***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

sure, okay but their are plenty of good things we can spend money to IMPROVE police departments.

this idea that you spend less money on something and it gets better is so weird.

the whole point of that meme I posted was the money is still going be spent, just elsewhere to better serve the community AND the police

 

[AEA18]

People who get it, get it and then there are people who don't want to get it.

Slogan could've been "Reallocate Police Funds" and that would have faced the same pushback.

 

[IATT]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

the whole point of that meme I posted was the money is still going be spent, just elsewhere to better serve the community AND the police

yeah and I disagree, i think it's dumb and wrong.


Plenty of police department things we should spend money, in fact MORE money on
to improve policing, and decrease police violence.

so this idea of cutting one to fund another makes no sense to me. how about fund all of them.




and if you think just demilitarizing police is enough to fund those other programs I think your math is way off.

 

[IATT]

People who get it, get it and then there are people who don't want to get it.

Slogan could've been "Reallocate Police Funds" and that would have faced the same pushback.

people have found ways to purposely misinterpret “matter”, “anti-fascism” and “planned parenthood“

certain people going find a reason no matter what.. and got a crap ton of stupid as hell people

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Who is saying defund the police? At least enough on a national stage at an aggressive clip. Honest question. Seems I hear it more as a boogeyman man argument than from the mouth of legislators or those with influence. Like they same way they obfuscated "black lives matter".

let's leave aside who is saying and the political strategy.

I think it's just a bad idea.


and no version of it I've ever heard sounds like a good idea.

 

[Comparison Ford]

Has this argument been going on for a month now?

 

[junglejim]

People who get it, get it and then there are people who don't want to get it.

Slogan could've been "Reallocate Police Funds" and that would have faced the same pushback.

Or "Demilitarize the police" or "Fund Social Services" or "Fund Education" or "Fund Health Care"

This sounds pretty stupid, but one of the problems democrats have is they lay out detailed plans on how they pay for stuff when their counter party just lays out incredibly broad plans for how their proposals will be paid for. The answer for lower taxes is ALWAYS it will be paid for by economic growth. Bernie and Warren's plans sounded great until they released their tax plans that showed like 20% increases in effective tax rates which most people aren't going to get behind. If they are going to pay for by reallocating funds from spending programs like the military then they need to come up with better responses to said proposals other than "defund the police" which you can't really do at a federal level anyways.

 

[IATT]

yeah and I disagree, i think it's dumb and wrong.


Plenty of police department things we should spend money, in fact MORE money
to improve policing, and decrease police violence.

so this idea of cutting one to fund another makes no sense. how about fund all of them.




and if you think just demilitarizing police is enough to fund those other programs I think your math is way off.

i mean also could throw in the absurd amounts of money that were being spent at trump properties if the unnecessary military vehicles and equipment isn’t enough for ya

 

[osh kosh bosh]

people have found a way to purposely misinterpret “matter”, “anti-fascism” and “planned parenthood“

certain people going find a reason no matter what.. and got a crap ton of stupid as hell people

I think you are underestimating people.

some People don't like planned parenthood because some people are against abortion.
some People don't like Antifa because some people don't like brick throwing hipsters.
and some people don't like defund the police because some people do not want to decrease police funding.

non of that seems stupid or dumb to me.
seems like just a disagreement.

 

[Mark Antony]

let's leave aside who is saying and the political strategy

Uhh no that's my entire question. If there's no real push with the slogan, why be a part of making it a distraction and propaganda? Again if there is I would like to know and how it's being implemented.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Uhh no that's my entire question. If there's no real push with the slogan, why be a part of making it a distraction and propaganda? Again if there is I would like to know and how it's being implemented.

well i disagree about that.


there's is clearly been many prominent activists, a few politicians and media people pushing the defund the police idea.

 

[junglejim]

i disagree.

better job training,
recruiting more diverse departments,
spending more money on actually solving murders.


all police department things that we should spend more money on.

We can do this with the funding that a lot of departments already have. Most departments do no need to military equipment that they purchase or new cars every single year. The LAPD spent $3 billion dollars last year and was responsible for 51% of the LA city budget. The LAPD has 10,000 officers which means they are spending $300K per officer in their current budget. Over policing and quota systems are part of the reason why we the most incarcerated population on earth.

You use we very loosely for someone who doesn't live in America.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

 

[fargin]

-People should be treated equally and fairly.

-These identity politics turn moderates away!!!

 

[Mark Antony]

well i disagree about that.


there's is clearly been many prominent activists, a few politicians and media people pushing the defund the police idea.

I clearly and boldly see the word abolish (which we all know there's a set that believes this) there which is different than the core argument of "defund..", a nice goalpost move, and also still no political influence there. I also see what this is, you be good.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

We can do this with the funding that a lot of departments already have. Most departments do no need to military equipment that they purchase or new cars every single year. The LAPD spent $3 billion dollars last year and was responsible for 51% of the LA city budget. Over policing and quota systems are part of the reason why we the most incarcerated population on earth.

You use we very loosely for someone who doesn't live in America.

1. yeah i don't think that 51% figure is correct.

2. again military equipment aint enough to fund a whole bunch of new government programs.

3. there's a defund the police movement where i live. I also think it's bad and wrong.

4. I don't think they should purchase new cars or military equipment.

but there are plenty of good things, the plice should spend MORE money on. defunding solves nothing.

 

[IATT]

I think you are underestimating people.

some People don't like planned parenthood because some people are against abortion.
some People don't like Antifa because some people don't like brick throwing hipsters.
and some people don't like defund the police because some people do not want to decrease police funding.

non of that seems stupid or dumb to me.
seems like just a disagreement.

some people think the earth is flat

some people think COVID 19 is a hoax

some people still support a known racist with 50 years of evidence against him in Donald trump

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I clearly and boldly see the word abolish (which we all know there's a set that believes this) there which is different than the core argument of "defund..", a nice goalpost move, and also still no political influence there. I also see what this is, you be good.

should i continue?

 

[IATT]

Definition of DEFUND

to withdraw funding from… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

Definition of ABOLISH

to end the observance or effect of (something, such as a law) : to completely do away with (something) : annul… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The defund the police discourse is bizarre.

"DEFUND THE POLICE!"

"BE SMART NO ONE ACTUALLY WANTS TO DEFUND THE POLICE!"

"ACTUALLY NO, LITERALLY DEFUND THE POLICE!"

"WAIT NO ONE IS ACTUALLY SAYING DEFUND THE POLICE!"


Defund the police doesn't mean defund the police, and no one is saying it, but it doesn't matter, but we should definitely do it." wut?

 

[KHUFU]

Obama’s Curious Cautiousness
He is a great politician, but he is not an activist.



Barack Obama continues his rather strange mission to confront and correct young liberal activists. It is an odd post-presidential note: A man who is beloved and admired on the left is using his cultural currency as a corrective against those who are on a quest for change.

Wednesday morning on Peter Hamby’s Snapchat show, “Good Luck America,” Obama said this:

“If you believe, as I do, that we should be able to reform the criminal justice system so that it’s not biased and treats everybody fairly, I guess you can use a snappy slogan like ‘Defund the police,’ but, you know, you lost a big audience the minute you say it, which makes it a lot less likely that you’re actually going to get the changes you want done.”

It was not the first time Obama had taken aim at these young activists. Last year he also took a swipe at wokeness and “call-out culture,” saying, among other things: “If all you’re doing is casting stones, you’re probably not going to get that far. That’s easy to do.”

That speech got him an amen from Ann Coulter, who tweeted: “Good for Obama. (Not sarcastic!)”

These chastisements by Obama delineate the difference between the politician and the activist.

Opinion | Obama’s Curious Cautiousness (Published 2020)

He is a great politician, but he is not an activist.

www.nytimes.com

 

[junglejim]

1. yeah i don't think that 51% figure is correct.

2. again military equipment aint enough to fund a whole bunch of new government programs.

3. there's a defund the police movement where i live. I also think it's bad and wrong.

4. I don't think they should purchase new cars or military equipment.

but there are plenty of good things, the plice should spend MORE money on. defunding solves nothing.

You are right, it only consumes a mere 33% of the total budget. The 51% was the amount of discretionary budget which is spent on the LAPD so that's my fault, but the $3B budget number was correct. The 1.5B above does not include discretionary spending.

Defund the LAPD? At this pace, it would take 20 years to hit Black Lives Matter's goal

Even with budget cuts, police spending in Los Angeles will reach about $3 billion a year. How did the LAPD come to consume to much of the city's 'unrestricted' money?

www.latimes.com

But my point is the police and military are the only two departments in the US that we do not ask to do it more efficiently. Education, healthcare, everything else we put on a strict budget then tell them to figure it out. We give the police and military a blank check every year and do not hold their spending accountable. We spend more on military spending than the next 10 largest countries combined. There is zero reason that we should fund MORE to that as opposed to telling them to be more efficient with the funds they currently receive like we do with absolutely everything else.

I also disagree with your second point. It is absolutely enough when you look at the fact that LA spends $3B on police but $80M on housing, $180M on transportation, and only spends 1/8th of what the police spends on their fire department. Police spending is absolutely an issue.

 

[Based Jesus]

This again? Gonna be a long day.

 

[IATT]

The defund the police discourse is bizarre.

"DEFUND THE POLICE!"

"BE SMART NO ONE ACTUALLY WANTS TO DEFUND THE POLICE!"

"ACTUALLY NO, LITERALLY DEFUND THE POLICE!"

"WAIT NO ONE IS ACTUALLY SAYING DEFUND THE POLICE!"


Defund the police doesn't mean defund the police, and no one is saying it, but it doesn't matter, but we should definitely do it." wut?

defund ≠ abolish