- Jul 20, 2009
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-I don't need a reminder of how dangerous the 2008 GOP was, I was on NT at the time saying the same thing.
But 2008 was different than 2016.McCain and GOP of 2008 were dangerous, but not as dangerous of than today's GOP. There were still dangerous ghouls animated by crony capitalism, imperialism, and white supremacy, but they have clearly doubled and tripled down on their worst impulses since then. Also, it was clear the next president was going to face a Democratic Congress, voting for McCain knowing the Reid and Pelosi would be a check on him is different than voting for Trump and him having Ryan and McConnell to assist him.
It is quite interesting now the 2008 GOP is so horrible. Because in previous years, you made numerous arguments trying to equate Obama to the GOP of that Era in some ways, a comparison I had to point out routinely were ridiculous. So sorry I am not buying it, people have a point that the Sanders-Trump voters' actions were viler than Clinton-McCain. No one is excusing their behavior or whitewashing 2008 GOP; they are just adding nuance to the handwave about primary-to-general voters.
Another thing, Clinton's 2008 base was not like her 2016 base. In fact, her 2008 base looked more like Sanders's 2016 base in one key area. White regressive Democratic voters favored Hillary in 2008, just like they did Sanders in 2016.
-Yeah, find, some liberals have been too soft on Bush, I agree. But by the same token, a ton of liberals took issue with Ellen Degeneres and Michelle Obama; the Atlantic is a moderate right magazine with some liberal writers. I see mostly their conservative writers making the soft on Bush arguments. All over other liberal media outlets, Bush is still being ridiculed. Michelle Obama's friendship with Bush doesn't rehab his image. Liberals have not been out there trying to systematically rewrite Bush's history, or trying to downplay the Iraq War. At most, they are saying the ways Trump is worse than Bush in certain areas. I still ******* hate Bush, but the liberal left is a large diverse group of people. You cherry-pick a few bad actors and pain the entire coalition that way.
-Regarding the "appeal of Republican suburban" voters, they have to do that because that is the only way they can get power. The system is seriously rigged against them from all angles:
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...n-electoral-college-senate-popular-vote-trump
Yes, I find it frustrating too. However, that is the sad reality of the situation. Our electoral system, and GOP cheating, the median voter so far to the right that any hopes the Dems have of gaining power is to win some right-leaning voters in the suburbs; while moving left on aggregate as a party. I am sure at this point you want to come with some argument at is along the lines of "just be more like Bernie" and they can win, welp let's look at the Midterms...
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...-trump-2020-nomination-popular-socialism.html
And let me point out the hypocrisy of this criticism:
And again, coming from you and other Bernie supporters, this objection kinda makes me chuckle. Your whole shtick is forming a multicultural workers coalition that includes the white working class with regressive social views as a large part of it. You guys want marginalized groups to build an alliance with people that have been hostile to our very existence. Where was the harsh rebuke for Bernie regarding his excusing of white racist beyond something along the lines of "that's a bad look"? He did this **** as early as December, excusing white southern voters of all people, and it was mostly crickets from the Bernie left. You want black people to vote for a man that as early as 2015 thought black people in urban areas lack the moral hygiene of white Vermonters to handle guns properly; and thought incarceration rates for African Americans was higher because we commit more crimes. And look at the Rogan **** this week.
The Sanders coalition is all about giving problematic people a second chance and forming an alliance with them, just like most left wing politics. I agree that Bush is low life beyond rehab, but you are taking issues with the Dems for trying a strategy that your side is doing their own remix of.
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