***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Nike Jordan]

BTW, he's not talking about the 2005 film, the 2007 sequel or even the 1994 film that never officially saw the light of day.

He's referring to the infamous 2015 Fant4stic.

 

[IATT]

 

[Nike Jordan]

 

[IATT]

 

[rexanglorum]

Trump is kinda right, studies show racial sensitivity training at best doesn't work and in some cases make things worse.

If you don’t mind, could you post those studies. I’m curious because it seems counter intuitive that it would make the situation worse. I can definitely see it not having a big effect. I am also curious how success or failure are

The biggest takeaway I noticed while on Twitter during the debates is that a whole lot of folks need to seriously read and probably find some engaged interest in understanding the ins and outs of civics and politics (for their own good). So many people in my age group (mid twenties) seem to lack understanding of why Joe Biden was nominated, and how we ended up with Trump in the first place. The former is water under the bridge, but the latter will push you to start taking this stuff more seriously instead of sharing snarky "both sides are the same" tweets and posts. I fear that if we ever get out of this, folks will fall back into apathy instead of realizing the power we could have in terms of pushing legislation.


Biden did what he needed to do tonight, he stayed above water while Trump self-destructed. The upcoming town hall should further bury Trump, especially if it's not filled with his stans. Biden has empathy, and Trump cannot empathize with literally anyone and people in the audience will notice. But ultimately, I hope this debacle was eye opening to people and makes more folks want to dig deeper on Biden's proposals to see areas where mobilization can occur to push him towards stronger policies for everyone (especially Black folks).

When someone says they won’t vote, because they believe that “both sides are the same,” I understand the temptation to grab an example where the Democratic Party creates better (as in more equitable) outcomes. Technically, you have shattered their whole premise and have “won“ the debate but it is not likely to change their decision to not vote because you have really addressed their alienation, the alienation that makes them feel like voting is pointless.

As someone who is deeply critical about the Democratic Party inherent resistance to the sort of revolutionary change that we need, and also votes for their candidates, I would suggest the following. Acknowledge, right away that both major Parties share far too many bedrock assumptions about how the world ought to be and that that causes a great deal of misery here and throughout the world but there are differences between the parties and across the board, wherever differences exist, the Democratic Party is always better, and if there were absolutely no differences, Republicans would not be working so hard and so thoroughly to take away the voting power of you and people like you (young, low income, disabled, queer, black, or whatever the case may be).

 

[IATT]

 

[frink85]

Biden ads front page on YouTube post debate

 

[kdawg]

I’ve found a training video I’m told Biden will be studying for next time.

 

[tay1]

About an hour in and Joe let him get under his skin too easily.

Also it’s really not hard to have a system set up you can cut mics off when they’re not supposed to speak. I feel like they wanted this **** show to happen for ratings

 

[Armada]

anyone and I mean anyone going “but he said sure he did condemn them” is at worst dumb as rocks and gullible or at best being intentionally obtuse. This man said “sure” in response to being asked if he would condemn white supremacists and militia groups. FOH acting like that’s an appropriate answer. If your spouse cheated on you and you say “we can stay together if you never hurt me like that again promise you’ll never do that again and admit you where wrong” and their response is “sure” is that what you wanna hear be honest? You’re lying if you say it is you know you don’t wanna hear that ****. If you’re a business owner and someone stole from your workplace and you feeling generous wanna give them a second chance and you say “hey listen just don’t ever do that again promise me you won’t” and they say “sure” you really gonna sit there and pretend like that’s a good enough answer? That’s not a good enough answer for serious **** and you woudlnt accept that in your personal life so FOH accepting that for the president of the country when asked to condemn white supremacy

Also Trump turned what was supposed to be a condemnation into a defense

“sure I’m prepared to do it...(saying you’re prepared to do something is not actually doing it especially when you follow with this) but I would say almost everything is from the left wing not the right wing” blatantly deflecting blame from white supremacist groups and militias to put it on the left wing essentially defending them claiming they aren’t the ones really causing trouble anyway. “I’m willing to do anything I want to see peace” again saying you’re willing to do sowmtning is not and never has been the same as actually doing it which he never did in that statement.

Then was given one more chance to condemn by the moderator after the moderator recognized he was essentially saying “sure I would but I don’t need to cause they aren’t the ones causing problems” he’s given a specific group to condemn and instead of this time doing what he claimed twice previously he was so willing to do he goes “stand back and stand by, but I’ll tell you what somebody’s got to do something about ANTIFA and the left”
....

again if anyone watched that exchange and thought he condemned them cause he said “sure” is either a straight stupid trump shill that takes anything he says or intentionally being obtuse and purposefully ignoring everything he said after that

 

[ccastro02]

Watched the 1st 30mins of it last night. Very brutal to watch.

 

[dwalk31]

anyone and I mean anyone going “but he said sure he did condemn them” is at worst dumb as rocks and gullible or at best being intentionally obtuse. This man said “sure” in response to being asked if he would condemn white supremacists and militia groups. FOH acting like that’s an appropriate answer. If your spouse cheated on you and you say “we can stay together if you never hurt me like that again promise you’ll never do that again and admit you where wrong” and their response is “sure” is that what you wanna hear be honest? You’re lying if you say it is you know you don’t wanna hear that ****. If you’re a business owner and someone stole from your workplace and you feeling generous wanna give them a second chance and you say “hey listen just don’t ever do that again promise me you won’t” and they say “sure” you really gonna sit there and pretend like that’s a good enough answer? That’s not a good enough answer for serious **** and you woudlnt accept that in your personal life so FOH accepting that for the president of the country when asked to condemn white supremacy

Also Trump turned what was supposed to be a condemnation into a defense

“sure I’m prepared to do it...(saying you’re prepared to do something is not actually doing it especially when you follow with this) but I would say almost everything is from the left wing not the right wing” blatantly deflecting blame from white supremacist groups and militias to put it on the left wing essentially defending them claiming they aren’t the ones really causing trouble anyway. “I’m willing to do anything I want to see peace” again saying you’re willing to do sowmtning is not and never has been the same as actually doing it which he never did in that statement.

Then was given one more chance to condemn by the moderator after the moderator recognized he was essentially saying “sure I would but I don’t need to cause they aren’t the ones causing problems” he’s given a specific group to condemn and instead of this time doing what he claimed twice previously he was so willing to do he goes “stand back and stand by, but I’ll tell you what somebody’s got to do something about ANTIFA and the left”
....

again if anyone watched that exchange and thought he condemned them cause he said “sure” is either a straight stupid trump shill that takes anything he says or intentionally being obtuse and purposefully ignoring everything he said after that

I thought that he said “sure.” Thanks for posting that transcript, I think it is helpful to understand the exchange.

I think a fair reading of the exchange is that he agreed to denounce white supremacy by saying “sure.” And CW asked if he was willing to ask them to “stand down.” To show that he had no issue doing it he asked what group do you want me to denounce? Biden said proud boys. And he said okay Proud boys and in an attempt to say stand down (as CW said) he mistakenly said “stand back and stand by” in an attempt to use the exact words CW said earlier.

Obviously what he actually said is problematic. But I think that is a fair reading. Especially considering the exchange live. The fact that he has continuously condemned white supremacy and recently wrote an EO on the KKK is also telling.

Hopefully he will come out and clarify his stance. If he was intentionally suggesting that the Proud Boys should prepare for battle that is indefensible and I would not be able to continue to support him—period.

But I think the reading I described above is likely what happened based on the transcript.

 

[Armada]

How much more sugar you gonna coat on what he said?

 

[dwalk31]

How much more sugar you gonna coat on what he said?

I admit that’s giving him the benefit of the doubt. But do you at least follow that reading of it?

 

[wavycrocket]

I thought that he said “sure.” Thanks for posting that transcript, I think it is helpful to understand the exchange.

I think a fair reading of the exchange is that he agreed to denounce white supremacy by saying “sure.” And CW asked if he was willing to ask them to “stand down.” To show that he had no issue doing it he asked what group do you want me to denounce? Biden said proud boys. And he said okay Proud boys and in an attempt to say stand down (as CW said) he mistakenly said “stand back and stand by” in an attempt to use the exact words CW said earlier.

Obviously what he actually said is problematic. But I think that is a fair reading. Especially considering the exchange live. The fact that he has continuously condemned white supremacy and recently wrote an EO on the KKK is also telling.

Hopefully he will come out and clarify his stance. If he was intentionally suggesting that the Proud Boys should prepare for battle that is indefensible and I would not be able to continue to support him—period.

But I think the reading I described above is likely what happened based on the transcript.

The way you attempt to give cover to racist is sick. At every damn turn.

 

[Armada]

I admit that’s giving him the benefit of the doubt. But do you at least follow that reading of it?

I follow that reading but for it to makes sense is to ignore context of what preceded the proud boys statements and who trump has shown himself to be time and time again when confronted about this. Its trying way to hard to give a man the benefit of the doubt he has shown time and time again he doesn’t deserve that. He’s shown you countless times who he is. Don’t be like trump who thinks admitting error is weakness. It’s not weakness it’s growth and takes strength. You can admit you where wrong about him one day you will.

 

[$tatus $ymbol]

I thought that he said “sure.” Thanks for posting that transcript, I think it is helpful to understand the exchange.

I think a fair reading of the exchange is that he agreed to denounce white supremacy by saying “sure.” And CW asked if he was willing to ask them to “stand down.” To show that he had no issue doing it he asked what group do you want me to denounce? Biden said proud boys. And he said okay Proud boys and in an attempt to say stand down (as CW said) he mistakenly said “stand back and stand by” in an attempt to use the exact words CW said earlier.

Obviously what he actually said is problematic. But I think that is a fair reading. Especially considering the exchange live. The fact that he has continuously condemned white supremacy and recently wrote an EO on the KKK is also telling.

Hopefully he will come out and clarify his stance. If he was intentionally suggesting that the Proud Boys should prepare for battle that is indefensible and I would not be able to continue to support him—period.

But I think the reading I described above is likely what happened based on the transcript.

 

[had pants]

 

[had pants]

 

[dwalk31]

I follow that reading but for it to makes sense is to ignore context of what preceded the proud boys statements and who trump has shown himself to be time and time again when confronted about this. Its trying way to hard to give a man the benefit of the doubt he has shown time and time again he doesn’t deserve that. He’s shown you countless times who he is. Don’t be like trump who thinks admitting error is weakness. It’s not weakness it’s growth and takes strength. You can admit you where wrong about him one day you will.

I have no issue admitting error that’s why I said if he was intending to tell the Proud Boys to prepare for battle, then I can no longer support him—period.

I just think that the reading I posted makes more sense considering he said “sure” asked who they wanted to denounce and then seemingly tried to use words to align with what CW said.

That taken with the fact that he’s repeatedly publicly denounced white supremacy colors my view. But again, if he was really intending to tell the Proud Boys to “stand by” (like be prepared for battle) I can’t continue my support.

 

[had pants]

 

[wavycrocket]

 

[had pants]

 

[had pants]

 

[Armada]

I have no issue admitting error that’s why I said if he was intending to tell the Proud Boys to prepare for battle, then I can no longer support him—period.

I just think that the reading I posted makes more sense considering he said “sure” asked who they wanted to denounce and then seemingly tried to use words to align with what CW said.

That taken with the fact that he’s repeatedly publicly denounced white supremacy colors my view. But again, if he was really intending to tell the Proud Boys to “stand by” (like be prepared for battle) I can’t continue my support.

see In the bolded and highlighted that’s what I’m talking about you’re intentionally ignoring the context in between that. He did not go sure then asked who, there was a entire other exchange before that. he said sure then said BUT it’s the left causing all the trouble anyway but sure. You can’t ignore that that’a key context you should be smart enough to know he’s essentially saying sure I would but why would I need to if the left are causing all the trouble. This Is what I mean you giving him a benefit of the doubt he doesn’t deserve and he showed why literally in what he said the statemwnr before the proud boys statement. If he’s already insinuating he doesn’t think there’s anything wrong there (cause again you know that’s what that statement means you’re smart enough to know that’s) and it’s all the left you really gonna act like him then saying soon after that stand back stand by but I tell you what someone’s gotta do something about the left, the left he’s putting all the blame on after avoiding blaming the proud boys isn’t it he isn’t directing what he thinks is necessary to handle the left he says is causing all the trouble? You’re looking at his statements in pieces instead of looking the whole picture of his statements in that answer