President to propose free community college on Friday

Actually i did go to a private bank and it was the govt that took it over.

Also didn't say i got screwed over. I just dont understand then charging some people absurdly high interest rates but at the same time trying to iinstitute a new program to give essentially free schooling.

dont want a bail out at all. I want market rates. If you can refinance your mortgage you should be able to do the same with loans
 
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Yep took out loans through sallie mae and suntrust and either 2008 or 10 around when all the people defaulted on their mortgages the govt tooknover the student loan industry
 
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Either way the education system overall in the USA is horrible, this is a step in the right direction so I'm with it. Can't fix everything at once.
 
Well because a high marginal tax rate is FOREVER. If dont over extend yourself most can pay off your debt. The problem is we are paying 40% of our income to taxes then another huge chunk to loan. Right now over 80% of my income goes to taxes and loans. Maybe I am missing your point but for one is infinite and the other is finite


I get what you are saying but I have a few points:

First, student loan principle should be written down, rates should be reduced and student loan interest and maybe even principle payments should be tax writeoffs in the way that home mortgage interest is. High income professionals and small business owners are probably taxed too much and CEO's and high end rentiers (people who make a million a year or more on their stocks and bonds) are untaxed.

Second, a system where the government has fairly high taxes but that also pays for all of your schooling is safer for you, the student and graduate. The bank wants its payments no matter what happens to you, a high tax-high service model only takes its bite after you finish school and only if you are earning a lot of money. In finance, the question of who assumes the risk is huge and under our current system you assume all of the risk and the bank/lender assumes none.

Third, considering the size of medical school debt, the majority of a doctor's working years will involve paying student loans, which is essentially a tax. Also, the high marginal rate will eventually end when you retire, which will not be all that long after the student loan tax finally ends.

Forth, do we want a system where all or almost every doctor and lawyer is upper middle class or rich? In medicine, it may not matter all that much but in law? Rich people think we have too many lawyers (because they are constantly suing each other) but poor people have far too little access to legal representation. Some lawyers, whose parents paid for their education, do pro bono work but it is just not enough. It would great if poor black and Latino folks could get a JD, have no debt and get a 80k-120K per year stipend if they serve the poor communities from whence they came.

Also, you have to remember that every judge is either a former attorney or law professor. That means that rising law school costs, combined with our debt-indenture model of educational funding for non rich students, ensures that the law profession will become even more tilted towards rich students in the future.


Poor and middle class students are wise to avoid the debt-indenture that comes with graduate school but we are all made poorer when only children of the rich become doctors, lawyers, university professors and scientists.
 
Then take out a damn loan, or find some scholarship or grant money. There's absolutely no reason that people can't go to school if they want to.

What makes you think I haven't applied for scholarships, and what makes you think I qualify for every single one of them?

I also don't qualify for grants either because of how my mom makes.

Basically I should already be in extreme debt before I transfer because tuition is unnecessarily high? I guess somehow that's cool to people.
Then tell your mom to help yo *** with school :lol
 
reading through the last few pages in this thread...

CCs been overcrowded since before the Obama admin came in. CC's were full since before I graduated HS in '03. Even in summer classes you had to camp out at a GE class and hope someone doesn't show up.

In the UC system, the latest school UC Merced opened in 2011 I think. Before that, I believe it was in the '70s.

The lack of teachers/professors in our public schools/colleges is directly related to pay and job stress. If I was a good teacher, experience, high passing/testing rates for my students, etc. why would I take/stay at a crap job at some public CC/HS for low pay when I have offers to teach at some pricy private school? Unfortunately, real life isnt Dangerous Minds. Dig a few levels deeper and it'll go back to govt education spending of course.

No Child Left Behind is a disgrace. That's why kids don't know algebra coming out of HS, you have to dumb down the curriculum and hold little Jimmy Slacker's hand through Integrated Math II so he won't fail. Also you need to teach your students whatever crap is on the standardized test so the school can get some of the very little public education funds, instead of teaching them useful/interesting/real world information. Computer programming is not on the Golden State Exam.
 
What if you didn't finish I been itching to go back.. Economics class used to give me a hard on
 
Bruh nobody forces you to join the military.
laugh.gif
FOH with that "sign your life away" BS. You didn't have to serve.
No where in my post did I imply that I was forced, or that I don't enjoy what I do. 

Don't put words in my mouth to fit your ignorant opinion.
 
Then take out a damn loan, or find some scholarship or grant money. There's absolutely no reason that people can't go to school if they want to.

What makes you think I haven't applied for scholarships, and what makes you think I qualify for every single one of them?

I also don't qualify for grants either because of how my mom makes.

Basically I should already be in extreme debt before I transfer because tuition is unnecessarily high? I guess somehow that's cool to people.
Then tell your mom to help yo *** with school :lol

You guys are insufferable.
 
I get what you are saying but I have a few points:

First, student loan principle should be written down, rates should be reduced and student loan interest and maybe even principle payments should be tax writeoffs in the way that home mortgage interest is. High income professionals and small business owners are probably taxed too much and CEO's and high end rentiers (people who make a million a year or more on their stocks and bonds) are untaxed.

Second, a system where the government has fairly high taxes but that also pays for all of your schooling is safer for you, the student and graduate. The bank wants its payments no matter what happens to you, a high tax-high service model only takes its bite after you finish school and only if you are earning a lot of money. In finance, the question of who assumes the risk is huge and under our current system you assume all of the risk and the bank/lender assumes none.

Third, considering the size of medical school debt, the majority of a doctor's working years will involve paying student loans, which is essentially a tax. Also, the high marginal rate will eventually end when you retire, which will not be all that long after the student loan tax finally ends.

Forth, do we want a system where all or almost every doctor and lawyer is upper middle class or rich? In medicine, it may not matter all that much but in law? Rich people think we have too many lawyers (because they are constantly suing each other) but poor people have far too little access to legal representation. Some lawyers, whose parents paid for their education, do pro bono work but it is just not enough. It would great if poor black and Latino folks could get a JD, have no debt and get a 80k-120K per year stipend if they serve the poor communities from whence they came.

Also, you have to remember that every judge is either a former attorney or law professor. That means that rising law school costs, combined with our debt-indenture model of educational funding for non rich students, ensures that the law profession will become even more tilted towards rich students in the future.


Poor and middle class students are wise to avoid the debt-indenture that comes with graduate school but we are all made poorer when only children of the rich become doctors, lawyers, university professors and scientists.

Agree with a lot of what you said to your first point student loan interest can be written off on taxes for many people but Unfortunately but also Forutunately I make too much money and am thus excluded from the tax write off.
To the second point in this case its the govt itself that wants its payment no matter what happens.
I do disagree with the tax rate thing. I already pay almost half my income in taxes I dont need anymore. I could only imagine if I lived in a state with a high state income tax. I will have my student loans paid off in a few years as I refuse to have an albatross hanging around my neck for my career. Some people do choose to carry their debt their whole career for a multitude of reasons. Some who graduated in the early 2000's have their rates locked in a like 2% so they can make much more investing that money vs paying it off. I personally would still pay it off.
Although the amount of debt you have to take out to get a MD or JD is absurd it doesnt keep many people from doing what they want to do. I think alot of people whose parents are physicians or lawyers go into that field following in their parents footsteps. If their parents pay for the education then they have a huge leg up but even those who parents are in those fields many of them dont pay for their childs graduate school education. I can say that the VAST majority of the students take out a great deal of loans and the people who come out debt free is in the significant minority. Now if the reimbursements and salary keeps dropping as they have been and people start to see that even if they complete an MD or JD that the high income salary others once saw is a thing of the past then they may stop taking out the loans and going other routes as you portrayed.
 
You guys are insufferable.

You keep telling people they're selfish but haven't really explained your stance.

Pretty easy to sling guilt and not offer any semblance of reason.

Folks gotta be okay with every plan to help others or else they're selfish? Doesn't matter if they have their own family to look after? Doesn't matter if they have their own plans?

Doesn't matter if they believe there might be a better way of going about education reform than this plan?

Doesn't matter if logistically this plan is going to put already understaffed and overcrowded community colleges into a state of disarray?

I mean come on.


I have an autistic three year old boy. I don't receive any government aid for him and his education because there really isn't any beyond just basic schooling same as every other kid.

As far as his developmental pediatrician, his therapy, everything else is on me and his mother. There is going to be a time when she and I are not on this planet and he needs to take care of his self and that may not be a realistic option so we need to put money aside for his future.

But I'm selfish right? Because I need to take care of everyone else's kids, right?

And God forbid the government cuts the defense budget to fund new plans. Naw **** all that right?

Im with education reform, just a matter of how. This isnt the way and I dont feel its selfish for me to feel that way.
 
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When the government proposes something for the benefit of the people and you're thinking "what about me .. I have this and that .. I don't get this and that"

Yeah that's selfish :lol
 
You guys are insufferable.

You keep telling people they're selfish but haven't really explained your stance.

Pretty easy to sling guilt and not offer any semblance of reason.

Folks gotta be okay with every plan to help others or else they're selfish? Doesn't matter if they have their own family to look after? Doesn't matter if they have their own plans?

Doesn't matter if they believe there might be a better way of going about education reform than this plan?

Doesn't matter if logistically this plan is going to put already understaffed and overcrowded community colleges into a state of disarray?

I mean come on.


I have an autistic three year old boy. I don't receive any government aid for him and his education because there really isn't any beyond just basic schooling same as every other kid.

As far as his developmental pediatrician, his therapy, everything else is on me and his mother. There is going to be a time when she and I are not on this planet and he needs to take care of his self and that may not be a realistic option so we need to put money aside for his future.

But I'm selfish right? Because I need to take care of everyone else's kids, right?

And God forbid the government cuts the defense budget to fund new plans. Naw **** all that right?

Im with education reform, just a matter of how. This isnt the way and I dont feel its selfish for me to feel that way.

You don't receive any tax credits for you kid ?

And yeah, you still sound kinda selfish brah.

-This is like just Obamacare, people want a perfect plan, that helps them, yet cost them nothing. And are pissed at Obama dared to even take the slightest step in the right direction.
 
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When the government proposes something for the benefit of the people and you're thinking "what about me .. I have this and that .. I don't get this and that"

Yeah that's selfish :lol

Again one doesn't have to agree to every plan that's supposedly for the benefit of the people.

That's just silly, especially when said plan isn't really practical.

I'm not saying what about me, I don't want any help from the government for my son. I'm fine helping myself, my point is I don't have to be in agreement with every plan helping others.
 
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You don't receive any tax credits for you kid ?

And yeah, you still sound kinda selfish brah.

-This is like just Obamacare, people want a perfect plan, that helps them, yet cost them nothing. And are pissed at Obama dared to even take the slightest step in the right direction.

Not about a perfect plan. And this isn't a step in the right direction since it doesn't even take into account the logistical difficulties community colleges ALREADY face.

Again great idea on the face of it, just a horribly impractical one.

Its like slapping a bandaid on a shotgun wound. Lets just throw **** on the wall until something sticks right?

Also it's not about tax credit or financial help for my son. Its the fact that 1 out of 60 children are born with autism and traditional schooling doesnt really benefit children on the spectrum since they learn differently then typical children. It would be nice if a specialized curriculum was implemented for kids with autism/aspergers since so many kids are now being born with the spectrum.

But I don't expect it or ask for any special treatment. Folks so ready to take without taking into account what people are already giving.

Basically ya'll want me to run my pockets and not ask any questions. My opinion is immaterial and having one that opposes any plan that is for the "benefit of everyone" is selfish.

Got it, my bad. I'll remember that next time and keep my mouth shut and wallet open. My apologies.
 
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Thought most autistic kids got a government check...why not yours?
 
Thought most autistic kids got a government check...why not yours?


Where did you get that from? You are misinformed. We don't qualify for social security benefits as we are not low-income.

Anyways I'm out this thread. I enjoyed the debate until I realized having an opposing opinion or feeling there may be a better way to achieve the desired results is selfish. Again I apologize for not having realized this earlier.
 
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When the government proposes something for the benefit of the people and you're thinking "what about me .. I have this and that .. I don't get this and that"

Yeah that's selfish :lol

Again one doesn't have to agree to every plan that's supposedly for the benefit of the people.

That's just silly, especially when said plan isn't really practical.

I'm not saying what about me, I don't want any help from the government for my son. I'm fine helping myself, my point is I don't have to be in agreement with every plan helping others.
You're right you don't have to agree but when you say you don't agree and then list personal stuff it sounds like you're making it about you that's all
 
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There's still no mention of funding and allocation, folks are assuming they're going to run your pockets extra. I really dislike this small world view of focusing on beneficial programs as a pariah, assuming they directly affect your pockets when the actual major offenders when it comes to govt funding get away with it because you don't understand it or aren't a part of that world. Taxes get increased regardless in more clever, silent ways because announcing the cause really isn't politically beneficial. Misplaced outrage, selfish sense of entitlement. So far there are loan forgiveness programs, free 1st two years of cc if you qualify, Trying to keep the loan rates from doubling etc. I don't see how that's not a step in the right direction. Everyone wants to complain about injustices like the cost of college and student loan debt but no one wants to do their part. "Yeah! This is wrong! Wait what? I gotta do something? Nah I got my own **** going on"
 
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Not everyone qualifies for grants or scholarships. People like to throw that around all the time, but just because they're there, it doesn't mean you will get them.

People also ignore the fact that just because they're two year schools, that that's all it takes to meet the requirements to transfer or graduate. And it's not for PLENTY of majors. I went to my CC straight out of HS (17), and I just turned 22, and I'm just now leaving. I have one more semester. My major is computer science, and it requires a bunch of math before I even transfer. I placed in the second lowest math class at that school. That class was Pre Algebra. After that I had to take, Elementary Algebra, Intermediate Algebra, Trigonometry, Pre-Calculus, Calculus I, Calculus II, Calculus III, Linear Algebra, and Differential Equations. That's 10 ******* math classes, all before I transfer. No way in hell that's going to be done in two years. I'm not the only one in a situation like that. It's pretty damn normal actually. Especially when the school you go to doesn't even offer the classes you need to take, and can't go to another school, so the process can be even longer. To get a Stem degree, it will take at least 2 more years to meet the requirements to transfer or graduate. If a person were to use all of the grants they were offered, they wouldn't have much for the four year universities. You can only get 6 years worth of pell grants by the way. So not only would this help some folks get an AA, it will help people with their financial situation when it comes to loans and all that.

Honestly you should just study your *** off and CLEP out of those math classes. Not smart to waste all of that time at a CC on math classes. I just graduated as a CS major i know the math struggle, but it is doable.

All of these people in here talking about PELL grants like they are handed out to everyone :lol . I received one grant that was 3K/yr everything else was a sub/unsub loan and that didn't even cover tuition. My financial aid was cut in half for my last year of school because my mom pulled out some money out of her 401K it was ridiculous.
 
Where did you get that from? You are misinformed. We don't qualify for social security benefits as we are not low-income.

Anyways I'm out this thread. I enjoyed the debate until I realized having an opposing opinion or feeling there may be a better way to achieve the desired results is selfish. Again I apologize for not having realized this earlier.
Welcome to NT, where the only opinions that matter are those that agree with the majority.
 
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