***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Respectability politics is something like 95% of black political figures peddle. Obama used it, so does Rev Barber, so did Malcolm, so did MLK, so does Ben Carson, Colin Powell, and Thomas Sowell. The issue is how it is frame and how it is used within the broader context of the message they are trying to convey

Black people are always open to some "we gotta do better talk". Hell some black preachers make their entire surmmons about it. Black activist tell people in communities this too all the time.

But there is a difference with the way black liberals and progressives use them, and black conservatives.

The problem is telling black people that they can achieve social and economic justice strictly by changing their behavior, especially when one of the supossed benefits of the behavioral changes is white people might view you better, and in turn might treat you better. It is the modern day equivalent to saying "if you behave and try real hard to make Massa happy, he might let you sleep in the big house". Yeah maybe in some sense your life has improved, but you still have no agency, and are still under the boot of white supremacy.

Telling someone they should floss, wear sunscreen, and avoid added sugar is cool with me if you also support a system of affordable and accessable healthcare. But when you tell people that **** because only you are willing and support for a crooked healthcare system to persist. Then **** you.

Although I agree with all of this, Sonnie’s message Is so much more nuanced than this. She’s not preaching a “tap dance for massa” message. She’s not saying black people are lazy and that it’s the cause of their issues. She’s saying that black People have to be deliberate with their moves inspite of racism. Which I vibe with completely. What I don’t vibe with is minimizing the impact social issues have on
black peoples existence and that through hyper capitalism and the ideals of “liberty” and conservative values we can solve all of our problems. That’s the very root of her arguments. No dog whistles or throwing shade at black people at all. The problematic parts though come with that hyper capitalism. And that’s when the intellectual dishonestly starts. And the conspiracy theories about a socialist state creep out. I think as black liberals we make the mistake and assume that all black conservatives are the parris denard’s and Stacey dash’s of the world, when that’s not the case. There are black conservatives that explicitly care about uplifting the black community, even though I find a lot of their ideology problematic. But those are the people I feel like we should have more discussions with because they at the very least openly acknowledge the need for a black voice on the conservative side of politics and they do care about the black community. Somewhere in the middle of those kinds of black conservatives and black liberals is the actual voice of black people. We’ve just gotta root out the the problematic ideologies on both ends.

 

[IATT]

"Alembik didn't take a call from The Associated Press on Thursday. Instead, Sean Jackson, chairman of the Black Republicans of South Florida, was handling calls for him.

Jackson said Alembik isn't a racist and that he has a "plethora of black friends.""

 

[RustyShackleford]

Although I agree with all of this, Sonnie’s message Is so much more nuanced than this. She’s not preaching a “tap dance for massa” message. She’s not saying black people are lazy and that it’s the cause of their issues. She’s saying that black People have to be deliberate with their moves inspite of racism. Which I vibe with completely. What I don’t vibe with is minimizing the impact social issues have on
black peoples existence and that through hyper capitalism and the ideals of “liberty” and conservative values we can solve all of our problems. That’s the very root of her arguments. No dog whistles or throwing shade at black people at all. The problematic parts though come with that hyper capitalism. And that’s when the intellectual dishonestly starts. And the conspiracy theories about a socialist state creep out. I think as black liberals we make the mistake and assume that all black conservatives are the parris denard’s and Stacey dash’s of the world, when that’s not the case. There are black conservatives that explicitly care about uplifting the black community, even though I find a lot of their ideology problematic. But those are the people I feel like we should have more discussions with because they at the very least openly acknowledge the need for a black voice on the conservative side of politics and they do care about the black community. Somewhere in the middle of those kinds of black conservatives and black liberals is the actual voice of black people. We’ve just gotta root out the the problematic ideologies on both ends.

First I think we need to acknowledge if there is a spectrum of black conservatives, there is a spectrum of black liberals. Black centrist liberals, and black progressives disagree a lot as well.

The thing is black conservatives of today, even the none Paris Dennard types, are still more right wing economy of the Edward Brooke types of the past.

There is this persistent argument that the policies that black liberals or black progressives advocate for are somehow at odds with the type of self-sufficient, self-reliant society that well-meaning non butter biscuit black conservatives want to install. Black people, white people, no people, in modern times can achieve actual freedom with the essentials of life being taken care off, and some things are best taken cared of by government action. For me to even accept many of black conservatives arguments, I would still have to ignore a large body of evidence saying their strategies would be at best ineffective and at worst counterproductive.

That is where I and you disagree. I don't think there is some middle ground between black liberals (all types) and black conservatives (no matter how well-meaning they are). When you advocate for economic policies that are a) destructive b) ineffective, then why should a compromise be the desired outcome. Yes, both sides have problematic ideologies, but the consequences of those ideologies are not equivalent. The consequences of black people living in a socially democratic American and the consequences of black people living in a neo-liberal capitalist America are not the same. Sure meeting in the center sounds good in theory, but in practice not so much. And I don't think the voice of black people, even when taken on aggregate, is not calling for good compromise. They are calling for justice.

Throughout history, there has been an ideological debate between black progressive and liberals, and black conservatives. And I think looking back at history, even recent history, there is enough evidence to show that one side has been proven have called things better. I think it is a time black conservatives wake up to that, and black liberals are not so quick to compromise.

-Furthermore, as a side note, I am not going to sell out other minority and marginalized groups. And that is always going to be part of the deal with any black conservative. And morally I think it is hypocritical to advocate for justice for my people, yet be willing to compromise it for others. LBGTQ+, trans, immigrants, women, the disabled, etc., all matter too. A world black men escape oppression but other groups remain in it is a morally bankrupt victory I want no parts of, I won't compromise on those terms. Because when I am now an oppressor, and **** being that.

 

[aepps20]

"Alembik didn't take a call from The Associated Press on Thursday. Instead, Sean Jackson, chairman of the Black Republicans of South Florida, was handling calls for him.

Jackson said Alembik isn't a racist and that he has a "plethora of black friends.""

Libs are toast fellas. Trust a person's actions over their words. This man was wrong to use the N word but rappers use it all of the time and Benjamin Franklin Carson vouched for him so nothing but Lib conjecture and innuendo.

 

[rexanglorum]

Respectability politics is something like 95% of black political figures peddle. Obama used it, so does Rev Barber, so did Malcolm, so did MLK, so does Ben Carson, Colin Powell, and Thomas Sowell. The issue is how it is frame and how it is used within the broader context of the message they are trying to convey

Black people are always open to some "we gotta do better talk". Hell some black preachers make their entire surmmons about it. Black activist tell people in communities this too all the time.

But there is a difference with the way black liberals and progressives use them, and black conservatives.

The problem is telling black people that they can achieve social and economic justice strictly by changing their behavior, especially when one of the supossed benefits of the behavioral changes is white people might view you better, and in turn might treat you better. It is the modern day equivalent to saying "if you behave and try real hard to make Massa happy, he might let you sleep in the big house". Yeah maybe in some sense your life has improved, but you still have no agency, and are still under the boot of white supremacy.

Telling someone they should floss, wear sunscreen, and avoid added sugar is cool with me if you also support a system of affordable and accessable healthcare. But when you tell people that **** because only you are willing and support for a crooked healthcare system to persist. Then **** you.

Thomas Sowell’s academic career is wild. Most self hating black folks will cite American Jews and maybe Korean immigrants as examples of why black folks shouldn’t complain and should just hustle more.

Thomas Sowell, however, was no ordinary self hating black man. He travelled the world to find examples of successful minority middle men in his never ending quest o discredit black Americans.

Sure, every group he found was favored by royal or colonial officials which allowed said group to accumulate capital which thus made said group’s experience distinct from that of black Americans.

Thomas Sowell would publish the experiences of state backed minority groups that he found while abroad. The discerning white supremacist back home in the States could say “if the Chinese merchants of Singapore can make money as a numerical minority, why. Any blacks. It must stand that the mongolid brain pan, while inferior to the Caucasian type, is superior relative to negroid type.”

An ordinary white supremacist-world traveler would have stoped right there but Dr. Sowell needed even more examples of minority middlemen who could discredit the claims of systemic oppression of black people back in the States.

So Dr. Sowell pushes into the frozen passes of the Hindu Kush, the professor forded the Ganges river and backed through the jungles of Burma in his never ending quest to find the perfect rags to riches ethnic group whose existence could be weaponized against social justice.

Dr. Sowell you may hate your own people but you do deserve some begrudged respect, I raise a gin and tonic (the most white man’s budeny of drinks) and say “you’re the like Tony Sinclair in that 2007 Rangpur lime commercial, expect you were seeking something far more fabulous; a lost tribe of people who literally can pull them selves up by pulling their own boot straps and who believe that the 1996 welfare act was not punitive enough.”

 

[Belgium]

Foreign allies reportedly also tried to sway Trump. Britain is mentioned but it is unclear why they were involved and which other foreign allies pushed back.

Based on previous reporting it would make sense if Australia (Papadopoulos) and/or the Netherlands (former access to Fancy Bear internal network for several years) were involved.
Could be anyone really if the matters of concern involved intercepted communications.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...8719177250f_story.html?utm_term=.0d91839e8ce3
Trump walks back his plan to declassify Russia probe documents
President Trump on Friday walked back his order earlier this week to declassify information in the ongoing probe into Russian interference in the 2016 election, saying Justice Department officials and others had persuaded him not to do so for the time being.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

First I think we need to acknowledge if there is a spectrum of black conservatives, there is a spectrum of black liberals. Black centrist liberals, and black progressives disagree a lot as well.

The thing is black conservatives of today, even the none Paris Dennard types, are still more right wing economy of the Edward Brooke types of the past.

There is this persistent argument that the policies that black liberals or black progressives advocate for are somehow at odds with the type of self-sufficient, self-reliant society that well-meaning non butter biscuit black conservatives want to install. Black people, white people, no people, in modern times can achieve actual freedom with the essentials of life being taken care off, and some things are best taken cared of by government action. For me to even accept many of black conservatives arguments, I would still have to ignore a large body of evidence saying their strategies would be at best ineffective and at worst counterproductive.

That is where I and you disagree. I don't think there is some middle ground between black liberals (all types) and black conservatives (no matter how well-meaning they are). When you advocate for economic policies that are a) destructive b) ineffective, then why should a compromise be the desired outcome. Yes, both sides have problematic ideologies, but the consequences of those ideologies are not equivalent. The consequences of black people living in a socially democratic American and the consequences of black people living in a neo-liberal capitalist America are not the same. Sure meeting in the center sounds good in theory, but in practice not so much. And I don't think the voice of black people, even when taken on aggregate, is not calling for good compromise. They are calling for justice.

Throughout history, there has been an ideological debate between black progressive and liberals, and black conservatives. And I think looking back at history, even recent history, there is enough evidence to show that one side has been proven have called things better. I think it is a time black conservatives wake up to that, and black liberals are not so quick to compromise.

-Furthermore, as a side note, I am not going to sell out other minority and marginalized groups. And that is always going to be part of the deal with any black conservative. And morally I think it is hypocritical to advocate for justice for my people, yet be willing to compromise it for others. LBGTQ+, trans, immigrants, women, the disabled, etc., all matter too. A world black men escape oppression but other groups remain in it is a morally bankrupt victory I want no parts of, I won't compromise on those terms. Because when I am now an oppressor, and **** being that.

100% agree with all of this. Although to further clarify, I don’t think there is an ideological middle ground per say, I do think the modern day black person is a mixture of ideals of black conservatism and black liberalism, with the bulk of it leaning left. Listening to her I found myself agreeing with some points here and there and then She followed it with a right wing “Democrats want America to be Venezuela” talking points and then lost me. There’s no middle ground with conspiracy theories.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Thomas Sowell’s academic career is wild. Most self hating black folks will cite American Jews and maybe Korean immigrants as examples of why black folks shouldn’t complain and should just hustle more.

Thomas Sowell, however, was no ordinary self hating black man. He travelled the world to find examples of successful minority middle men in his never ending quest o discredit black Americans.

Sure, every group he found was favored by royal or colonial officials which allowed said group to accumulate capital which thus made said group’s experience distinct from that of black Americans.

Thomas Sowell would publish the experiences of state backed minority groups that he found while abroad. The discerning white supremacist back home in the States could say “if the Chinese merchants of Singapore can make money as a numerical minority, why. Any blacks. It must stand that the mongolid brain pan, while inferior to the Caucasian type, is superior relative to negroid type.”

An ordinary white supremacist-world traveler would have stoped right there but Dr. Sowell needed even more examples of minority middlemen who could discredit the claims of systemic oppression of black people back in the States.

So Dr. Sowell pushes into the frozen passes of the Hindu Kush, the professor forded the Ganges river and backed through the jungles of Burma in his never ending quest to find the perfect rags to riches ethnic group whose existence could be weaponized against social justice.

Dr. Sowell you may hate your own people but you do deserve some begrudged respect, I raise a gin and tonic (the most white man’s budeny of drinks) and say “you’re the like Tony Sinclair in that 2007 Rangpur lime commercial, expect you were seeking something far more fabulous; a lost tribe of people who literally can pull them selves up by pulling their own boot straps and who believe that the 1996 welfare act was not punitive enough.”

I have the same opinion of Thomas Sowell as I do Kanye West.

Both are self hating black men that crave white acceptance, demand black admiration, and that happen to be geniuses.

I would be more sympathetic towards Sowell if I found out his antics were a resault of some botched lipo (from an unregulated plastic surgeon in the South Pacific or Latin America of course), which made him an opiod addict, and that he was bi-polar....oh and that Krugman smashed his wife and was dropping hints about it in his Yale lectures.

But alas, none of those things are true so I am just left with hating his guts

 

[RustyShackleford]

100% agree with all of this. Although to further clarify, I don’t think there is an ideological middle ground per say, I do think the modern day black person is a mixture of ideals of black conservatism and black liberalism, with the bulk of it leaning left. Listening to her I found myself agreeing with some points here and there and then She followed it with a right wing “Democrats want America to be Venezuela” talking points and then lost me

I am sympathetic with voters on both sides of the asile which feel their current bundle of beliefs are not represented by either party. That is why I am so big on election reform. Alternative voting methods would be more democratic, would give people a sense that their views can me better represented, and political debates could be less tribal.

I feel that is a healthier way to coalition build too

 

[RustyShackleford]

"Alembik didn't take a call from The Associated Press on Thursday. Instead, Sean Jackson, chairman of the Black Republicans of South Florida, was handling calls for him.

Jackson said Alembik isn't a racist and that he has a "plethora of black friends.""

A plethora of black friends

Though highly offensive, I find black conservatives defense of right wing bigots to be down right hilarious at times.

 

[IATT]

A plethora of black friends

really hope this dude getting paid enough for this

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

I have the same opinion of Thomas Sowell as I do Kanye West.

Both are self hating black men that crave white acceptance, demand black admiration, and that happen to be geniuses.

I would be more sympathetic towards Sowell if I found out his antics were a resault of some botched lipo (from an unregulated plastic surgeon in the South Pacific or Latin America of course), which made him an opiod addict, and that he was bi-polar....oh and that Krugman smashed his wife and we're dropping hints about it in his Yale lectures.

But alas, none of those things are true so I am just left with hating his guts

Sampling beats on a beat machine doesn’t make you a genius. Kanye’s raps are struggle and he has ghost writers and producers. To me musical geniuses are people that can read sheet music and play multiple instruments.

 

[aepps20]

I am systematic with voters on both sides of the asile which feel their current budnle of beliefs are not represented by either party. That is why I am so big on election reform. Alternative voting methods would be more democratic, would give people a sense that their views can me better represented, and political debates could be less tribal.

I feel that is a healthier way to coalition build too

RustyShackleford where was this sympathy when the Honker Burger shutdown. You didn't care and is exactly why we aren't friends anymore. Where was this sympathy when our mutual friend Vicktor A was getting railroaded by the liberal NT justice system? The kicks were in the box famb. Where was this sympathy when Big Mama uninvited me and Betsy Bae from the cookout after you LIED to Uncle Zelle about who I voted for in 2016? Where was this sympathy when our President Elect's private parts were compared with Toad (the worst mario character by the way)?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Sampling beats on a beat machine doesn’t make you a genius. Kanye’s raps are struggle and he has ghost writers and producers. To me musical geniuses are people that can read sheet music and play multiple instruments.

It is genius that he took to the work and art of some many others, repackaged it into his own image, then convincing people across for many income brackets and races that they should care what he has to say.

I am not calling him a genius for just his music, I am calling him a genius because of his finesse.

 

[IATT]

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

It is genius that he took to the work and art of some many others, repackaged it into his own image, then convincing people across for many income brackets and races that they should care what he has to say.

I am not calling him a genius for just his music, I am calling him a genius because of his finesse.

True. He may be a genius when he gets MAGA folk and Black lives matter folk to support him at the same time, it seems like that’s what he’s trying to do right now.

 

[RustyShackleford]

RustyShackleford where was this sympathy when the Honker Burger shutdown. You didn't care and is exactly why we aren't friends anymore. Where was this sympathy when our mutual friend Vicktor A was getting railroaded by the liberal NT justice system? The kicks were in the box famb. Where was this sympathy when Big Mama uninvited me and Betsy Bae from the cookout after you LIED to Uncle Zelle about who I voted for in 2016? Where was this sympathy when our President Elect's private parts were compared with Toad (the worst mario character by the way)?

If you what sympathy from me, you are gonna have to beat Soros' price.

I show up to work everyday rocking a crooked shape up, rocking a shiny blue dress shirt, with a white collar, and a pink tie, to send the world one message...that my morals are for sale.

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

Have you heard the new Dolph Rust?

 

[RustyShackleford]

Have you heard the new Dolph Rust?

Nah not yet

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

Nah not yet

Ish goes. You gotta give it a listen. Do you like Dolph?

 

[RustyShackleford]

aepps20 if you are worried about Viktor A., don't worry, I heard he has landed on his feet

Word is he is the new VP of Supply Chain Management at Rockdeep Logistics.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Ish goes. You gotta give it a listen. Do you like Dolph?

Yeah of course.

I can't all the way trust a dude that don't rock with Dolph.

 

[frink85]

Paging the #metoo folks, please respond

 

[DADDYFATSACKS]

Yeah of course.

I can't all the way trust a dude that don't rock with Dolph.

Why not lol?