President to propose free community college on Friday

[RustyShackleford]

First two years of college is high school. Being taxed twice on public education. If high school was done right, most students would start off with some college credit. This a band aide on a gaping wound and tax laws have stalled the education bubble long enough. Time to learn individually or communally

Exactly, you get to college and take Math, History, English classes totally unrelated to what you're majoring in.

I respectfully disagree. I feel that that college should train you for a career AND provide you with a some what rigorous treatment of a wide range of subjects to broaden your understanding of the world. Most high school students never see physics, logic/philosophy, statistics, fiance, or economics class. People not having a basic understanding in these subjects in my opinion are causing major problems.

Those general studies classes have their purpose. I do feel however they should cost students less than the ones required by their major though

The problem with grade schools in that they don't prepare students very well for anything. I mean we got kids graduating HS not being able to do algebra

 

[Mark Antony]

Ahh, I see. The opposition basically boils down to "well I never got it for free, no one else should". Yall selfish *** dudes see through.

 

[johnnyredstorm]

If school was free graduates would have more money to start businesses and create new jobs.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ahh, I see. The opposition basically boils down to "well I never got it for free, no one else should". Yall selfish *** dudes see through.

Pretty much

 

[luckyluchiano]

I respectfully disagree. I feel that that college should train you for a career AND provide you with a some what rigorous treatment of a wide range of subjects to broaden your understanding of the world. Most high school students never see physics, logic/philosophy, statistics, fiance, or economics class. People not having a basic understanding in these subjects in my opinion are causing major problems.

Those general studies classes have their purpose. I do feel however they should cost students less than the ones required by their major though

The problem with grade schools in that they don't prepare students very well for anything. I mean we got kids graduating HS not being able to do algebra

Nah, IMO HS should give you a broad range and touch on diff stuff to shape you or at least point you into the direction of what you want to do career wise, tons of kids get to college and waste 2 yrs to see college isn't even for them. HS is a waste of time nowadays.

 

[wr]

I respectfully disagree. I feel that that college should train you for a career AND provide you with a some what rigorous treatment of a wide range of subjects to broaden your understanding of the world. Most high school students never see physics, logic/philosophy, statistics, fiance, or economics class. People not having a basic understanding in these subjects in my opinion are causing major problems.

Those general studies classes have their purpose. I do feel however they should cost students less than the ones required by their major though

The problem with grade schools in that they don't prepare students very well for anything. I mean we got kids graduating HS not being able to do algebra

Coming from America, I went to a secondary british school for a bit and I was so behind. Even though they had less money, they spent every year on the same subjects going up a level of mastery. So me going to school over there taking a science class, I was already 3 to 4 years behind. In America you touch a subject for two semesters and are supposed to have it down. That expectation is ridiculous and is phasing us out of the world intellectually. We waste the crucial learning years I. America chasing standardized test scores which are on the back administration end merely just funding prerequisites for the district.

Schools get money for cheeks in seats. They could care less about teaching.

 

[mr marcus]

Public school system in America is really a joke. Most counties will have a few schools that do well but the other ones test scores be 

 

[W)taps]

What does America have that no country does?

Best universities in the world. Sure some countries have top universities like Oxford, Seoul, etc. but they only have no more than 3-5.

Obviously our free education is a joke but we got millions of people from different nations wanting to come to our schools.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I respectfully disagree. I feel that that college should train you for a career AND provide you with a some what rigorous treatment of a wide range of subjects to broaden your understanding of the world. Most high school students never see physics, logic/philosophy, statistics, fiance, or economics class. People not having a basic understanding in these subjects in my opinion are causing major problems.

Those general studies classes have their purpose. I do feel however they should cost students less than the ones required by their major though

The problem with grade schools in that they don't prepare students very well for anything. I mean we got kids graduating HS not being able to do algebra

Coming from America, I went to a secondary british school for a bit and I was so behind. Even though they had less money, they spent every year on the same subjects going up a level of mastery. So me going to school over there taking a science class, I was already 3 to 4 years behind. In America you touch a subject for two semesters and are supposed to have it down. That expectation is ridiculous and is phasing us out of the world intellectually. We waste the crucial learning years I. America chasing standardized test scores which are on the back administration end merely just funding prerequisites for the district.

Schools get money for cheeks in seats. They could care less about teaching.

I moved to America at 13. I had already had one year of HS under my belt when I got up here and was placed in 8th grade. In total I only had one standardized test from age 4 to 13.

And I was in my final 5 years I had one every year. So I have some personal experience to draw on

In America it goes slower because they try to make sure everyone gets it, and it is the teachers responsibility everyone gets it. Overseas getting it is not the teachers problem, it is the student's, especially as students get older. The drawback to the America system is that students don't learn much, and what they do learn they don't understand it at a deep level. The disadvantages of the systems in other countries is that a struggling students will get left behind in the blink of a eye.

If we go to a faster survival of the strongest system, without adjusting other things then I guarantee you that the poor and minorities with suffer. Because they resources and best teachers will be in the burbs with the rich white folk.

My recommendation is that we invest more in, a national mandatory curriculum, early education programs, lengthen the school year, pick up the pace on the material, end grade school end a year or 2 earlier, reduce testing, make teaching a appealing profession that the best and brightest want to go into, pay a premium to the best teacher to be in the under performing schools, everyone goes to community colleges, then move onto universities.

But all this is a fantasy because no one will want to pay for this.
But the thing is, under your plan, without any other changes,

More resources need to be spent on early education and making sure kids don't f

 

[biggie62]

Those defending boosters are funny to me because a lot of these same people will donate to the university for one reason, charitable deductions for your tax return. Don't defend sports programs that lose money. I have a lot of people always going at me but why are universities, a place to develop individuals intellectually, a minor league development system for pro athletes? This doesn't happen in Europe or anywhere else in the world. You want to play a sport for your school, cool, do it because you love it and make sure that you can maintain a 2.5 at the very least. Like you would in HS.

In terms of Obamas plan I feel that a 2.5 is too low. This should be treated like a scholarship if anything so a 3.0 requirement is a must like all scholarships require in creditable universities. If you can't maintain a 3.0 you shouldn't be in school.

I don't know how other states work but in NY we have a CUNY system for NYC and a SUNY system that is state wide. SUNY schools are a bit more expensive but you can attend a CUNY for like 3k a semester, it's chump change. And then you have a school like Baruch that is a decent business school, especially in accounting, where you can come out with a 4 year degree for 24k. I went to undergrad at Fordham for 40k a year and I regret it. I got a lot of financial aid initially but they reduce it each subsequent year because they know that they have you. It turned from paying 6k my first year without loans to having to take 49k in loans by the time I graduated. Private schools are really a waste of money unless you go to an Ivy League and know that you will leverage that presitigue into a job on Wall Street or something along those lines.

 

[Nike Jordan]

The same people who complain about how we're poorly educated are the same people that will decry the free CC proposal. 

Dat irony.

 

[fontaine]

What does America have that no country does?

Best universities in the world. Sure some countries have top universities like Oxford, Seoul, etc. but they only have no more than 3-5.

Obviously our free education is a joke but we got millions of people from different nations wanting to come to our schools.

To be fair...

Its primarily because our universities are pipelines to the american workforce, not the university quality, if that makes sense.

 

[tay1]

what do UC's have to do with CC's bro?


What does fault have to do with anything bro?


Nothing in your rebuttal makes any sense bro, I'm sorry.

It's not a matter of "more schools being created" whatever that means.


EXISTING schools can't even bring in the faculty needed to field all the students that want to enroll. That's a finite amount of qualified professors per subject matter for a growing number of students and bigger more established universities get their pick of the professor pool.


The scraps often fall to CC, and after the best professors are snatched up early in enrollment season, students are forced to settle for subpar professors.

What does your rebuttal have to do with campuses already having limited space? There's only so much surrounding land you can buy.

What does your rebuttal have to do with the lack of parking space most community colleges have available? Again only so much surrounding land you can buy. There are established businesses (malls, office buildings, big box stores) that aren't going to be bought out so easily.


Again there is a logistics issue at hand, IDK what you're talking about bro, no shade but nothing in your rebuttal made any sense. That's why I honestly ignored it the first time you said it. :\


Fault doesn't minimize the logistics issue. Oh so "it's not the students fault" so lets just overlook the logistics issue?




.

I dont wanna hear none of that. There are more prisons being built than schools. Schools shut down, and prisons worth millions are beong built.

 

[utvol23]

That's what I'm thinking too.

utvol23 the line of thinking of "The government needs to prioritize helping me first before else" is kinda ridiculous to me, and I have a hard time respecting it

I do agree there needs to be student loan reform. Bailout out them now, or watch the system explode in the near future

I never said prioritize me.I also never said forgive my debt. I am talking about the outrageous interest they are charging. Double to triple that you can currently get on a car or mortgage.

Also I could do the loan forgiveness as my job does qualify but I would have to work for another 10 years until they are forgiven and I dont want hundreds of thousands of loans sitting around for 10 yrs that will be there until they are paid off or I die. I would rather pay off my loans quickly.

 

[fontaine]

I never said prioritize me.I also never said forgive my debt. I am talking about the outrageous interest they are charging. Double to triple that you can currently get on a car or mortgage.

those rates are a joke.

 

[utvol23]

I have to ask you guys who want to or who are in in medical or law school. Why does making 300k, having no debt and paying 45% of your income in taxes sound so awful but making 300k, paying 20% in taxes and 30% to the bank (student loans plus borrowed start up capital in order to start a private practice) seem like sweet, sweet freedom.

No one wants to pay taxes but why should smart, academically driven poor and middle class students have to take on a mortgage (minus the house) in order to even have chance at practicing law or medicine?

What makes indenture to a bank so different and so much better then having to pay a high marginal tax rate (which would only happen if you are already making a lot of money)?

Well because a high marginal tax rate is FOREVER. If dont over extend yourself most can pay off your debt. The problem is we are paying 40% of our income to taxes then another huge chunk to loan. Right now over 80% of my income goes to taxes and loans. Maybe I am missing your point but for one is infinite and the other is finite

 

[HEATHEN]

I dont wanna hear none of that. There are more prisons being built than schools. Schools shut down, and prisons worth millions are beong built.

Absolutely immaterial to the conversation at hand.



The prison industrial complex in this nation is a completely different topic. I've spoke about that subject to ad nauseam on this forum. If you want to talk about the for profit prison system in this nation, start a new thread but as it stands it has nothing to do with this conversation.

You're just deflecting instead of making any tangible sense whatsoever.


Either post well-thought out responses or don't quote me, I mean no offense whatsoever but you're wasting my time with these silly shallow responses.


Have a pleasant evening.

 

[tay1]

Absolutely immaterial to the conversation at hand.



The prison industrial complex in this nation is a completely different topic. Now you're just deflecting instead of making any tangible sense whatsoever.


Either post well-thought out responses or don't quote me, I mean no offense whatsoever but you're wasting my time with these silly shallow responses.

You're wasting your own time by responding. If CC's are overcrowded, more are obviously needed. I don't care about what's needed to opening them or the process. That's just the fact. Whether it happens or not is a different story.

 

[M. Fresh]

Schools get money for cheeks in seats. They could care less about teaching.

The first part I agree with, the second part def not. This is coming from a teacher at the elementary level. Even though my school is in a low income area, my principal stresses educating the students. I would say over 95% of the teachers at my school care about the children's education and put in a lot of work. We go early, stay late and work on different strategies to help the children. I know this isn't the case for all schools and as the children move up grade levels it can be more difficult to get their focus to effectively educate them.

 

[W)taps]

To be fair...

Its primarily because our universities are pipelines to the american workforce, not the university quality, if that makes sense.

That still supports my argument.

 

[HEATHEN]

You're wasting your own time by responding. If CC's are overcrowded, more are obviously needed. I don't care about what's needed to opening them or the process. That's just the fact. Whether it happens or not is a different story.

Okay then don't care, it's an absolutely childish stance to take.


As I said, there is a finite amount of qualified instructors available to teach coursework properly.


There are a finite amount of qualified administrators to oversee the campus.


There is a finite amount of space available on pre-existing campuses.


You not "caring" doesn't change the logistical challenges at hand.


Don't quote me if you're going to spew nonsense. Please be rational in your responses.


And no, CC's aren't overcrowded because "more are needed", it's because there just isn't enough faculty available to staff the number of classes needed to satisfy the sheer amount of students enrolling.


You going to go teach Quantum Mechanics bro?

 

[wr]

The first part I agree with, the second part def not. This is coming from a teacher at the elementary level. Even though my school is in a low income area, my principal stresses educating the students. I would say over 95% of the teachers at my school care about the children's education and put in a lot of work. We go early, stay late and work on different strategies to help the children. I know this isn't the case for all schools and as the children move up grade levels it can be more difficult to get their focus to effectively educate them.

I agree, but at that level of education. I'm pretty sure all adults can attest to be being told we could be whatever we want to be as we where younger, then as we got older that message changed into what we have here's now. Students straddled with debt to leverage an education that may or may not have an opportunity at the end.

 

[RustyShackleford]

That's what I'm thinking too.

utvol23 the line of thinking of "The government needs to prioritize helping me first before else" is kinda ridiculous to me, and I have a hard time respecting it

I do agree there needs to be student loan reform. Bailout out them now, or watch the system explode in the near future

I never said prioritize me.I also never said forgive my debt. I am talking about the outrageous interest they are charging. Double to triple that you can currently get on a car or mortgage.

Also I could do the loan forgiveness as my job does qualify but I would have to work for another 10 years until they are forgiven and I dont want hundreds of thousands of loans sitting around for 10 yrs that will be there until they are paid off or I die. I would rather pay off my loans quickly.

Sorry if you think I'm putting word in your mouth but I never said you were saying those things.

Those loans were probably the best deal you could get to pay off school. And without them, you probably wouldn't have your career. And in the long run you still come out ahead. I am I right on those points?

I do agree with you that they should allow all students, not just you, to refinance into lower interest loans. I'm with you on that

Plus brah, you have another option that would save you money with the loan forgiveness, and you're choosing not to go that route.

That's your choice, just like it was to agree to those interest rates

 

[utvol23]

Sorry if you think I'm putting word in your mouth but I never said you were saying those things.

Those loans were probably the best deal you could get to pay off school. And without them, you probably wouldn't have your career. And in the long run you still come out ahead. I am I right on those points?

I do agree with you that they should allow all students, not just you, to refinance into lower interest loans. I'm with you on that

Plus brah, you have another option that would save you money with the loan forgiveness, and you're choosing not to go that route.

That's your choice, just like it was to agree to those interest rates

Well you arent really saving much money because you are making payments the whole time and another reason is the govt can get rid of the loan forgiveness at any time. In fact the Obama Admin tried to get a bill through about a year ago that would limit the forgiveness to a max of 52k of loans taken out. So you could make payments for 8 yrs for example then in the 9th year they dissolve the program and you are left with hundreds of thousands that you essentially have been paying primarily interest on for the last 8 years. Remember this is debt that cannot be gotten rid of through bankruptcy it either has to be paid or you die.

Should I feel grateful that the govt loaned me the money at loan shark rates in this current rate climate?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Sorry if you think I'm putting word in your mouth but I never said you were saying those things.

Those loans were probably the best deal you could get to pay off school. And without them, you probably wouldn't have your career. And in the long run you still come out ahead. I am I right on those points?

I do agree with you that they should allow all students, not just you, to refinance into lower interest loans. I'm with you on that

Plus brah, you have another option that would save you money with the loan forgiveness, and you're choosing not to go that route.

That's your choice, just like it was to agree to those interest rates

Well you arent really saving much money because you are making payments the whole time and another reason is the govt can get rid of the loan forgiveness at any time. In fact the Obama Admin tried to get a bill through about a year ago that would limit the forgiveness to a max of 52k of loans taken out. So you could make payments for 8 yrs for example then in the 9th year they dissolve the program and you are left with hundreds of thousands that you essentially have been paying primarily interest on for the last 8 years. Remember this is debt that cannot be gotten rid of through bankruptcy it either has to be paid or you die.

Should I feel grateful that the govt loaned me the money at loan shark rates in this current rate climate?

The same money that made your career possible and will result in your favor in the long run.

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Yes

You didn't go to a private bank for that money, you didn't go to a loan shark. The government gave you the best deal available, didn't they?

You signed a contract with those terms, and now you want a bailout. I mean lets keep it #1HUNNA.

Fine, I actually think you should get one, but to make it a condition of this program borders on the selfish to me.

-I just don't think you're the poster boy for the government screwing their citizens that you think you are brah