***Official Political Discussion Thread***

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/02/iowa-2020-election-security-110126
2020’s first election security test: Iowa
The nation’s first caucuses Monday may be almost as low-tech as it gets, but it still faces threats from hackers.
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There's a whole part about elected officials upholding the Constitution that you see to continually ignore. I think that's the issue. It's not a little game of who is getting Ls. Whether you like it or not, these actions by the Dem at very minimum help to curtail some of the ridiculous behaviors seen by this administration. Many behaviors which the framers themselves couldn't have even begun to imagine. It's not a tit for tat game of Ls for the Libbies and Ws for Trump, we have an actual democracy and Constitution to uphold here, that will (hopefully) still be here once Trump is long gone.

So why now? Why do it in the last year of his presidency?

why not do it for the litany of other things they can prove without hearsay and circumstantial evidence?
 
For people that think the Dems mostly been about impeachment...

House Democrats have passed nearly 400 bills. Trump and Republicans are ignoring them.
https://www.vox.com/2019/11/29/20977735/how-many-bills-passed-house-democrats-trump

Pelosi's whole thing since taking back power was to show the country they can govern and pass things that will make a positive change. The media just doesn't cover the fact Mitch McConnell kills everything, because that goes against the "both sides" narrative they like to push.
 
So why now? Why do it in the last year of his presidency?

why not do it for the litany of other things they can prove without hearsay and circumstantial evidence?
Also the Dems didn't tell Trump to go be corrupt. They are just reacting to his actions.

They did it now because he committed the act in mid 2019.

Regarding the other stuff, Pelosi wanted to hold off on formal impeachment, instead she authorizatied House investigations. Centrist in the party were not on board for impeachment.

Hearsay and circumstantial evidence. My dude, have you actually been following this thing?
 
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Yeah, I don't agree.

The Democratic Party as a whole has been moving more left since the start of last decade and took a harder turn left after 2012.

Watered down policy is the reality of getting things passed because the marginal Senator has so much power.

The Dems as a party are not systemically watering down their platforms just to appeal to those center right voters. They run candidates that are to the right of the Party's center.

And Bernie's support of NIMBY candidates and anti-choice candidates like Heath Mello. And leftist outlets signal boosted dudes like Richard Ojeda. Hell Hillary ran left on Bernie on some issues and Bernie and to get woke real quick to fall more inline with other liberal Dems on issues like immigration, guns, and criminal justice reform.

Also, his protectionist views on trade are hardly what I could call progressive. However they are a mayor part of his pitch to Midwestern white people.

So yeah, I think they (the Democratic Party and the Sanders Movement) are much more a like than your characterization. Both have been moving left, both support candidates that go against part of their platform, both use problematic rhetoric to appeal to white voters.

Just seems that people like you and Rex find the Dems moves more offensive than Bernie's. Which is fine.
Bro you stated in your initial post that Dems absolutely need to appeal to moderate white suburban voters to win. Well, how are they doing this, exactly, if not via their political program? I mean, that has been the "justification" from Democrats for literally decades—that the politicians themselves are much more progressive, but they have to run more to the middle to appeal to the moderate white suburbanites. And people in this very thread have been making these same arguments as recently as the past couple of weeks. You yourself seem to be making this very argument in the post to which I was responding. I guess I'm confused as to the push-back on this seemingly very evident dynamic.

On the flip side, is Bernie Sanders running on an anti-abortion political platform? Is he running on a protectionist trade platform? Is he running on an anti-immigrant platform? Is he running on a NIMBY platform? If he running on a tough-on-crime platform? The answers to those questions are no, no, no, no, and no. Did he in 2016? No. Has he ever run on those issues or has anything approximating those positions constituted anything close to the political program that he has been articulating consistently for decades? No.

Bernie has laid out his political vision quite clearly and invited everyone who is compelled by that vision to support his candidacy and to support one another. He's not changing his political vision to attract "problematic" constituencies. Indeed, if people with some problematic views are compelled to support a political program that would ensure a right to healthcare, living wage employment, high-quality public education, free public higher education, etc. for all, why on earth is that a bad thing? Do you want people to be 100% in alignment on everything before they come under the tent? Because as the article Osh posted in here the other day indicates, then you might as well kick half of all Democratic voters out of the party now. In fact, your own words seem to indicate that you don't want to "give problematic white people a second chance," since you're castigating Bernie's campaign for doing so. Well, what exactly do you propose doing instead? And along those same lines, what do you propose doing about all of the black and brown folks who vote for Democrats who have problematic views on religion, gender, and LGBTQ issues?

So, again, these are not the same things.
 
I already said that all thing considered he has a very good chance of being reelected. I have said numerous times that America's democracy is broken, and that is why the modern GOP can gain so much power.

I spend a lot of time in my real life engaged in local politics. Between us my girl and I have spent tens of thousands of dollars trying to get people registered, and get progressives win on the local and state level to build a firewall to people like Trump.

It might seem like it but I just don't sit on NT cracking jokes and thinking everything is wavy with just me voting, but I don't. This is serious, dead serious, people's lives are on the line with this election. So on the flip side I am just not gonna turn pessimistic and think things are helpless. I am gonna fight and claw and do whatever I can to make a positive outcome more likely.

If the Dems lose, it would be disasterous, and I will be very upset. But then I will be back at it trying to do what beyond just feeling dread about what is happening. I am only 33, I have no business giving up and thinking things are completely hopeless. Yes I know it is becoming progressively harder for progress to be made, and thinking of that fact is disheartening. But the move it to push harder, not just let the cruel, corrupt, bigots have it.
What I'm trying to say is that it's not a matter of chance and the democracy is not broken. It's working exactly as it's designed to. If your intention is to create a positive outcome, you're wasting your time and money getting people registered. There's only one outcome and even if there wasn't it still wouldn't matter which party won, the people would still lose like we always do. There's no such thing as voting. There is no choice.
 
You’re living in denial then. You’re here on a daily basis.......
I am in america as well, so ask people in middle america about how they feel about Black people, immigrants being here every day as well.

I am Black, someone who happens to live in america.
 
I am in america as well, so ask people in middle america about how they feel about Black people, immigrants being here every day as well.

I am Black, someone who happens to live in america.
Who cares about their opinion on what you are? You worry so much about what others think it’s impeding your own growth as a human being and man. You are a nter whether you like it or not that’s a fact not an opinion.
 
Who cares about their opinion on what you are? You worry so much about what others think it’s impeding your own growth as a human being and man. You are a nter whether you like it or not that’s a fact not an opinion.
“If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.”

― Audre Lorde
 
What I'm trying to say is that it's not a matter of chance and the democracy is not broken. It's working exactly as it's designed to. If your intention is to create a positive outcome, you're wasting your time and money getting people registered. There's only one outcome and even if there wasn't it still wouldn't matter which party won, the people would still lose like we always do. There's no such thing as voting. There is no choice.
America's democracy is poorly design from the jump but it has been further broken.

Capping the number of House reps, gerrymandering, and voter suppression has all altered our electoral system for the worst and prevent more positive outcomes. The only way to repair those things are for the left to flood the system and overcome these biases. Then past what it can to build a firewall. Yes it is extremely hard, but it is not the impossible situation you are painting it to be. And if people do nothing, it only gets worst.

Secondly, not all politics are national. I am not getting people register to vote and be engaged just to vote Dem every two or four years. Local politics is extremely important. Right now in Vegas they are trying to criminalize homelessness. Something that disportionately affect minority communities. So yes I give my time and money and plead with people to vote in local elections and show up to community forums because I care about for people, especially my people, not being criminalized for being in economic despair.

Furthermore the judges that sentence black and brown folk to long sentences run in elections, the sheriff's that cover up misconduct, and prosecutors that overcharge people names are on all on ballots. The state Assemblymen and Senators that suppress black people votes, and rob poor communities of funding, names are on the ballot. But yeah, let me let those people have it cause I am too pessimistic to do anything about it.

Do you know that is exactly what the GOP counts on? Conservatives operatives have spelled out over and over that their plan is to jam up the system so nothing gets done and voter apathy to sets in. The bigots and crony capitialist want voter apathy because they flourish in low turnout elections. The more people adopt your worldview on politicial engagement, the more they win.

It is a cycle, where one thing feeds the other.

If you care so much about how broken democracy is, why don't you support plans to rectify the situation? Why not study and advocate for the solutions before giving up?

All are trying to tell me things are hopeless because things don't go the way you want all the time. Sorry but that is a position I can't rock with for many reasons.

My suggestion to you is before you adopt this worldview, at least engage with local politics more.
 
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