***Official Political Discussion Thread***

The problem isn’t even with trump being right of center or how conservative he is or isn’t. It’s that the stances he’s pushes policy on largely not based in reality. Immigration comes to mind immediately. Trumps public stance on immigration would have you think the majority of illegal immigrants are 1) sneaking over the boarder and 2) at such large and frequent rate that it requries a wall. Even though data proves that’s not even how the large majority of illegal immigrants enter the US.
 
-Reagan blew up the deficit

-Bush Jr blew up the deficit

-Trump blew up the deficit

Bush Sr. was the only one with some kind of sense and the GOP hated him for that.

Trump blowing up the deficit with silly supply-side economics in very Republican. It is what they do best.

Our deficit will reach historic levels in a few years, it will get to the point where it drags down growth. We don't need deficit hawks at that point, we definitely don't need them in a doomsday scenario. We need people willing to tax the rich properly and push forward policy to increase aggregate demand.
 
However, these low income libertarians believe that socialism is a death trap and the only way that things could ever change is by use returning to a 19th century tax and regulatory structure.


It should also be noted that many low income, small government types can be part of both groups. They can see value in a return to both 19 century economics and social structures.
This will be interesting when social security is R.I.P. and the medicare program is left in further shambles with this pursuit of a outdated structure. The same low income libertarians will probably cry for the same programs that they are actively hurting currently with who they support.

Their low income peers that are already class conscious will hit them with the
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I mean the guy just listed what he likes with Trunk and it easily immediately gets shut down or gets proven untrue. All most conversations with trump supporters go that way and then ends with a “well we’ll see” or “what about Obama?????”.
 
Obviously, it should be restated that most low income conservatives buy into and repeat the “small government” line because it’s a dog whistle for restoring the full weight of racial, religious and gender hierarchies.

At the same time, there is a subset of low income, small government types who are a sort of right wing accelerationist. They know that their lives are bad and will be bad unless there is structural change. They know that the professed social contract of education, work and thrift as sure vehicles for inward mobility is a sham. In that way they are like revolutionary leftists.

However, these low income libertarians believe that socialism is a death trap and the only way that things could ever change is by use returning to a 19th century tax and regulatory structure.


It should also be noted that many low income, small government types can be part of both groups. They can see value in a return to both 19 century economics and social structures.
Famb, I agree with your point but don't NYT long form it with the language, just call them bigots and racist :lol
 
This will be interesting when social security is R.I.P. and the medicare program is left in further shambles with this pursuit of a outdated structure. The same low income libertarians will probably cry for the same programs that they are actively hurting currently with who they support.

Their low income peers that are already class conscious will hit them with the
tenor.gif
Months back Erza Klein had a podcast where him and his guess we're talking about the positives of partisanship. One of the examples given was that in the 1950s, if Civil Right was very important to you there was no way for you to really pursue that goal at the ballot box because the parties were so similar on the issue. Both believed in very slow or very little progress on the issue. But in 2018, if you value Civil Rights, you have a party to vote for.

Well, the same might be true of a good faction of the GOP voters. There is no a party that represents their desires.

The GOP offers right-wing economics (which they don't want) with right-wing social policy (ole fashion white supremacy, which they do want)

The Dems offer left-wing economics (which they do want) with left-wing social policy (which they don't want). This is why leftist are absolute right about progressive policies being favored by these folk. In the backs of their heads, they know they are ****** and need help.

A party that offers right-wing economics (which they don't want) and left-wing social policy (which don't want) will be firmly rejected. That is why Bill Clinton style centrist will never work in these areas. You offer these people insufficient economic help and insufficient white supremacy they will reject it.

What they really want is left-wing economics with right-wing social policy. Right now there is no party that really offers that. Unfortunately for them the modern leftist, even the white ones, for the most part, believe in justice. So now these voters have to make a choice over what they value more, economic security or white supremacy.

What the GOP, with the help of libertarian thought leaders is provided people a narrative that they are better off without the economic security that left-wing economics provides. Because they have soundly tied left-wing economics and social democracy with helping the poor, not any kind of poor, the undeserving poor. In other words, minorities. These people "white culture" is presented to them as the most valuable resource they have so don't do trading it for **** like healthcare, good schools, and education. And this plan works like a charm because like George Wallace said if you can out n-word your opponent to these people, they won't give a **** about anything else.

But like Lee Atwater says, you don't use to N-word, you get very abstract, and that where the libertarian rhetoric comes in handy. No surprise that the Tea Party movement presented themselves as libertarians, but was really just agree white people indulging in some good ole fashion toxic nationalism and bigotry.
 
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Famb, I agree with your point but don't NYT long form it with the language, just call them bigots and racist :lol:

:lol:

I know but hear me out. I was trying to quickly include the MRA-Jordan Peterson fans as well who believe that feminists and “gender studies” and SJWs are why wages are low.

In this case, I’m not just talking about white supremacist. (Although there is a ton of overlap between patriarchy and white supremacy).
 
I think I speak for the echo chamber in saying that beliefs on the other side would be taken much more seriously if you guys start providing data.
 
I think I speak for the echo chamber in saying that beliefs on the other side would be taken much more seriously if you guys start providing data.

They had the electoral fraud commission ready to publish a report with gaps in lieu of examples. Do you think they even think about data?

They don't ask the pastor to provide a calendar when they hear the story of Genesis for the nth time.

"Who did Caen/Abel (can't remember who killed who) **** to have all these descendants considering that at the beginning of time, there was only them, Adam and their mo...?"

Good night, folks...
 
They had the electoral fraud commission ready to publish a report with gaps in lieu of examples. Do you think they even think about data?

They don't ask the pastor to provide a calendar when they hear the story of Genesis for the nth time.

"Who did Caen/Abel (can't remember who killed who) **** to have all these descendants considering that at the beginning of time, there was only them, Adam and their mo...?"

Good night, folks...
Nah, these fools come in here to ***** about the echo chamber and how no one wants to listen to their opinion, but they provide zero data to support what they're saying. This is why I think they're all just trolling.
 
Yo...

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/

TOXIC SHOCK
EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing
By SYDNEY FRANKLIN • August 6, 2018
National News Product Technology
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has enacted a SNUR (Significant New Rule) allowing companies to use new asbestos-containing products on a case-by-case basis. (Courtesy Mesothelioma + Asbestos Awareness Center)


One of the most dangerous construction-related carcinogens is now legally allowed back into U.S. manufacturing under a new rule by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). On June 1, the EPA authorized a “SNUR” (Significant New Use Rule) which allows new products containing asbestos to be created on a case-by-case basis.

According to environmental advocates, this new rule gives chemical companies the upper hand in creating new uses for such harmful products in the United States. In May, the EPA released a report detailing its new framework for evaluating the risk of its top prioritized substances. The report states that the agency will no longer consider the effect or presence of substances in the air, ground, or water in its risk assessments.

This news comes after the EPA reviewed its first batch of 10 chemicals under the 2016 amendment to the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), which required the agency to continually reevaluate hundreds of potentially toxic chemicals to see whether they should face new restrictions or be removed from the market. The SNUR greenlights companies to use toxic chemicals like asbestos without thinking about how it will endanger people who are indirectly in contact with it.

Asbestos, once seen as a magical mineral, was widely used in building insulation up until it was banned in most countries in the 1970s. The U.S. is one of the only developed nations in the world that has placed significant restrictions on the substance without banning it completely. New data revealed that asbestos-related deaths now total nearly 40,000 annually, with lung cancer and mesothelioma being the most common illnesses in association with the toxin. That number could rise if new asbestos-containing products make their way into brand new buildings.


Asbestos poses a major health risk for everyone who comes into contact with it, both directly and indirectly. (Courtesy OSHA Safety Manual)

Healthy Building Network (HBN), an environmental advocacy group, recently told Fast Company that the fibrous material poses a major health risk for everyone exposed to it, including those who mine it, those who handle it in industrial facilities, as well as people near or inside renovation and construction projects where it’s being used. HBN’s Board President Bill Walsh said that the chlor-alkali industry is the only industry in the country that still uses asbestos, reportedly importing about 480 tons of the carcinogen each year from Russia and Brazil.

Walsh also pointed out that chlorine-based plastics are commonly found in building-product materials and that “virtually all” asbestos in the U.S. is used in the industrial process to make chlorine. This includes PVC and vinyl plastics, which is largely found in the creation of pipes, tiles, flooring, adhesives, paints, and roofing products.

Though the EPA is easing its regulations against using harmful toxins like asbestos, it will largely be the responsibility of local and state governments, as well as companies and informed consumers to counter these federal moves. Walsh says it’s up to sustainable building-product manufacturers and ultimately, architects to pressure the market.

“Architects really set the pace of design, in terms of aesthetics and materials that we like,” he said. “If they start to incorporate health-based criteria into their palette, it could really have an influence on what the manufacturers produce.”


Building Products ChemicalsEnvironmental Protection Agencygovernment
 
Yo...

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/

TOXIC SHOCK
EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing
By SYDNEY FRANKLIN • August 6, 2018
National News Product Technology
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has enacted a SNUR (Significant New Rule) allowing companies to use new asbestos-containing products on a case-by-case basis. (Courtesy Mesothelioma + Asbestos Awareness Center)


One of the most dangerous construction-related carcinogens is now legally allowed back into U.S. manufacturing under a new rule by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). On June 1, the EPA authorized a “SNUR” (Significant New Use Rule) which allows new products containing asbestos to be created on a case-by-case basis.

According to environmental advocates, this new rule gives chemical companies the upper hand in creating new uses for such harmful products in the United States. In May, the EPA released a report detailing its new framework for evaluating the risk of its top prioritized substances. The report states that the agency will no longer consider the effect or presence of substances in the air, ground, or water in its risk assessments.

This news comes after the EPA reviewed its first batch of 10 chemicals under the 2016 amendment to the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), which required the agency to continually reevaluate hundreds of potentially toxic chemicals to see whether they should face new restrictions or be removed from the market. The SNUR greenlights companies to use toxic chemicals like asbestos without thinking about how it will endanger people who are indirectly in contact with it.

Asbestos, once seen as a magical mineral, was widely used in building insulation up until it was banned in most countries in the 1970s. The U.S. is one of the only developed nations in the world that has placed significant restrictions on the substance without banning it completely. New data revealed that asbestos-related deaths now total nearly 40,000 annually, with lung cancer and mesothelioma being the most common illnesses in association with the toxin. That number could rise if new asbestos-containing products make their way into brand new buildings.


Asbestos poses a major health risk for everyone who comes into contact with it, both directly and indirectly. (Courtesy OSHA Safety Manual)

Healthy Building Network (HBN), an environmental advocacy group, recently told Fast Company that the fibrous material poses a major health risk for everyone exposed to it, including those who mine it, those who handle it in industrial facilities, as well as people near or inside renovation and construction projects where it’s being used. HBN’s Board President Bill Walsh said that the chlor-alkali industry is the only industry in the country that still uses asbestos, reportedly importing about 480 tons of the carcinogen each year from Russia and Brazil.

Walsh also pointed out that chlorine-based plastics are commonly found in building-product materials and that “virtually all” asbestos in the U.S. is used in the industrial process to make chlorine. This includes PVC and vinyl plastics, which is largely found in the creation of pipes, tiles, flooring, adhesives, paints, and roofing products.

Though the EPA is easing its regulations against using harmful toxins like asbestos, it will largely be the responsibility of local and state governments, as well as companies and informed consumers to counter these federal moves. Walsh says it’s up to sustainable building-product manufacturers and ultimately, architects to pressure the market.

“Architects really set the pace of design, in terms of aesthetics and materials that we like,” he said. “If they start to incorporate health-based criteria into their palette, it could really have an influence on what the manufacturers produce.”


Building Products ChemicalsEnvironmental Protection Agencygovernment

 
Yo...

https://archpaper.com/2018/08/epa-asbestos-manufacturing/

TOXIC SHOCK
EPA is now allowing asbestos back into manufacturing
By SYDNEY FRANKLIN • August 6, 2018
National News Product Technology
The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has enacted a SNUR (Significant New Rule) allowing companies to use new asbestos-containing products on a case-by-case basis. (Courtesy Mesothelioma + Asbestos Awareness Center)


One of the most dangerous construction-related carcinogens is now legally allowed back into U.S. manufacturing under a new rule by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). On June 1, the EPA authorized a “SNUR” (Significant New Use Rule) which allows new products containing asbestos to be created on a case-by-case basis.

According to environmental advocates, this new rule gives chemical companies the upper hand in creating new uses for such harmful products in the United States. In May, the EPA released a report detailing its new framework for evaluating the risk of its top prioritized substances. The report states that the agency will no longer consider the effect or presence of substances in the air, ground, or water in its risk assessments.

This news comes after the EPA reviewed its first batch of 10 chemicals under the 2016 amendment to the 1976 Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA), which required the agency to continually reevaluate hundreds of potentially toxic chemicals to see whether they should face new restrictions or be removed from the market. The SNUR greenlights companies to use toxic chemicals like asbestos without thinking about how it will endanger people who are indirectly in contact with it.

Asbestos, once seen as a magical mineral, was widely used in building insulation up until it was banned in most countries in the 1970s. The U.S. is one of the only developed nations in the world that has placed significant restrictions on the substance without banning it completely. New data revealed that asbestos-related deaths now total nearly 40,000 annually, with lung cancer and mesothelioma being the most common illnesses in association with the toxin. That number could rise if new asbestos-containing products make their way into brand new buildings.


Asbestos poses a major health risk for everyone who comes into contact with it, both directly and indirectly. (Courtesy OSHA Safety Manual)

Healthy Building Network (HBN), an environmental advocacy group, recently told Fast Company that the fibrous material poses a major health risk for everyone exposed to it, including those who mine it, those who handle it in industrial facilities, as well as people near or inside renovation and construction projects where it’s being used. HBN’s Board President Bill Walsh said that the chlor-alkali industry is the only industry in the country that still uses asbestos, reportedly importing about 480 tons of the carcinogen each year from Russia and Brazil.

Walsh also pointed out that chlorine-based plastics are commonly found in building-product materials and that “virtually all” asbestos in the U.S. is used in the industrial process to make chlorine. This includes PVC and vinyl plastics, which is largely found in the creation of pipes, tiles, flooring, adhesives, paints, and roofing products.

Though the EPA is easing its regulations against using harmful toxins like asbestos, it will largely be the responsibility of local and state governments, as well as companies and informed consumers to counter these federal moves. Walsh says it’s up to sustainable building-product manufacturers and ultimately, architects to pressure the market.

“Architects really set the pace of design, in terms of aesthetics and materials that we like,” he said. “If they start to incorporate health-based criteria into their palette, it could really have an influence on what the manufacturers produce.”


Building Products ChemicalsEnvironmental Protection Agencygovernment

They literally want to take this country back to the 1950s environmentally as well. Why don't we bring back CFCs while we're at it.
 
‘If I See ‘Em, I’ll Shoot ‘Em’ C-SPAN Caller Issues Threat Against Don Lemon and Brian Stelter

C-SPAN viewers got quite the shock Friday when a man called in and threatened “to shoot” CNN journalists Don Lemon and Brian Stelter during a live broadcast.

The caller, ID’d by C-SPAN host Greta Brawner as “Don from State College, Pennsylvania,” phoned into the show Friday to back President Donald Trump‘s recent attacks on the news media, HuffPost reported. Throughout his presidency, Trump has repeatedly demonized the press, calling it “the enemy of the people” and “fake news.”

“It all started when Trump got elected,” “Don from Pennsylvania,” said before accusing the reporters of labeling all Trump supporters as racist. “[Stelter and Lemon] don’t even know us. They don’t even know these Americans out here, and they’re calling us racist because we voted for Trump? C’mon, give me a break.”

“They started the war. If I see ’em, I’m going to shoot ’em. Bye,” he added before abruptly hanging up.

Stelter addressed the threat on CNN on Sunday, noting that he nor Lemon has ever dubbed all Trump supporters as “racist.” The “Reliable Sources” host also pointed out that the night before, FOX News anchor Sean Hannity played an old clip of Stelter asking if “racial anxiety played a role in Trump’s rise, suggesting that’s what may have triggered the caller’s false accusation.
 
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