***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[rexanglorum]

I was very upset to the see the FILTHY halftime show. This is supposed to be a family event but we have these ridiculous FOREIGN (alien) women gyrating on our screens. Were they even 21 years old? And how DISGUSTING to bring a foreign flag (Porto Rico) onto the stage at an AMERICAN event.

That said, asking for a friend -- why do our wives from the Honkerburger not look like these two women? Are we doing something wrong?

The ISIS-MS13 girl then the Puerto Rican girl befouling our AMERICAN event left me horny and angry. I now know how Ben Garrison feels when he sees AOC’s economically illiterate ankles.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

To be fair, when I was a lil kid living in St. Lucia, I didn't know there were two Kansas Cities.

UPN schooled me doe...

Are you smarter than Donald Trump?

 

[aepps20]

Rusty was always the smartest of Big Mama's grand kids. He got me into this conservative life. whywesteppin was the HANDSOME grand kid and I was the future thinking grand kid. No doubt RustyShackleford is as smart as our PRESIDENT ELECT but he needs to smarten up and stop spewing liberal conjecture and innuendo

 

[AEA18]

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

When I first started coming in this thread I was kinda surprised how jovial it was given the subject matter. I remember saying how it seemed like everyone was laughing to keep from crying. I'm sure everyone has seen Dave chappelle's bit by now about the book Pimp by iceberg slim. I read that book in high school. Another classic line from that book is that a pimp loves it when his hos laugh because it means they're still asleep.

We keep laughing at this guy who everyone thinks is an idiot when we're the ones getting played. So who's really the idiot? We need to start thinking about what's gonna happen when, not if, he gets 're-elected'. Because you're a ******* idiot if you think your vote is actually going to make a difference.

 

[whywesteppin]

I'm still trying to make sense of the Trump campaign ad yesterday that cited "strongest economic growth in nearly a decade" as a reason to vote for Trump... since a decade ago was when Obummer was president.

 

[Armada]

Will be interesting to see how things unfold

 

[RustyShackleford]

Are you smarter than Donald Trump?

I don't know.

Why?

 

[aepps20]

I'm still trying to make sense of the Trump campaign ad yesterday that cited "strongest economic growth in nearly a decade" as a reason to vote for Trump... since a decade ago was when Obummer was president.

The trend lines are synonymous with political views which are equidistant to the liberal conjecture when the plane, trains and automobiles vroom. vroom, vrooooooooom. #TRUMP2020

 

[spiceman80]

He never misses an opportunity to showcase his stupidity.

I just hope he doesn't tweet out a map with Kansas City in sharpie in Kansas

To be fair, when I was a lil kid living in St. Lucia, I didn't know there were two Kansas Cities.

UPN schooled me doe...

There is no comparison here, he's the President of the US. An american citizen in his 70s who is a self proclaimed stable genius with a big Abrain. There is no excuse for his level of stupidity.

You were a kid in another country

 

[RustyShackleford]

He never misses an opportunity to showcase his stupidity.

I just hope he doesn't tweet out a map with Kansas City in sharpie in Kansas


There is no comparison here, he's the President of the US. An american citizen in his 70s who is a self proclaimed stable genius with a big Abrain. There is no excuse for his level of stupidity.

You were a kid in another country

Yeah I agree.

I just more joking. I saw an opening to make a Malcolm and Eddie reference and I knew I had to take it. Could be another couple decades before I get another chance. Now I am waiting for an opening to bring up "Homeboys in Outter Space".

 

[handullz]

The Republican Party is quite literally stealing the country for generations and facilitating white supremacy, but you got a black man in here mad at Dems for doing their constitutional duty. Why are there so many idiots on this timeline?

name calling? Take the emotion out of it, bruh.

What does me being black have to do with Dems pump faking the whole country into thinking this is anything more than political theater?

Y’all ****** Think just because somebody isn’t screaming to impeach trump he’s a sycophantic fan.

Y’all stay looking goofy af after getting handed L after L with trump, trying to take him down the wrong way. No worries, I used to be the same way.

Thinking “this is what’s going to take him down” then I realized there’s an entire other side that loves this ***** and aren’t hearing any of the truths on Trump.

the only way to get him out is to vote him out with an unapologetically nationalistic campaign. It’s winning ALL OVER THE globe because people are tired of ******** from the elites...

Trump tapped into it and won.

The people that do this for a living, some of whom have been doing this longer than you or I have been alive and have made lots of money doing this, probably know more about political strategy than someone on a sneaker board with a lil b avy. And I say this as someone on a sneaker board who used to have a lil b avy.

famb, you a much better poster than to use the “well, it’s a sneakerboard so were Not qualified to criticize” retort. You know there are all types of doctors, lawyers, bankers, business owners and other well rounded, cerebral people running around here with ridiculous avys.

but we can’t criticize people because they make money for it? People talking mountains of **** about shanahan this morning, but they should stop b/c he gets paid for it?

these same dem operatives that though Hillary had the 2016 election in the bag? The sameones that lost 1,000 seats after Obeezy was elected? These SAME operatives that think Joe Biden is a viable option? The same operatives that told Liz Warren to fabricate a story onBernie? The same operatives that completely ignore the candidate that’s polling SECOND in the face?

And these strategists...

these same dem operatives that thought Hillary had the 2016 election in the bag? the same ones that lost to the worst political candidate in modern history? The sameones that lost 1,000 seats after Obeezy was elected? These SAME operatives that think Joe Biden is a viable option? The same operatives that told Liz Warren to fabricate a story on Bernie? The same ones that pressed the mueller flop, the comey flopcontinues to make excuses for Hillary almost half a decade later, and keep getting handed Ls?

 

[-Red-]

-I don't need a reminder of how dangerous the 2008 GOP was, I was on NT at the time saying the same thing. But 2008 was different than 2016.

McCain was, and GOP of 2008 were dangerous, but not as dangerous of than the modern GOP. There were still dangerous ghouls animated by crony capitalism, imperialism, and white supremacy, but they have clearly doubled and tripled down on their worst impulses since then. Also, it was clear the next president was going to face a Democratic Congress, voting for McCain knowing the Reid and Pelosi would be a check on him is different than voting for Trump and him having Ryan and McConnell to assist him.

It is quite interesting now the 2008 GOP is so horrible. Because in previous years, you made numerous arguments trying to equate Obama to the GOP of that Era in some ways, a comparison I had to point out routinely were ridiculous. So sorry I am not buying it, people have a point that the Sanders-Trump voters' actions were viler than Clinton-McCain. No one is excusing their behavior or whitewashing 2008 GOP; they are just adding nuance to the handwave about primary-to-general voters.

Another thing, Clinton's 2008 base was not like her 2016 base. In fact, her 2008 base looked more like Sanders's 2016 base in one key area. White regressive Democratic voters favored Hillary in 2008, just like they did Sanders in 2016.

-Yeah, find, some liberals have been too soft on Bush, I agree. But by the same token, a ton of liberals took issue with Ellen Degeneres and Michelle Obama; the Atlantic is a moderate right magazine with some liberal writers. I see mostly their conservative writers making the soft on Bush arguments. All over other liberal media outlets, Bush is still being ridiculed. Michelle Obama's friendship with Bush doesn't rehab his image. Liberals have not been out there trying to systematically rewrite Bush's history, or trying to downplay the Iraq War. At most, they are saying the ways Trump is worse than Bush in certain areas. I still ****ing hate Bush, but the liberal left is a large diverse group of people. You cherry-pick a few bad actors and pain the entire coalition that way.

-Regarding the "appeal of Republican suburban" voters, they have to do that because that is the only way they can get power. The system is seriously rigged against them from all angles:

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...n-electoral-college-senate-popular-vote-trump

Yes, I find it frustrating too. However, that is the sad reality of the situation. Our electoral system, and GOP cheating, the median voter so far to the right that any hopes the Dems have of gaining power is to win some right-leaning voters in the suburbs; while moving left on aggregate as a party. I am sure at this point you want to come with some argument at is along the lines of "just be more like Bernie" and they can win, welp let's look at the Midterms...

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020...-trump-2020-nomination-popular-socialism.html

https://theweek.com/articles/750552/big-money-still-strangling-democrats

And let me point out the hypocrisy of this criticism:

And again, coming from you and other Bernie supporters, this objection kinda makes me chuckle. Your whole shtick is forming a multicultural workers coalition that includes the white working class with regressive social views as a large part of it. You guys want marginalized groups to build an alliance with people that have been hostile to our very existence. Where was the harsh rebuke for Bernie regarding his excusing of white racist beyond something along the lines of "that's a bad look"? He did this **** as early as December, excusing white southern voters of all people, and it was mostly crickets from the Bernie left. You want black people to vote for a man that as early as 2015 thought black people in urban areas lack the moral hygiene of white Vermonters to handle guns properly; and thought incarceration rates for African Americans was higher because we commit more crimes. Look at the Rogan **** this week.

The Sanders coalition is all about giving problematic people a second chance and forming an alliance with them, just like most left wing politics. I agree that Bush is low life beyond rehab, but you are taking issues with the Dems for trying a strategy that your side is doing their own remix of.

In response to your main point that the typical Democratic moderate-swing-voter strategy and Bernie's working-class-centered strategy both involve cobbling together political coalitions that inevitably include folks with some views that most of us in here would find problematic—I agree completely. But there is a huge difference in these two dynamics that seems to me almost impossible to overstate.

In the case of the Democratic moderate-swing-voter strategy this logic has been used for decades now to justify watered-down, “centrist”-friendly political programs as a means of appealing to those “moderate” voters. I mean, this has even been a big part of the discourse in here regarding 2020 over the last week or so.

On the other hand, Bernie's campaign is decidedly not altering its political program to attract voters who may have problematic views on whatever (whether race, gender, LGBTQ, etc.). Indeed, it is the exact opposite—Bernie believes that his political vision is compelling enough and the urgency that people feel in their daily lives is great enough that he doesn't have to water anything down or compromise for the sake of political expediency. Now, that may or may not happen—we will see. But these are two entirely different dynamics in my eyes.

 

[Belgium]

Refusing to even pursue some form of accountability because the other side won't care seems rather backwards. It's no different from Barr said about the Mueller investigation. His view is that Mueller should've never investigated Trump in the first place because they operated under the view that they couldn't indict him no matter what.

 

[dacomeup]

Y’all stay looking goofy af after getting handed L after L with trump, trying to take him down the wrong way. No worries, I used to be the same way.

There's a whole part about elected officials upholding the Constitution that you see to continually ignore. I think that's the issue. It's not a little game of who is getting Ls. Whether you like it or not, these actions by the Dem at very minimum help to curtail some of the ridiculous behaviors seen by this administration. Many behaviors which the framers themselves couldn't have even begun to imagine. It's not a tit for tat game of Ls for the Libbies and Ws for Trump, we have an actual democracy and Constitution to uphold here, that will (hopefully) still be here once Trump is long gone.

 

[-Red-]

At this point all I can ask is this: left-leaning white people—please vote for whomever the Democratic nominee is.

Us black and brown folk know that should Trump win again, that you probably won’t be affected by another 4 years of this administration. We get it. The flip side is that we will be affected by it. Maybe not personally, but somewhere and at sometime, a minority will feel the impact of having a raging bigot at the helm of our country. The same could be said for other minorities, whether that be LGBTQ or non-Christian, or simply just not white. These are facts.

If you say “black lives matter”, do us a solid and vote for the candidate who will most reflect that thinking in their policies. If you really care about the future of our planet (ya know, the one your kid’s kids will have to deal with), do us all a favor and vote for the candidate who will take action to protect our planet. If you truly care about family separation at the border, please vote for the candidate who will put an end to that abhorrent policy.

Any other action on your part clearly signals that you don’t really care about the things you champion. Which I guess wouldn’t be a shocker, but please do the right thing. Think about it being bigger than your white life, please.

Thanks.

I agree with your overall message that folks need to support whoever the eventual Democratic nominee is against Trump for all the reasons you listed and countless others.

But the assumption that white folks won't be impacted negatively by another Trump term is off-base—anyone that's not a member of the 1% will be impacted negatively by another Trump term. And the assumption that it's only white folks we need to convince to vote Trump out of office is off-base as well. How many millions of black and brown folks didn't vote in 2016 (or even voted for Trump) and may not vote in 2020? We need to do our best to convince all of these folks to vote Trump out.

In all cases, this seems to me like it will be easier to accomplish with a Democratic candidate with a transformative political program and not just a "let's go back to the not-so-terrible Obama days" message, but I suppose we will see depending on how things play out.

 

[-Red-]

"Don't do what you think is right because it might not have the effect or impact that you want."

I can't imagine living my life that way.

To be fair, this was the debate within the Democratic Party for months before they finally initiative impeachment proceedings. It was also a debate in here with people cautioning that impeachment could be a political mistake for the Dems and arguing that they were justified in not initiating impeachment on those grounds.

 

[spiceman80]

Yeah I agree.

I just more joking. I saw an opening to make a Malcolm and Eddie reference and I knew I had to take it. Could be another couple decades before I get another chance. Now I am waiting for an opening to bring up "Homeboys in Outter Space".

You were serious about UPN I see

 

[Belgium]

He's still clinging onto the hostages' "no pressure" remarks even as GOP Senators admit the House proved their case.

 

[Belgium]

To be fair, this was the debate within the Democratic Party for months before they finally initiative impeachment proceedings. It was also a debate in here with people cautioning that impeachment could be a political mistake for the Dems and arguing that they were justified in not initiating impeachment on those grounds.

I think the main argument was that the Mueller report was far too complex for voters to follow along, and Mueller's testimony certainly didn't help. By contrast, the Ukraine scheme was very simple to understand and argue.
I would argue the Mueller report really wasn't that complicated but it is a 448 page report and most people aren't going to read that, nor fully grasp it if they do end up reading it.

In actual prosecutions, it's not unusual for prosecutors to leave out overly complex charges in favor of lesser charges that are easier to understand for the jury, thereby increasing the odds of conviction.

 

[RustyShackleford]

In response to your main point that the typical Democratic moderate-swing-voter strategy and Bernie's working-class-centered strategy both involve cobbling together political coalitions that inevitably include folks with some views that most of us in here would find problematic—I agree completely. But there is a huge difference in these two dynamics that seems to me almost impossible to overstate.

In the case of the Democratic moderate-swing-voter strategy this logic has been used for decades now to justify watered-down, “centrist”-friendly political programs as a means of appealing to those “moderate” voters. I mean, this has even been a big part of the discourse in here regarding 2020 over the last week or so.

On the other hand, Bernie's campaign is decidedly not altering its political program to attract voters who may have problematic views on whatever (whether race, gender, LGBTQ, etc.). Indeed, it is the exact opposite—Bernie believes that his political vision is compelling enough and the urgency that people feel in their daily lives is great enough that he doesn't have to water anything down or compromise for the sake of political expediency. Now, that may or may not happen—we will see. But these are two entirely different dynamics in my eyes.

Yeah, I don't agree.

The Democratic Party as a whole has been moving more left since the start of last decade and took a harder turn left after 2012.

Watered down policy is the reality of getting things passed because the marginal Senator or Rep. has so much power.

The Dems as a party are not systemically watering down their platforms just to appeal to those center right voters. They run candidates that are to the right of the Party's center.

And Bernie's support of NIMBY candidates and anti-choice candidates like Heath Mello. And leftist outlets signal boosted dudes like Richard Ojeda. Hell Hillary ran left on Bernie on some issues and Bernie and to get woke real quick to fall more inline with other liberal Dems on issues like immigration, guns, and criminal justice reform.

Also, his protectionist views on trade are hardly what I could call progressive. However they are a mayor part of his pitch to Midwestern white people.

So yeah, I think they (the Democratic Party and the Sanders Movement) are much more a like than your characterization. Both have been moving left, both support candidates that go against part of their platform, both use problematic rhetoric to appeal to white voters.

Just seems that people like you and Rex find the Dems moves more offensive than Bernie's. Which is fine, but I don't see it that way.

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

I don't know.

Why?

You're a very intelligent guy. It might not always seem like it but I have a lot of respect for you. With that said, you're too smart to be this dumb. You really think there's a chance in hell that he's not re-elected? You really think this is a democracy we live in?

 

[-Red-]

name calling? Take the emotion out of it, bruh.

What does me being black have to do with Dems pump faking the whole country into thinking this is anything more than political theater?

Y’all ****** Think just because somebody isn’t screaming to impeach trump he’s a sycophantic fan.

Y’all stay looking goofy af after getting handed L after L with trump, trying to take him down the wrong way. No worries, I used to be the same way.

Thinking “this is what’s going to take him down” then I realized there’s an entire other side that loves this ***** and aren’t hearing any of the truths on Trump.

the only way to get him out is to vote him out with an unapologetically nationalistic campaign. It’s winning ALL OVER THE globe because people are tired of bull**** from the elites...

Trump tapped into it and won.




famb, you a much better poster than to use the “well, it’s a sneakerboard so were Not qualified to criticize” retort. You know there are all types of doctors, lawyers, bankers, business owners and other well rounded, cerebral people running around here with ridiculous avys.

but we can’t criticize people because they make money for it? People talking mountains of **** about shanahan this morning, but they should stop b/c he gets paid for it?

these same dem operatives that though Hillary had the 2016 election in the bag? The sameones that lost 1,000 seats after Obeezy was elected? These SAME operatives that think Joe Biden is a viable option? The same operatives that told Liz Warren to fabricate a story onBernie? The same operatives that completely ignore the candidate that’s polling SECOND in the face?

And these strategists...

these same dem operatives that thought Hillary had the 2016 election in the bag? the same ones that lost to the worst political candidate in modern history? The sameones that lost 1,000 seats after Obeezy was elected? These SAME operatives that think Joe Biden is a viable option? The same operatives that told Liz Warren to fabricate a story on Bernie? The same ones that pressed the mueller flop, the comey flopcontinues to make excuses for Hillary almost half a decade later, and keep getting handed Ls?

I know where you're coming from, but I think the Dems had no choice but to pursue impeachment. Trump has been off the ******* rails since before he was even elected. I think the Dems had an obligation to pursue impeachment because it was warranted, even if it was politically problematic (that could be debated for sure).

But my issue—and my sense is one of your issues—is that for many Dems and many liberals, they really believed that the Mueller investigation and impeachment were going to get Trump out of the paint. Or, at the very least, distracted them entirely from articulating a political program that would transform people's lives in any meaningful way. Lots of Dems are more enamored and concerned with procedure than they are with substantive politics. And this I find to be utterly disgusting and infuriating.

 

[T Lo Sweater]

To be fair, when I was a lil kid living in St. Lucia, I didn't know there were two Kansas Cities.

UPN schooled me doe...

I only know from the World Series of dice

“grits n gravy. Kansas City, Missouri”

 

[RustyShackleford]

You're a very intelligent guy. It might not always seem like it but I have a lot of respect for you. With that said, you're too smart to be this dumb. You really think there's a chance in hell that he's not re-elected? You really think this is a democracy we live in?

I already said that all thing considered he has a very good chance of being reelected. I have said numerous times that America's democracy is broken, and that is why the modern GOP can gain so much power.

I spend a lot of time in my real life engaged in local politics. Between us my girl and I have spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to get people registered, and get progressives win on the local and state level to build a firewall to people like Trump.

It might seem like it but I just don't sit on NT cracking jokes and thinking everything is wavy with just me voting, but I don't. This is serious, dead serious, people's lives are on the line with this election. So on the flip side I am just not gonna turn pessimistic and think things are helpless. I am gonna fight and claw and do whatever I can to make a positive outcome more likely.

If the Dems lose, it would be disasterous, and I will be very upset. But then I will be back at it trying to do what beyond just feeling dread about what is happening. I am only 33, I have no business giving up and thinking things are completely hopeless. Yes I know it is becoming progressively harder for progress to be made, and thinking of that fact is disheartening. But the move it to push harder, not just let the cruel, corrupt, bigots have it.