine to keep up with a certain level of effectiveness.

 

[cragmatic]

Remember when mainstream news showed us footage from NYC hospitals… but only they weren’t NYC hospitals, the footage was proven to be from Italy.

And people wonder why others are skeptical of what they were pushing in 2020.

 

[getback]

What does that have to do with vaccines though?

Hell of a pivot

 

[1995]

Can we compare the track record of mainstream media to alternative media?

I remember when 5G networks were turning people into Covid zombies

 

[AZwildcats]

My anti-vax guys in the group chat are having a field day with this one

 

[cragmatic]

I’m not Anti Vax by any means, got the initial two shots and the first booster. Just calling out the inconsistency in the messaging is all.

 

[cragmatic]

What does that have to do with vaccines though?

Hell of a pivot

He talked about hospitals being overran ….

I know the people who work in the hospitals where I live said that wasn’t true here.

It’s all hearsay to me, because I didn’t witness any of it with my own eyes. But people I have known for years that worked at the hospital swore up and down they weren’t over crowded at all.

I’m at the point where I don’t know what I believe, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. And people are so stuck in what they believe, that they refuse to even consider anything that doesn’t fit what they believe.

At the end of the day, none of us are going to change each others minds.

 

[gry60]

It’s all hearsay to me, because I didn’t witness any of it with my own eyes.

I have relatives that are in the medical field here and overseas. All of them had stories. One of them worked at the ER in a red state and would tell me how people with covid under her care died. Told me about people asking for the vaccine when it was already too late.

The bodies in those bags were not mannequins.

I’m at the point where I don’t know what I believe, but I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

This is my biggest gripe about this exchange: the fact that people treat science like a belief system. It isn't. It's simply the process of verifying hypotheses that are made about the observable world.

There's no "truth in the middle;" there's what is, what isn't, and what we don't know yet. And for the things we don't know, we infer based on available evidence and our level of confidence in it, which can be quantified after rigorous analysis.

It's all educated guesses, not belief as in blind faith.

 

[cragmatic]

I have relatives that are in the medical field here and overseas. All of them had stories. One of them worked at the ER in a red state and would tell me how people with covid under her care died. Told me about people asking for the vaccine when it was already too late.

The bodies in those bags were not mannequins.



This is my biggest gripe about this exchange: the fact that people treat science like a belief system. It isn't. It's simply the process of verifying hypotheses that are made about the observable world.

There's no "truth in the middle;" there's what is, what isn't, and what we don't know yet. And for the things we don't know, we infer based on available evidence and our level of confidence in it, which can be quantified after rigorous analysis.

It's all educated guesses, not belief as in blind faith.

Belief as far as how truthful the messaging was, not belief in the science.

 

[cragmatic]

Serious question, so if in Tuskegee, the messaging to the participants was the science was helping them with “bad blood?”

Were they “trusting the science?”

There are a lot of people, me included, who do not have a degree in epidemiology, so are we just supposed to blindly trust the science presented to us ? As the Tuskegee participants/victims blindly trusted what they were being told.

 

[cragmatic]

Can we compare the track record of mainstream media to alternative media?

I remember when 5G networks were turning people into Covid zombies

And this is part of the problem too, you cant bring up anything about mainstream media without people automatically bringing up extremes on the conspiracy end.

I think there’s a fine line between questioning things and thinking 5G caused Covid .

 

[1995]

And this is part of the problem too, you cant bring up anything about mainstream media without people automatically bringing up extremes on the conspiracy end.

I think there’s a fine line between questioning things and thinking 5G caused Covid .

I was alluding to posts I have seen on this very website from the same people who say "you just believe everything the mainstream media tells you"

But go off

 

[cragmatic]

I was alluding to posts I have seen on this very website from the same people who say "you just believe everything the mainstream media tells you"

But go off

That’s entirely fair lol. But it doesn’t apply to everyone.

 

[1995]

That’s entirely fair lol. But it doesn’t apply to everyone.

That's true, but unfortunately we have quite a few members here who are riding that wave

 

[gry60]

Belief as far as how truthful the messaging was, not belief in the science.

Ok.

The media is going to parrot what authorities - the CDC - are saying, and the CDC was terrible at conveying information about what was happening because they didn't properly assess the public's understanding of how science works, and because they didn't take into account the anti-government propaganda.

The scientific method is a means of self-correction; scientific results are expected to change when new, relevant evidence is uncovered. It is a process that we are used to see happen over a long period of time (years, decades, and centuries). In the case of the pandemic, this process of self-correction was accelerated and happened on a weekly basis. In deciding to hold daily briefings amidst a rapidly evolving situation, the CDC overlooked the fact that most people don't have that fundamental understanding of how science operates. That why the messaging strategy backfired: if you're not following the news like that (most people don't), it is easy to create the appearance of conflict when you say "wipe your counters" today, and 24h later, the evidence comes out that the virus is mostly transmitted by air. If you don't understand that scientific recommendations can change fast, you get confused.

Propaganda thrives in an environment of confusion (real or perceived), and media outlets like Newsmax and Fox took advantage of rapidly changing conditions to push their anti-government agenda to their audience. Unfortunately, they continue to be treated with kids gloves. It wasn't just here: Russia pushed a lot of nonsense about the west's response to the pandemic, and in my native country, papers were published with pandemic-related conspiracy theories on the front pages.

 

[wayniac211]

I’m not Anti Vax by any means, got the initial two shots and the first booster. Just calling out the inconsistency in the messaging is all.

got the vacs as well but tbh i feel like i did it because it was the thing to do. i did my the vacs research for more than 3 mo … looked up stats/data, read posts on NT and i still was lost

 

[Bert.]

Vaccine was/is a scam

Cry about it because a bunch of you about to flame me but it’s true

 

[getback]

Vaccine was/is a scam

Cry about it because a bunch of you about to flame me but it’s true

Thanks doc.