***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[IATT]

Shocking..

 

[Belgium]

Went to pick up my preorder copy of Woodward’s book but the store was overwhelmed by the demand and had to delay their release to tomorrow

 

[IATT]

 

[plansb]

I preordered it on amazon last week. wonder if it will show up today. In the meantime i have the art and science of respect to finish.

 

[chao7]

Went to pick up my preorder copy of Woodward’s book but the store was overwhelmed by the demand and had to delay their release to tomorrow

Twitter has been great for news, and I don't even have an actual account, but I may need to check it less often.

Went on the post from Woodward about his book release and there's a bunch of cultists seriously trying to push the narrative that he is a liar because - get this - people in the Trump white house said things in the book weren't true.

As if there is any objective person who would take the word of these people over an icon of journalism like Woodward.

Seriously drives me up a ******* wall because of the sheer idiocy. Feel like I have to make an account and argue with all of them.

 

[Belgium]

Twitter has been great for news, and I don't even have an actual account, but I may need to check it less often.

Went on the post from Woodward about his book release and there's a bunch of cultists seriously trying to push the narrative that he is a liar because - get this - people in the Trump white house said things in the book weren't true.

As if there is any objective person who would take the word of these people over an icon of journalism like Woodward.

Seriously drives me up a ****ing wall because of the sheer idiocy. Feel like I have to make an account and argue with all of them.

I always apply a healthy grain of salt to any reporting but I'll be damned if I believe a word of a senior Trump administration official over Woodward.
Even people over here know who Woodward is and his status as a journalist, which I really didn't expect whatsoever.

 

[Belgium]

Poland just keeps spiralling downwards into an authoritarian state. Earlier this year they removed loads of Supreme Court judges by passing a specific retirement age law. The new retirement age of 65 for SC judges forced about 40% of the Supreme Court into retirement, including the chief justice. Their Minister of Justice had sole authority to grant them an extension.
President Duda then moved to stack the court with loyalist judges, however he has had some trouble filling the 40+ vacancies on the Supreme Court because many judges boycotted the judicial reforms.

Now Poland's ruling Law and Justice Party (yes that is really their name) is taking the next step and disciplining judges who are critical of the party and their judicial reforms.
Disciplinary courts are under control of Poland's executive branch.

The EU can't just slap sanctions on them either at this point because Poland isn't entirely isolated and Hungary will veto any sanctions measure.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-criticized-court-reforms?srnd=premium-europe
Poland Starts to Discipline Judges Who Criticized Court Reforms
Poland’s revamped judiciary disciplinary bodies started proceedings against three judges who publicly spoke out against the government’s sweeping court reforms.

Critics say the moves demonstrate the real intention of the repeated court overhauls -- to discipline judges that won’t take orders from politicians. Deputy Justice Minister Patryk Jaki said the process will evaluate the “scandalous” behavior and the judges’ involvement in politics.

Nearly three years of Polish reforms have triggered an unprecedented row with the European Union, which views the changes as detrimental to judicial independence and breaching the bloc’s democratic values. But the government in Warsaw has done little to address such concerns, knowing that the bloc lacks unanimity to impose political sanctions while talks on making access to the EU budget conditional on rule-of-law requirements are still at an early stage.

Judge Igor Tuleya, who suspended a criminal case to ask the European Court of Justice to assess judicial independence in Poland, is among the three people summoned to testify about their critical comments. They face sanctions under a revamped system where the justice minister has influence over disciplinary body appointments, creating a system where -- according to Polish judges’ association Iustitia -- impartiality is compromised.



“Judges shouldn’t engage in politics, certainly not to the extent these judges do,” Deputy Justice Minister Jaki told TVN24 on Tuesday. “That includes Judge Tuleya, who went as far as suspending a trial of a dangerous gang to manifest his views, which is scandalous.”

European Values
Poland’s ruling Law & Justice party argues that courts need to be overhauled to finally give regular citizens a sense of justice after judges were outside of politicians’ control for decades. The confrontation epitomizes struggles across the EU with populists challenging the bloc’s standards and raising alarm over the erosion of the rule of law.

Last month, Poland’s Supreme Court asked the EU’s top tribunal to decide whether new rules that force nearly two-fifths of its judges into retirement are consistent with the bloc’s values, triggering outrage by the authorities. Since then, two ordinary courts followed suit and asked the European Court of Justice to review the country’s judicial set up.

“Disciplinary courts are under control of the executive branch,” Bartlomiej Przymusinski, a spokesman for Iustitia and one of the judges in the disciplinary process, said by phone. “This means that the people we’ve been criticizing will be judging us.”

Speaking of Hungary, they are facing potential sanctions as well for similar reasons.
But much like Hungary will veto sanctions against Poland, the same is true for the reverse.

Excerpt: (Roughly sums it up)
Orban has appointed allies to head formerly independent institutions, rewritten the constitution and curtailed the power of the courts since returning to power in 2010. More recently, he’s led a crackdown against non-governmental organizations, the press and universities. He has called for the end of liberal democracy and the creation of an “illiberal state” with few effective checks on executive power.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...acy-test-in-eu-parliament?srnd=premium-europe
Orban’s ‘Illiberal’ Regime Faces Democracy Test in EU Parliament
European lawmakers will make final arguments on whether Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban’s “illiberal” government should be subject to the European Union’s strictest sanctions for threatening democracy and the rule-of-law in the world’s largest trading bloc.

The 751-member European Parliament has never before voted to trigger Article 7 of the EU treaty against a member state, which could ultimately lead to the suspension of a government’s vote in the EU. Orban will speak at the debate in Strasbourg, France, on Tuesday, a day before the vote. Two-thirds of lawmakers need to agree that Hungary poses a “clear risk of a serious breach” of EU values to start the process.

The venue is the next battleground between supporters of liberal democracy in the EU and populists inspired by Orban’s anti-immigration and EU-bashing policies. Sweden became the latest country over the weekend to see a surge in populist votes after similar forces pushed Britain toward exiting the EU and catapulted political bedfellows to power in Poland and Italy.

The European Commission requested a parallel Article 7 process to rein in officials in Warsaw last December.

Even as the most serious sanctions against Hungary are unlikely -- Poland would be expected to wield its veto before that point -- being seen as a pariah within the club brings its own costs in terms of a leader’s ability to influence policy and appointments.

For lawmakers, the vote will be a test of the EU’s commitment to defend its values before elections for European Parliament next year, where populists are angling to wrest control over the bloc’s direction. It also puts the European People’s Party, the center-right political group that’s parliament’s biggest, in the hot seat about Orban since his party, Fidesz, is a member and has until recently shielded from criticism.

“The outcome of the vote will depend on EPP members of the European Parliament,” Otilia Dhand, a Brussels-based analyst for political risk consultancy Teneo Intelligence, said in a report. “The relationship between the EPP and Fidesz is increasingly strained, and the pressure to expel the Hungarian party from the group is mounting.”

Shifting Dynamic

Orban has appointed allies to head formerly independent institutions, rewritten the constitution and curtailed the power of the courts since returning to power in 2010. More recently, he’s led a crackdown against non-governmental organizations, the press and universities. He has called for the end of liberal democracy and the creation of an “illiberal state” with few effective checks on executive power.

In a sign that the dynamic was shifting against Orban, Austrian Chancellor Sebastian Kurz told ORF television that EPP members from his party will vote to deploy Article 7. The leader of the Austrian EPP lawmakers went further, saying a majority voting against Orban may trigger the suspension of Fidesz from the EPP.

The Hungarian leader is scheduled to meet the EPP caucus on Tuesday evening in a last-ditch effort to convince them to vote against the motion.

Orban Compromise?
Orban can still avert Article 7 if he shows a willingness to resolve two specific issues irking the group: his drive to force out the George Soros-founded Central European University in Budapest and his crackdown on non-governmental organizations. The European Commission filed a lawsuit against Hungary on both counts.

“He has to say that he will openly discuss these questions with the Commission and find a solution to it,” said Elmar Brok, an EPP lawmaker from German Chancellor Angela Merkel’s CDU. “Let’s see if he’s ready to do this.”

While critics argue that the threat of closing down the CEU and the NGO law -- which imposes a jail term of up to a year for the loosely defined crime of helping illegal immigration -- are the tip of the iceberg of Orban’s overhaul of Hungary, movement on those two issues may be sufficient to keep the EPP on side, according to Brok.

 

[dacomeup]

I knew something was off when Wittes was caping for Kavanaugh on Twitter last week.

 

[nomnom]

Jesus christ i get the whole “attack democracy” but seriously?

 

[nomnom]

First Pepe the frog now Thomas the Train have been used for white supremacist views NOOOOO

 

[nomnom]

 

[boris]

Profound message here in case anyone forgot how to count.

 

[blastercombo]

My goodness. Dude really is an idiot. Looks like he’s happy about it too

 

[getback]

 

[blastercombo]

I refuse to believe these are real. I just can’t......

 

[aepps20]

My face reading these disgusting statements.

 

[IATT]

 

[boris]

Yeah, but athletes are kneeling during the national anthem! The horror!

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

Profound message here in case anyone forgot how to count.

I'm pretty sure he f'd it up on his first draft and his advisers told him to change it

 

[boris]

I'm pretty sure he f'd it up on his first draft and his advisers told him to change it

"17 years since Crooked Hillary and Kenyan Muslim Barack Obama caused September 11th!"

Except he woulda spelled it BarRack.

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

How do y'all think our Dapper President would handle the 9/11 attacks under his watch?

 

[aepps20]

How do y'all think our Dapper President would handle the 9/11 attacks under his watch?

Much better than Obummer and Rinos like Bush. He would've challenged Bin Laden to a round of golf to settle things. After completely humiliating him on the links he would knock him out with a left hook. #Donttreadonme

 

[nomnom]

How do y'all think our Dapper President would handle the 9/11 attacks under his watch?

Interesting question

Considering how he was a democrat until 2009 that time and neocons basically ran the Bush foreign policy. They probably wouldve been able to swindle 2001 Trump though so probably the same result. The only diff is Trump rhetoric.

 

[getback]

How do y'all think our Dapper President would handle the 9/11 attacks under his watch?

Terrifying to think about actually

 

[Sharpshoeter13]

He'd probably talk **** about Bin Laden for a few months and have a summit a year after