***Official Political Discussion Thread***

InTheHallway said:
Completely surprised by the, "O my God, no one gives a flying **** about me anymore, here's a book detailing my ***** lifestyle, including a detail about the president's small penis," angle ... ... ...

I slept with this man because I'm a ***** ... He has a small penis ... Hahahaha ... Solid legacy ...
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Trolling or not, something is wrong with you, man. Please get help.
 
elpablo21 said:

Can't let them Kaleboiz get away with this


tenor.gif

Coalgang......#getthestrap
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What a ******* snowflake.
 
RustyShackleford said:
Is framing of the arguments people in there make are incorrect imo, I have never seen anyone in here have blind faith in American institutions or American democracy.

Think of America as a large house that all groups share. For generations, ethnic minorities have been restrained to the basement, cellar, or crawl space, while the dominant white community got to enjoy the bedroom, living room, kitchen, yard, pool, et.. Civil Rights legislation (past and future) is something that opens up more areas of the house to minority groups. The thing is, some in the white community has a form of counterproductive protest has set the entire house on fire. So now we have a choice, we can just focus on the fact that access to other parts of the house that were blocked off for so long (which is a valid complaint), or focus on the bigger picture that we also have to put out the fire as well.

Because it is gonna burn everyone. This is one of the core beliefs MLK had toward the end of this life. That for better or worst we all in this American experiment together. That the fight for justice must expand beyond demanding access but caring about what you are getting access to.

Getting equal treated means little if everyone is still getting treated like ****. Because at that point you are just trading one bad situation for another.

I come from a country with a majority of black people in the West Indies, the poster that posted the articles comes from a country with the majority of black people in Africa. And we can both attest to the fact that sitting back and watching your institution crumble, elections less democratic, and strong men take hold does no one any favors. That political and socioeconomic systems can still fail black folk even in the absence of bigots and white supremacist.

If everyone in America stopped being racist tomorrow, like if we could really wish it into existence, our economy would still drive inequality, our healthcare system would still be trash, our infrastructure would still be in shambles, and our elections would still not be representative enough.

It is not really about going back to how things were, it is about rebuilding important institutions, going back to a worker and consumer first economic policy, making our elections more representative, making people more engaged, and making sure all these things work for marginalized groups, especially black people. It is looking ahead not backward, it about reforming our socioeconomic system to me truly inclusive and democratic.

Not just putting blind faith in a system that has always been clearly flawed in one way or another.
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There is another option. To expand on your metaphor, one could decide to build their own house, instead of trying to make the status quo work (putting out fires and gaining access to all of the other rooms). There is a demonstrative where someone draws a circle around an ant. The ant creates barriers that don't really exist.
 
dwalk31 said:
There is another option. To expand on your metaphor, one could decide to build their own house, instead of trying to make the status quo work (putting out fires and gaining access to all of the other rooms). There is a demonstrative where someone draws a circle around an ant. The ant creates barriers that don't really exist.
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Put bluntly, this is asinine.

If you trying to argue that systemic barriers don't exist for minorities you are either ignorant of reality, completely delusional, or a bigot.

Whichever the case may be, I am not discussing this point further.

Meth might welcome a diversity of opinions on NT, even sometimes when they are ridiculous and offensive, but I don't have to entertain them.

Miss me
 
PLVN said:
"Barriers that don't really exist"
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He was so quick to make his silly deflection that my metaphor went over his head. Thehouse is America itself and it's insitutions. I point out how bad the healthcare industry is, infrastructure, our elections, and his idea is to go build your own.

I wonder if the US government will allow minorities to stop paying taxes to do so.

With his infinite deflection filled buffoonery, he is advocating for segregation. Maybe he is ignorant of what his post implies,

Orrrrrr he was trying to sneak in some white nationalist rhetoric without people noticing.

Dude on some circus bathroom steez
 
Last edited:
Bit more details on China's latest retaliatory tariffs set to take effect on September 24. As mentioned earlier, president Trump has accused China of interfering in the US midterm elections because their retaliatory tariffs are hitting the US agriculture sector particularly hard. I'll note again that every other country that has imposed retaliatory tariffs in response to Trump's trade war is also specifically targeting business sectors in Trump supporting strongholds.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chines...rumps-new-tariffs-1537275015?mod=hp_lead_pos2
China Retaliates With Tariffs on $60 Billion of U.S. Goods
New tariffs will take effect on Sept. 24 and will apply to 5,207 U.S. products, including farm goods, machinery and chemicals
China scrambled to deal with an escalating trade fight with the U.S., issuing an expected volley of tariffs and weighing whether to agree to Washington’s offer for more trade talks.

The announcement by the country’s cabinet came half a day afterPresident Trump announced new tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese goods, an action that left Chinese officials seeking an appropriate response. The new Chinese levies, on imports from the U.S. ranging from farm products and machinery to chemicals, will take effect on Sept. 24, the same day the latest U.S. penalties are set to kick in. The Chinese rates will range from 5% to 10%.

Mr. Trump reiterated on Tuesday that he would consider levying tariffs on virtually all Chinese goods imported to the U.S. if Beijing retaliates against U.S. farmer and workers.
Shortly after the White House’s announcement late on Monday, Chinese leadership’s economic troubleshooter, Vice Premier Liu He, huddled with his top lieutenants to devise a response, according to officials briefed on the matter. On the agenda was whether Mr. Liu or lower-level officials should go to Washington for a fresh round of trade talks.

China’s Commerce Ministry, in a brief statement midday Tuesday, had said that the U.S. tariffs create “new uncertainty” for negotiations and vowed that China would retaliate without mentioning any details.

Chinese leadership faces a dilemma as the world’s two largest economies pitch closer to a full-bore trade war. President Xi Jinping has banked his popularity and strongman reputation on turning China into a global power and can’t afford to back off, instructing officials to stand firm and punch back in negotiations.

Meanwhile, concerned that a spiraling trade fight could harm an already slowing economy and derail China’s onward rise, Mr. Xi has also ordered his officials to keep engaging with Washington and American businesses, according to Chinese officials and government advisers.

President Trump upped the stakes for Beijing Monday, first by saying that the new 10% tariffs on $200 billion in Chinese goods would take effect in only one week’s time. Then he reiterated a threat to hit another $267 billion of Chinese imports with tariffs if Beijing retaliates. Combined with goods already hit with punitive levies, the total would exceed the $505 billion in Chinese goods the U.S. imported last year.

“There will be great and fast economic retaliation against China if our farmers, ranchers and/or industrial workers are targeted!” President Trump said in a tweet Tuesday morning.

The new Chinese penalties come on top of the tariffs on $50 billion in American goods that are already in force, bringing the total amount of U.S. products subject to Chinese tariffs to $110 billion—or 85% of U.S. goods entering China last year. In the statement, the State Council said Beijing would increase the 5-10% tariff rates if Washington moved ahead with the 25% rate early next year, as planned.

Because China imports far fewer goods from the U.S.—just under $130 billion last year—Beijing is running out of products to penalize.

“The U.S. is in the driver’s seat,” a Chinese official said.

President Trump first threatened the $200 billion tariff round in July. While companies have had more than two months to digest the possibility, the escalation still jangled nerves. Business executives, including e-commerce titan Jack Ma, took the new tariffs as a signal that trade tensions aren’t going to dissipate soon.

The new U.S. tariffs will affect a broad range of products used by business and consumers, from auto parts to luggage. That’s a particular problem, business representatives warned, for companies with global supply chains reliant on China.

“Strategically, I think they should have a plan B,” said Carlo Diego D’Andrea, chairman of the manufacturing-heavy Shanghai chapter of the European Chamber of Commerce in China. While in past episodes of U.S.-China trade fights, European companies could expect to win orders at the expense of American firms, this time, they expect to be caught in the crossfire, according to a survey of member companies by the European Chamber.

In recent days with the new U.S. tariffs looming, Chinese officials and government advisers have questioned whether it’s time to negotiate with the Trump administration.

Vice Premier Liu gathered with other senior economic officials on Tuesday to consider Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin’s invitation last week for more talks in Washington, the officials briefed on the matter said.

Accepting the U.S. invitation would go against Beijing’s public stance that it won’t negotiate under the gun, the officials said, while declining could risk aggravating the tensions.

An option being considered, the officials said, involves sending a lower-level trade official—Vice Minister of Commerce Wang Shouwen—for talks this month while sparing Mr. Liu. Under the original plan, lower-level talks were to take place this week ahead of Mr. Liu’s trip to Washington late next week. As of late Tuesday, no final decisions were made on the issue, according to the officials.

An ally of Mr. Liu’s vented Tuesday about the pressure from Washington. “Negotiations can’t be done with this kind of tactic,” Fang Xinghai, vice chairman of the China Securities Regulatory Commission, said at a World Economic Forum meeting in the coastal city of Tianjin.
“It may work with some small country,” he said. “It doesn’t work with China.” The new U.S. tariffs, he said, have “poisoned the atmosphere for negotiations.”

Voices have been rising in Chinese policy circles in recent weeks saying that Beijing should wait to negotiate until after the November midterm elections. Many Chinese officials think President Trump isn’t ready to cut a deal, is bashing China now to appeal to his political base and may be more willing to negotiate after the elections.

Some Chinese officials advising the leadership are proposing to restrict China’s sales of materials, equipment and other parts key to U.S. manufacturers’ supply chains. If adopted, such a measure could hurt companies like Apple Inc., which assembles most of its gadgets in China, but also put millions of Chinese jobs in jeopardy.

Many American companies operating in China are growing increasingly worried about Chinese retaliation. In addition to tariffs, more than half of member firms surveyed by the American Chamber of Commerce in China earlier this month said they have experienced a rise in nontariff barriers in recent months, including increased inspections and slower customs clearance.

“Contrary to views in Washington, China can—and will—dig its heels in and we are not optimistic about the prospect for a resolution in the short term,” William Zarit, a business consultant and chairman of the chamber, said Tuesday.
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-tariffs-could-distort-the-economy-1537295601
How Tariffs Could Distort the Economy
With more tariffs threatened, it is rational for consumers and businesses to buy before price increases hit, but then comes the hangover
When times get tough, the tough go shopping. That is the rational response to the escalating U.S.-China trade battle.

A buying spree by consumers and businesses looking to get ahead of the tariffs will add another distortion to an economy already revved up by a big stimulus and tax cut and already facing a tight jobs market and rising prices.

With President Trump’s announcement of a 10% tariff on $200 billion in goods on Monday and China’s announcement on Tuesday of retaliatory tariffs on $60 billion in U.S. goods, trade tensions between the world’s two largest economies grew. Barring a deal, U.S. tariffs will rise to 25% at the end of the year, and tariffs on an additional $267 billion Chinese goods could be announced.

Tariffs are a tax on goods, and to avoid that tax people and companies will buy before it takes effect. When tariffs were imposed on washing machines and dryers earlier this year, sales picked up before the price increases occurred and fell sharply after. When Japan raised its consumption tax to 8% from 5% in 2014, private final consumption expenditures jumped by 1.9% the quarter before it took effect and fell 4.6% the quarter after.

Companies, which are focusing more on the trade spat than consumers, will import as much as they can from China before the tariffs hit. That is what happened ahead of the washing-machine and dryer tariffs.

A similar dynamic appears to have played out ahead of Monday’s tariff announcement. West Coast ports reported a big increase in incoming cargo in June as companies filled their warehouses before the expected tariff increases. That led to a slowdown in subsequent months. Imports of Chinese furniture, which are included in the tariffs, rose 10.5% in June and July compared with a year earlier, according to the Commerce Department.

With the two sides still willing to talk, the tariffs may never take effect. Consumers and businesses could hold off spending in the expectation of a settlement.

But if they do stock up, and a strong economy gives them the wherewithal to do it, the spending could boost growth through the end of the year. Businesses will likely step up their efforts to build China-made inventory.

This could lead to a New Year’s hangover as sated consumers balk at higher prices and businesses stop ordering because their warehouses are stuffed with merchandise. Chinese tariffs on U.S. goods also could hurt. With interest rates set to go up next week and again in December, the tightening could make the impact of the spending slowdown worse. That is when the impact of the trade fight will be felt.
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