Realistically, what has the sweep done to Kobe's legacy?

[JD617]

Originally Posted by MisterP0315

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

MisterP0315 wrote:

---

Have we all forgotten how many ALL TIME greats have been swept? Jordan...Shaq...LeBron...Kobe...many more. This doesn't HELP his legacy but you guys have the memory of a water bottle.

Settle down.

Look back at the teams those players played with when they got sweep.

You can't tell me they were on the same level as this LA team.

No. Somehow, Kobe and the Lakers are Gods when they are winning...but when they are losing, Bynum is Bybum...Mr. Glass. Pau is Gasoft...and so on. You're merely looking at names and not what actually went down in the series.

I realize this is getting kind of beaten into the ground at this point, but none of you Lakers fans wanted to hear a word of this the last 2 years when Mo Williams and the rest of the Cavs supporting cast disappeared in the playoffs. Especially in '09 when Lebron played the best basketball of his life, averaging 35, 9 and 7 on 51% shooting in the playoffs including a game-winner in the Orlando series. All we heard then was "Yeah, but they won 60+ games and had the best record in the league, of course the supporting cast was good enough." You guys didn't want to look at what actually happened in the series then, it was alllllll Lebron's fault. It's funny how you guys have done a complete 180 on this and now all of a sudden you want to look at what actually happened in the series before you just assign blame to the star player.

No one is gonna win in the playoffs if their second best player disappears, not Kobe, not Lebron, not Zeus himself.

 

[JD617]

Originally Posted by MisterP0315

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

MisterP0315 wrote:

---

Have we all forgotten how many ALL TIME greats have been swept? Jordan...Shaq...LeBron...Kobe...many more. This doesn't HELP his legacy but you guys have the memory of a water bottle.

Settle down.

Look back at the teams those players played with when they got sweep.

You can't tell me they were on the same level as this LA team.

No. Somehow, Kobe and the Lakers are Gods when they are winning...but when they are losing, Bynum is Bybum...Mr. Glass. Pau is Gasoft...and so on. You're merely looking at names and not what actually went down in the series.

I realize this is getting kind of beaten into the ground at this point, but none of you Lakers fans wanted to hear a word of this the last 2 years when Mo Williams and the rest of the Cavs supporting cast disappeared in the playoffs. Especially in '09 when Lebron played the best basketball of his life, averaging 35, 9 and 7 on 51% shooting in the playoffs including a game-winner in the Orlando series. All we heard then was "Yeah, but they won 60+ games and had the best record in the league, of course the supporting cast was good enough." You guys didn't want to look at what actually happened in the series then, it was alllllll Lebron's fault. It's funny how you guys have done a complete 180 on this and now all of a sudden you want to look at what actually happened in the series before you just assign blame to the star player.

No one is gonna win in the playoffs if their second best player disappears, not Kobe, not Lebron, not Zeus himself.

 

[doublejs07]

This sweep did NOTHING to Kobe's legacy...he's got 5 rings already. It was just a %@!$!% way to go out.  I dont think any more/less of him after yesterday. 

 

[doublejs07]

This sweep did NOTHING to Kobe's legacy...he's got 5 rings already. It was just a %@!$!% way to go out.  I dont think any more/less of him after yesterday. 

 

[im not you]

Originally Posted by TheAfricanDream

Ha, I honestly believe some of the nitpicking by some of you, comes down simply to a dislike for the guy for whatever reason.

Every argument concerning Lebron or Kobe on this forum pretty much comes down to this.

 

[im not you]

Originally Posted by TheAfricanDream

Ha, I honestly believe some of the nitpicking by some of you, comes down simply to a dislike for the guy for whatever reason.

Every argument concerning Lebron or Kobe on this forum pretty much comes down to this.

 

[outkast9984]

i dont see how this is even a legitimate question...im not a huge kobe fan and this loss does absolutely nothing to his legacy....guy has 5 rings....hes going to be ok

 

[outkast9984]

i dont see how this is even a legitimate question...im not a huge kobe fan and this loss does absolutely nothing to his legacy....guy has 5 rings....hes going to be ok

 

[tonyreali]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by The Natural Mystic

Originally Posted by Deuce King


Much like Kobe Bryant yesterday alot of you Kobe lovers failed and are failing to get the job done in this thread.  Your boy gave us yesterday so it's only best and fitting that you dudes do the same.


Nice try champ, but make no mistake about it Kobe's "so called" accomplishments are tied to many people and certain circumstances...........that' not "undeniable" in any way shape or form.

As far as Jordan or any other great player getting swept, like others have said.........it happens or has happened.  The thing about it is, is the manner that certain players got swept by or the teams that they got swept by to begin with.  Getting blown out in Game 4 of the best of 7 series and having a HOF coach go out like that yesterday is not a good way for a great player to represent for his team or coach. 

  

why does it matter in what fashion you lose? whether its by 1 or 30, you still LOSE! What are you trying to say? You play to win the game. Jordans accomplishments are not tied to many people either? or did Jordan win everything by himself? Should everything Kobe won have a * to them? What are you even saying? I understand you don't like the dude but don't discredit his work and his accomplishments.

Just to reiterate one more time for all the Kobe lovers out there to me Kobe is a great player, there is no disputing that IMO.  However, whether it be Kobe having the luxury of having Michael Jordan's coach for all of the championships teams he was on or him being Robin to Shaq's Batman during his first 3 championships, Kobe's accomplishments aren't as "undeniable" as alot of you dudes think.  Also, losing is losing, but there is something to be said about not really showing up at all to play a game and just getting completely dismantled and embarrassed the way Kobe and the Lakers did yesterday.  The Mavs dissected and picked apart the Lakers during this entire series and left their remains as roadkill after the game yesterday.  

Then on top of all of that you get swept and having one of if not what most consider to be the greatest basketball coach of all time go out like that.  Not to mention Phil's family was there in attendance yesterday and that was the best effort that Kobe could muster up, completely unacceptable.  All Kobe could do was sit on the bench in the last few minutes of the game with that stupid look on his face wondering who, what, when, where and how.    

     

So does this mean that Michael Jordan's accomplishments aren't "undeniable?"

Cmon brah, %#!+ u talkin bout.

 

[tonyreali]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

Originally Posted by The Natural Mystic

Originally Posted by Deuce King


Much like Kobe Bryant yesterday alot of you Kobe lovers failed and are failing to get the job done in this thread.  Your boy gave us yesterday so it's only best and fitting that you dudes do the same.


Nice try champ, but make no mistake about it Kobe's "so called" accomplishments are tied to many people and certain circumstances...........that' not "undeniable" in any way shape or form.

As far as Jordan or any other great player getting swept, like others have said.........it happens or has happened.  The thing about it is, is the manner that certain players got swept by or the teams that they got swept by to begin with.  Getting blown out in Game 4 of the best of 7 series and having a HOF coach go out like that yesterday is not a good way for a great player to represent for his team or coach. 

  

why does it matter in what fashion you lose? whether its by 1 or 30, you still LOSE! What are you trying to say? You play to win the game. Jordans accomplishments are not tied to many people either? or did Jordan win everything by himself? Should everything Kobe won have a * to them? What are you even saying? I understand you don't like the dude but don't discredit his work and his accomplishments.

Just to reiterate one more time for all the Kobe lovers out there to me Kobe is a great player, there is no disputing that IMO.  However, whether it be Kobe having the luxury of having Michael Jordan's coach for all of the championships teams he was on or him being Robin to Shaq's Batman during his first 3 championships, Kobe's accomplishments aren't as "undeniable" as alot of you dudes think.  Also, losing is losing, but there is something to be said about not really showing up at all to play a game and just getting completely dismantled and embarrassed the way Kobe and the Lakers did yesterday.  The Mavs dissected and picked apart the Lakers during this entire series and left their remains as roadkill after the game yesterday.  

Then on top of all of that you get swept and having one of if not what most consider to be the greatest basketball coach of all time go out like that.  Not to mention Phil's family was there in attendance yesterday and that was the best effort that Kobe could muster up, completely unacceptable.  All Kobe could do was sit on the bench in the last few minutes of the game with that stupid look on his face wondering who, what, when, where and how.    

     

So does this mean that Michael Jordan's accomplishments aren't "undeniable?"

Cmon brah, %#!+ u talkin bout.

 

[franchise3]

What this sweep proves is you need a dominant big, or trees in the middle to win a championship.

 

[franchise3]

What this sweep proves is you need a dominant big, or trees in the middle to win a championship.

 

[frenchblue23]

Hakeem and Drexler were swept in 1996 after winning back to back titles, and no one talks about them in a negative light.

Thomas and Dumars were swept in 1989 after winning back to back titles, and no one talks about them in a negative light.

Once it's all said and done, Kobe's legacy will be fine. Everyone likes to over analyze.

 

[frenchblue23]

Hakeem and Drexler were swept in 1996 after winning back to back titles, and no one talks about them in a negative light.

Thomas and Dumars were swept in 1989 after winning back to back titles, and no one talks about them in a negative light.

Once it's all said and done, Kobe's legacy will be fine. Everyone likes to over analyze.

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by JD617

Originally Posted by MisterP0315

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

Look back at the teams those players played with when they got sweep.

You can't tell me they were on the same level as this LA team.

No. Somehow, Kobe and the Lakers are Gods when they are winning...but when they are losing, Bynum is Bybum...Mr. Glass. Pau is Gasoft...and so on. You're merely looking at names and not what actually went down in the series.

I realize this is getting kind of beaten into the ground at this point, but none of you Lakers fans wanted to hear a word of this the last 2 years when Mo Williams and the rest of the Cavs supporting cast disappeared in the playoffs. Especially in '09 when Lebron played the best basketball of his life, averaging 35, 9 and 7 on 51% shooting in the playoffs including a game-winner in the Orlando series. All we heard then was "Yeah, but they won 60+ games and had the best record in the league, of course the supporting cast was good enough." You guys didn't want to look at what actually happened in the series then, it was alllllll Lebron's fault. It's funny how you guys have done a complete 180 on this and now all of a sudden you want to look at what actually happened in the series before you just assign blame to the star player.

No one is gonna win in the playoffs if their second best player disappears, not Kobe, not Lebron, not Zeus himself.

Can someone sticky this post?

 

[lukethejediknight]

Originally Posted by JD617

Originally Posted by MisterP0315

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

Look back at the teams those players played with when they got sweep.

You can't tell me they were on the same level as this LA team.

No. Somehow, Kobe and the Lakers are Gods when they are winning...but when they are losing, Bynum is Bybum...Mr. Glass. Pau is Gasoft...and so on. You're merely looking at names and not what actually went down in the series.

I realize this is getting kind of beaten into the ground at this point, but none of you Lakers fans wanted to hear a word of this the last 2 years when Mo Williams and the rest of the Cavs supporting cast disappeared in the playoffs. Especially in '09 when Lebron played the best basketball of his life, averaging 35, 9 and 7 on 51% shooting in the playoffs including a game-winner in the Orlando series. All we heard then was "Yeah, but they won 60+ games and had the best record in the league, of course the supporting cast was good enough." You guys didn't want to look at what actually happened in the series then, it was alllllll Lebron's fault. It's funny how you guys have done a complete 180 on this and now all of a sudden you want to look at what actually happened in the series before you just assign blame to the star player.

No one is gonna win in the playoffs if their second best player disappears, not Kobe, not Lebron, not Zeus himself.

Can someone sticky this post?

 

[franchise3]

In a post Jordan era that is, for the most part

 

[doublejs07]

This has more to do with the Kobe/Mike comparison than his "legacy." Let's be real here....

 

[franchise3]

In a post Jordan era that is, for the most part

 

[doublejs07]

This has more to do with the Kobe/Mike comparison than his "legacy." Let's be real here....

 

[the natural mystic]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

The Natural Mystic wrote:

---

Deuce King wrote:

---

Much like Kobe Bryant yesterday alot of you Kobe lovers failed and are failing to get the job done in this thread.  Your boy gave us yesterday so it's only best and fitting that you dudes do the same.

and Kobe's accomplishments are undeniable

Nice try champ, but make no mistake about it Kobe's "so called" accomplishments are tied to many people and certain circumstances...........that' not "undeniable" in any way shape or form.

As far as Jordan or any other great player getting swept, like others have said.........it happens or has happened.  The thing about it is, is the manner that certain players got swept by or the teams that they got swept by to begin with.  Getting blown out in Game 4 of the best of 7 series and having a HOF coach go out like that yesterday is not a good way for a great player to represent for his team or coach. 

  


why does it matter in what fashion you lose? whether its by 1 or 30, you still LOSE! What are you trying to say? You play to win the game. Jordans accomplishments are not tied to many people either? or did Jordan win everything by himself? Should everything Kobe won have a * to them? What are you even saying? I understand you don't like the dude but don't discredit his work and his accomplishments.
Just to reiterate one more time for all the Kobe lovers out there to me Kobe is a great player, there is no disputing that IMO.  However, whether it be Kobe having the luxury of having Michael Jordan's coach for all of the championships teams he was on or him being Robin to Shaq's Batman during his first 3 championships, Kobe's accomplishments aren't as "undeniable" as alot of you dudes think.  Also, losing is losing, but there is something to be said about not really showing up at all to play a game and just getting completely dismantled and embarrassed the way Kobe and the Lakers did yesterday.  The Mavs dissected and picked apart the Lakers during this entire series and left their remains as roadkill after the game yesterday.  

Then on top of all of that you get swept and having one of if not what most consider to be the greatest basketball coach of all time go out like that.  Not to mention Phil's family was there in attendance yesterday and that was the best effort that Kobe could muster up, completely unacceptable.  All Kobe could do was sit on the bench in the last few minutes of the game with that stupid look on his face wondering who, what, when, where and how.    

     


So it's Kobe's fault they got embarrassed in front of Phil's family? Phil might have had just as much fault in this whole thing as Kobe. Phil was out-coached and maybe teams have finally caught up to his schemes and just found weaknesses in his game planning. But no, we can blame Kobe for that. Was there a time we ever said "damn, scottie played charmin soft basketball today"? or "dennis rodman showed no effort at all today" Well guess what? Kobe(batman) was getting whopped by the joker and his chronies(Dirk and the Mavs) but Robin(Gasol) didn't show up to at least distract the chronies. Maybe he was just tired from balling for the last 3-4 years non stop. Dude is human, he is not God.

As far as the first 3 championships, if you think they are deniable in your opinion then thats fine but that makes absolutley no sense. With that logic you might as well deny Scottie Pippen, Rodman, Kerr their championships. Shaq was absolutely the best player on the team but I just can't discredit someone who averaged 25-30 points in those championship runs. I just can't. I don't see them as Batman and Robin but moreso Double dragon(I would be impressed if you remember this cartoon and the game). They needed each other to reach their full potential.

You can't deny MVP, Gold medal, Finals MVP(2) and Championships(5 or 2 or however you want to give him credit for)

 

[the natural mystic]

Originally Posted by Deuce King

The Natural Mystic wrote:

---

Deuce King wrote:

---

Much like Kobe Bryant yesterday alot of you Kobe lovers failed and are failing to get the job done in this thread.  Your boy gave us yesterday so it's only best and fitting that you dudes do the same.

and Kobe's accomplishments are undeniable

Nice try champ, but make no mistake about it Kobe's "so called" accomplishments are tied to many people and certain circumstances...........that' not "undeniable" in any way shape or form.

As far as Jordan or any other great player getting swept, like others have said.........it happens or has happened.  The thing about it is, is the manner that certain players got swept by or the teams that they got swept by to begin with.  Getting blown out in Game 4 of the best of 7 series and having a HOF coach go out like that yesterday is not a good way for a great player to represent for his team or coach. 

  


why does it matter in what fashion you lose? whether its by 1 or 30, you still LOSE! What are you trying to say? You play to win the game. Jordans accomplishments are not tied to many people either? or did Jordan win everything by himself? Should everything Kobe won have a * to them? What are you even saying? I understand you don't like the dude but don't discredit his work and his accomplishments.
Just to reiterate one more time for all the Kobe lovers out there to me Kobe is a great player, there is no disputing that IMO.  However, whether it be Kobe having the luxury of having Michael Jordan's coach for all of the championships teams he was on or him being Robin to Shaq's Batman during his first 3 championships, Kobe's accomplishments aren't as "undeniable" as alot of you dudes think.  Also, losing is losing, but there is something to be said about not really showing up at all to play a game and just getting completely dismantled and embarrassed the way Kobe and the Lakers did yesterday.  The Mavs dissected and picked apart the Lakers during this entire series and left their remains as roadkill after the game yesterday.  

Then on top of all of that you get swept and having one of if not what most consider to be the greatest basketball coach of all time go out like that.  Not to mention Phil's family was there in attendance yesterday and that was the best effort that Kobe could muster up, completely unacceptable.  All Kobe could do was sit on the bench in the last few minutes of the game with that stupid look on his face wondering who, what, when, where and how.    

     


So it's Kobe's fault they got embarrassed in front of Phil's family? Phil might have had just as much fault in this whole thing as Kobe. Phil was out-coached and maybe teams have finally caught up to his schemes and just found weaknesses in his game planning. But no, we can blame Kobe for that. Was there a time we ever said "damn, scottie played charmin soft basketball today"? or "dennis rodman showed no effort at all today" Well guess what? Kobe(batman) was getting whopped by the joker and his chronies(Dirk and the Mavs) but Robin(Gasol) didn't show up to at least distract the chronies. Maybe he was just tired from balling for the last 3-4 years non stop. Dude is human, he is not God.

As far as the first 3 championships, if you think they are deniable in your opinion then thats fine but that makes absolutley no sense. With that logic you might as well deny Scottie Pippen, Rodman, Kerr their championships. Shaq was absolutely the best player on the team but I just can't discredit someone who averaged 25-30 points in those championship runs. I just can't. I don't see them as Batman and Robin but moreso Double dragon(I would be impressed if you remember this cartoon and the game). They needed each other to reach their full potential.

You can't deny MVP, Gold medal, Finals MVP(2) and Championships(5 or 2 or however you want to give him credit for)

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

From a neutral fan's standpoint (Trail Blazers) - nothing. Kobe is still a top-10 player of all time and one of the best players I've ever watched. I grew up in the 80's and 90's, so I got to see plenty of big names play, and Kobe belongs with the best of them.
Does he do some dumb #$+! on the court? Yes.
Did he seem quiet during this series? Yes.
Does age/fatigue look to be catching up to him? Yes.
Have other players in the top-10 done the same things from time to time? Of course.

But you know what? He's still exciting. He's still fun to watch. I can see why some people hate him (people on this board make it EASY), but the same can be said with many players in the league. Unfortunately, most sports fans have incredibly short memories and live by the mantra of "what have you done for me lately?" People already calling Tom Brady the GOAT, people saying Kobe > Jordan, etc. But hey, that's life.

It's always the same thing with these debates: if you stick up for Kobe, you're a "stan" or "rider." If you talk down on him, you're a "hater" or your team is attacked. It's just funny how intense some of you guys are...

Best post in this thread. The level of scrutiny for this guy (and LeBron) on this board is borderline disturbing.

 

[abovelegit1]

Originally Posted by University of Nike

From a neutral fan's standpoint (Trail Blazers) - nothing. Kobe is still a top-10 player of all time and one of the best players I've ever watched. I grew up in the 80's and 90's, so I got to see plenty of big names play, and Kobe belongs with the best of them.
Does he do some dumb #$+! on the court? Yes.
Did he seem quiet during this series? Yes.
Does age/fatigue look to be catching up to him? Yes.
Have other players in the top-10 done the same things from time to time? Of course.

But you know what? He's still exciting. He's still fun to watch. I can see why some people hate him (people on this board make it EASY), but the same can be said with many players in the league. Unfortunately, most sports fans have incredibly short memories and live by the mantra of "what have you done for me lately?" People already calling Tom Brady the GOAT, people saying Kobe > Jordan, etc. But hey, that's life.

It's always the same thing with these debates: if you stick up for Kobe, you're a "stan" or "rider." If you talk down on him, you're a "hater" or your team is attacked. It's just funny how intense some of you guys are...

Best post in this thread. The level of scrutiny for this guy (and LeBron) on this board is borderline disturbing.

 

[koolbarbone]

Originally Posted by JD617

Originally Posted by MisterP0315

Originally Posted by Beware The Underdog

Look back at the teams those players played with when they got sweep.

You can't tell me they were on the same level as this LA team.

No. Somehow, Kobe and the Lakers are Gods when they are winning...but when they are losing, Bynum is Bybum...Mr. Glass. Pau is Gasoft...and so on. You're merely looking at names and not what actually went down in the series.

I realize this is getting kind of beaten into the ground at this point, but none of you Lakers fans wanted to hear a word of this the last 2 years when Mo Williams and the rest of the Cavs supporting cast disappeared in the playoffs. Especially in '09 when Lebron played the best basketball of his life, averaging 35, 9 and 7 on 51% shooting in the playoffs including a game-winner in the Orlando series. All we heard then was "Yeah, but they won 60+ games and had the best record in the league, of course the supporting cast was good enough." You guys didn't want to look at what actually happened in the series then, it was alllllll Lebron's fault. It's funny how you guys have done a complete 180 on this and now all of a sudden you want to look at what actually happened in the series before you just assign blame to the star player.

No one is gonna win in the playoffs if their second best player disappears, not Kobe, not Lebron, not Zeus himself.

That's all well and good but Kobe's supporting cast played strong enough for them to be in this series. The first three games, especially the first and third were all within reach. Kobe failed to put them over the top. Anyone preaching "team" in relation to those games is just being naive to how the NBA works.