Positive Male Influence Appreciation Thread

[boris]

Well, then I guess a woman can teach boy to be a "good person".... being a man means learning gender roles which most women would not be able to sufficiently teach.
Then the original statement saying a women can't teach [a boy] how to be a man stands true.

Gender roles have become pretty subjective, especially in today's society. Even if we ignore that, why can't women sufficiently teach gender roles?

 

[big j 33]

Teaching gender roles isn't automatically a positive thing either . Gender roles are often outdated, sexist, and subjective.

I always see people list things that they think make up a man and it's the same things you'd want and expect a woman to do as well

 

[antonlavey]

So i guess men (in general) also posses the knowledge and experience to teach a girl how to be a woman right?

Of course, women learn a lot from good fathers. This type of thinking is why many ignorant people tried not to allow same sex couples to adopt children. Two fathers and two mothers can raise very successful children and better human beings.

 

[powerballin]

How can a woman teach a young man to do things she herself hasn't done?  Things herself she can't relate to?  The mentally of a man and a woman are different.  We are different emotionally, genetically, physically, etc.  This isn't an attack on single mothers.  And I promise you if you ask any single mother they will say they would rather have a man to help raise their sons. 

Also the name of this thread is Positive Male influence and you guys are talking about "learning negative things".  Thats not even on topic

 

[antonlavey]

Teaching gender roles isn't automatically a positive thing either . Gender roles are often outdated, sexist, and subjective.
I always see people list things that they think make up a man and it's the same things you'd want and expect a woman to do as well

Thank goodness there are smart people on NT. A man can teach good but can also teach evil. Dudes are out here acting like being raised by the opposite sex is like being raised by a wolf.

 

[powerballin]

Teaching gender roles isn't automatically a positive thing either . Gender roles are often outdated, sexist, and subjective.
I always see people list things that they think make up a man and it's the same things you'd want and expect a woman to do as well

Thank goodness there are smart people on NT. A man can teach good but can also teach evil. Dudes are out here acting like being raised by the opposite sex is like being raised by a wolf.

Women can't teach evil? 

 

[antonlavey]

Women can't teach evil? 

They both can, that's my point. Being raised by a man doesn't make you a better person in any way. You could even make the argument that being raised by a woman can raise you to be a better husband. My mom taught me how to be a gentleman (opening doors and what no). She failed miserably.

But my point is, an attempt was made.

 

[boris]

How can a woman teach a young man to do things she herself hasn't done?  Things herself she can't relate to?  The mentally of a man and a woman are different.  We are different emotionally, genetically, physically, etc.  This isn't an attack on single mothers.  And I promise you if you ask any single mother they will say they would rather have a man to help raise their sons. 

Also the name of this thread is Positive Male influence and you guys are talking about "learning negative things".  Thats not even on topic

You need to read what you wrote in your original post and the responses to that. You did not list male specific traits. If you intended to say that those traits are what help define a "man", you have failed in establishing that a woman can't a boy to be a "man". 

 

[dt43]

So i guess men (in general) also posses the knowledge and experience to teach a girl how to be a woman right?

Yep. It's not as if the a dad is trying to reach his daughter how to grow a penis. Besides, you all are putting to great an emphasis on gender and gender roles. What should matter is whether an individual has positive influences that teaches them to be good people.

Well, then I guess a woman can teach boy to be a "good person".... being a man means learning gender roles which most women would not be able to sufficiently teach.

Then the original statement saying a women can't teach [a boy] how to be a man stands true.

Which gender roles specifically are you referring to?

And how many of them are NOT derived from basic human principles (kindness, decency, honesty, golden rule, etc)? Which, you surely would agree, can be imparted by any adult regardless of gender..

 

[powerballin]

 

[antonlavey]

I would like to know too, what are these gender specific traits he keeps vaguely referring to?

 

[big j 33]

Post examples of these things women can't teach. And of course they would want the father around, if they're both good parents who wouldn't want the other around?

The point you're missing is the absence of a male role model doesn't mean that they're destined to be a failure. The same as the presence of one doesn't guarantee success.

And you got off topic yourself with your first post and your assumptions and false claims on gender roles

 

[createdestroy]

So i guess men (in general) also posses the knowledge and experience to teach a girl how to be a woman right?

Yep. It's not as if the a dad is trying to reach his daughter how to grow a penis. Besides, you all are putting to great an emphasis on gender and gender roles. What should matter is whether an individual has positive influences that teaches them to be good people.

Well, then I guess a woman can teach boy to be a "good person".... being a man means learning gender roles which most women would not be able to sufficiently teach.

Then the original statement saying a women can't teach [a boy] how to be a man stands true.

Which gender roles specifically are you referring to?

And how many of them are NOT derived from basic human principles (kindness, decency, honesty, golden rule, etc)? Which, you surely would agree, can be imparted by any adult regardless of gender..

As long as the experience of being a woman/man differ in the way society expects them to be/treats them; there will be a necessity for those with the experience from each path to impart knowledge on how to successfully navigate through the aforementioned experiences.

Peer pressure differs from male and female. Dating roles. Politics (social, corporate, academic, military, and governmental). Even criminal prosecution differs.

Human principles are great, but gender roles still maintain cultural significance.

For these reasons I believe it is advantageous to have a role model who has experience in whatever gender identity you relate to/will experience.

 

[Mactastic4167]

Always had my father growing up although he was states away, I always try to have positive older mentors around me and my fraternity brothers.

 

[powerballin]

I really would like to know the thoughts of that video I posted on the last page

 

[createdestroy]

needs to be quoted for page 3

 

[antonlavey]

As long as the experience of being a woman/man differ in the way society expects them to be/treats them; there will be a necessity for those with the experience from each path to impart knowledge on how to successfully navigate through the aforementioned experiences.
Peer pressure differs from male and female. Dating roles. Politics (social, corporate, academic, military, and governmental). Even criminal prosecution differs.
Human principles are great, but gender roles still maintain cultural significance.
For these reasons I believe it is advantageous to have a role model who has experience in whatever gender identity you relate to/will experience.

I have no choice in the matter, I was born a male and society will treat me as such. But this doesn't mean I needed to be raised by a male. I didn't need a man to remind me that I am a male on a day to day basis. People pick up gender roles with their interactions with society. We are socialized from a young age, gender roles are perpetuated in schools, the workplace etc.

 

[powerballin]

 

needs to be quoted for page 3

I put it in the OG post on page 1

 

[createdestroy]

As long as the experience of being a woman/man differ in the way society expects them to be/treats them; there will be a necessity for those with the experience from each path to impart knowledge on how to successfully navigate through the aforementioned experiences.
Peer pressure differs from male and female. Dating roles. Politics (social, corporate, academic, military, and governmental). Even criminal prosecution differs.
Human principles are great, but gender roles still maintain cultural significance.
For these reasons I believe it is advantageous to have a role model who has experience in whatever gender identity you relate to/will experience.

I have no choice in the matter, I was born a male and society will treat me as such. But this doesn't mean I needed to be raised by a male. I didn't need a man to remind me that I am a male on a day to day basis. People pick up gender roles with their interactions with society. We are socialized from a young age, gender roles are perpetuated in schools, the workplace etc.

1. Nobody said you "needed" to be raised by a male....

2. Nobody said you needed a man to remind you that you are a male..

3. Yes we are socialized and "pick up" our roles......but it is ADVANTAGEOUS to be fed your role from a trusted source and pick up this identity from somebody who cares/loves you rather than those who are just around you/strangers/media

Furthermore..you are proving my point by saying you pick up roles perpetuated in school and workplace etc.

You are confirming the fact that [most] women cannot teach a boy how to be a man. The schools, workplace, peers finish where the women fall short...

 

[antonlavey]

1. Nobody said you "needed" to be raised by a male....
2. Nobody said you needed a man to remind you that you are a male..
3. Yes we are socialized and "pick up" our roles......but it is ADVANTAGEOUS to be fed your role from a trusted source and pick up this identity from somebody who cares/loves you rather than those who are just around you/strangers/media
Furthermore..you are proving my point by saying you pick up roles perpetuated in school and workplace etc.
You are confirming the fact that [most] women cannot teach a boy how to be a man. The schools, workplace, peers finish where the women fall short...

I say it ISN'T advantageous. You are socialized from birth through your interactions with society whether you like it or not. You see boys playing with army trucks and the girls playing with dolls and you just role with it. That is what I meant by being socialized from an early age. I believe a man or a woman can teach you how to be a good HUMAN BEING. But being a "man" isn't something that is important to "learn", it is something I have to deal with whether I like it or not. I have not proven your point about anything. Many women have raised boys, those boys had no choice but to become men.


People are still being extremely vague about what it means to be a man. I haven't heard one person describe it explicitly in this thread, people are just beating around the bush.

 

[createdestroy]

1. Nobody said you "needed" to be raised by a male....
2. Nobody said you needed a man to remind you that you are a male..
3. Yes we are socialized and "pick up" our roles......but it is ADVANTAGEOUS to be fed your role from a trusted source and pick up this identity from somebody who cares/loves you rather than those who are just around you/strangers/media
Furthermore..you are proving my point by saying you pick up roles perpetuated in school and workplace etc.
You are confirming the fact that [most] women cannot teach a boy how to be a man. The schools, workplace, peers finish where the women fall short...

But being a "man" isn't something that is important to "learn", it is something I have to deal with whether I like it or not.

So learning about something "you have to deal with" your whole life from somebody else who had to deal with it their whole life is not advantageous???

Wow...you are trying so hard to hold on to your point that you're not even trying to make sense.

 

[dt43]

So i guess men (in general) also posses the knowledge and experience to teach a girl how to be a woman right?

Yep. It's not as if the a dad is trying to reach his daughter how to grow a penis. Besides, you all are putting to great an emphasis on gender and gender roles. What should matter is whether an individual has positive influences that teaches them to be good people.

Well, then I guess a woman can teach boy to be a "good person".... being a man means learning gender roles which most women would not be able to sufficiently teach.

Then the original statement saying a women can't teach [a boy] how to be a man stands true.

Which gender roles specifically are you referring to?

And how many of them are NOT derived from basic human principles (kindness, decency, honesty, golden rule, etc)? Which, you surely would agree, can be imparted by any adult regardless of gender..

As long as the experience of being a woman/man differ in the way society expects them to be/treats them; there will be a necessity for those with the experience from each path to impart knowledge on how to successfully navigate through the aforementioned experiences.

Peer pressure differs from male and female. Dating roles. Politics (social, corporate, academic, military, and governmental). Even criminal prosecution differs.

Human principles are great, but gender roles still maintain cultural significance.

For these reasons I believe it is advantageous to have a role model who has experience in whatever gender identity you relate to/will experience.

All you've said is that a male role model can be useful in teaching a child about male social constructs. But are those things really what makes one a 'man'?

At the end of the day, the traits that matter the most are the ones derived from basic human principles. There are plenty of scruff, hairy, deep-voiced men who turn out to be weak cowards inside. On the same token, there have been men who may not have fit societies archetype of a 'man's man', yet are admired for their virtue and character.

I really would like to know the thoughts of that video I posted on the last page

Like I said above.. are things like having a strong handshake and never crying really what makes one a "man'? Not saying those things aren't worth talking about, but are they really the bottom-line issues that should be focused on?

Instead of raising my child with all types of expectations in his head to live up to, I'd rather raise a child who knows that no matter what happens, nothing anyone can say about his "manhood" will shake who he truly is inside. If I know that he has that, anything else he learns will just be icing on the cake.

 

[antonlavey]

So learning about something "you have to deal with" your whole life from somebody else who had to deal with it their whole life is not advantageous???
Wow...you are trying so hard to hold on to your point that you're not even trying to make sense.

I am making perfect sense. My biggest role model is a woman, she gave me all the tools I need to succeed in life. Whether or not I learned these things from a man or a woman is completely irrelevant. I learned how to be a good husband and father someday from my mother. This isn't rocket science.


What are these esoteric things you people are learning from men.\? I have many male role models, I don't see anything special about them when compared to female counterparts. I guess my coach taught me how to throw a nice spiral, but that's about it.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

So i guess men (in general) also posses the knowledge and experience to teach a girl how to be a woman right?

Yep. It's not as if the a dad is trying to reach his daughter how to grow a penis. Besides, you all are putting to great an emphasis on gender and gender roles. What should matter is whether an individual has positive influences that teaches them to be good people.

Well, then I guess a woman can teach boy to be a "good person".... being a man means learning gender roles which most women would not be able to sufficiently teach.

Then the original statement saying a women can't teach [a boy] how to be a man stands true.

Which gender roles specifically are you referring to?

And how many of them are NOT derived from basic human principles (kindness, decency, honesty, golden rule, etc)? Which, you surely would agree, can be imparted by any adult regardless of gender..

As long as the experience of being a woman/man differ in the way society expects them to be/treats them; there will be a necessity for those with the experience from each path to impart knowledge on how to successfully navigate through the aforementioned experiences.

Peer pressure differs from male and female. Dating roles. Politics (social, corporate, academic, military, and governmental). Even criminal prosecution differs.

Human principles are great, but gender roles still maintain cultural significance.

For these reasons I believe it is advantageous to have a role model who has experience in whatever gender identity you relate to/will experience.

All you've said is that a male role model can be useful in teaching a child about male social constructs. But are those things really what makes one a 'man'?

At the end of the day, the traits that matter the most are the ones derived from basic human principles. There are plenty of scruff, hairy, deep-voiced men who turn out to be weak cowards inside. On the same token, there have been men who may not have fit societies archetype of a 'man's man', yet are admired for their virtue and character.

I really would like to know the thoughts of that video I posted on the last page

Like I said above.. are things like having a strong handshake and never crying really what makes one a "man'? Not saying those things aren't worth talking about, but are they really the bottom-line issues that should be focused on?

Instead of raising my child with all types of expectations in his head to live up to, I'd rather raise a child who knows that no matter what happens, nothing anyone can say about his "manhood" will shake who he truly is inside. If I know that he has that, anything else he learns will just be icing on the cake.

all of this. All of it.

 

[d e beatup]

Of course a woman can teach a boy all the things about being a man. Real issue is how effective will it be coming from a female though. It's like getting financial advice from someone who makes less $ than you; even if they give you 100% spot on advice on money management skills, UT usually won't have as much impact as it would coming from a self-made millionaire writing the exact same words.