***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[Based Jesus]

What do you have to lose?

Ridiculous

 

[Chiron]

Don't let Jordan Peterson distract y'all from the fact that the Pentagon blew through 21 trillion unaccounted for.... They could've built gender neutral bathrooms in public buildings across the country. If oppressed groups had money like whites, they wouldn't need to bother with them. Economic reform needs to come before social justice reform. FDR had The New Deal and now we need The Re-Up. If the US wants to argue that spending the GDP of other developed nations entirely on defense is necessary... They might as well start really strong arming smaller nations until the US starts looking like dubai.

 

[RIP sleazyy]

Agree with some of that. I am of the mind that the time of appealing to the white power structure is over. Ideally oppressed groups should start banding together for the common goal of economic freedom and equal footing in the system we are stuck in, through our own means.

It has to begin on a community level and rise from there. Boycotts, money pools, community movements, etc. It will take a long time but it's the only real way. Making demands and hoping for changes while the structure makes small concessions and puts band aids on bullet wounds isn't gonna cut it.

 

[the qbz]

Pentagon blew 21 trillion
And the saturn still wasnt finished

 

[MalcolmNewton]

Don't let Jordan Peterson distract y'all from the fact that the Pentagon blew through 21 trillion unaccounted for.

Some of that money goes to off the books black-ops, funding 'seperatists groups', paying off certain people with cash. It's accounted for alright. Just not at the BRM.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Here is the thing, if white people, especially males have a monopoly over society's power structures, and equal participation is not guaranteed, then they reap most of the benefits from robust economic reforms.

The New Deal was push through partly because an agreement was struck that black people would be excluded from reaping the much of the benefits.

Furthermore, social justice issues are economic issues to the people they affect. If transgender people can be fired, denied loans, and be discriminated against for their gender identity, then they pay and economic cost. Criminal Justice reform not just about police treating black people unfairly but hitting folk with charges has severe economic consequences for them. Police use municipal fines and civil forfeiture to fund their departments after austerity has been implemented in their state. If zoning is not fixed then schools will still be unequally funded and that hurts the economic prospects for students.

So we can play this "let's do economics first" but there will be unequal returns based on who has the power in this country. And they will be able to extract this new found wealth from groups that have no power or adequate civil rights protection.

You have to do social democracy, anti-poverty, and civil right advocacy together. Put one on the back burner just undercuts the other.

I also highly doubt that after the white middle class is rebuilt there will be an appetite for stronger civil rights enforcement or social justice reforms. Hell, that is what tore apart the Dems New Deal coalition, civil rights, and trust at the time people that support such measures were missed in a similar fashion "social justice warriors" are dismissed today.

-Also, like I say plenty of times, people can multitask. We just happen to discuss Peterson for one night.

 

[elpablo21]

 

[IATT]

 

[Chiron]

Here is the thing, if white people, especially males have a monopoly over society's power structures, and equal participation is not guaranteed, then they reap most of the benefits from robust economic reforms.

The New Deal was push through partly because an agreement was struck that black people would be excluded from reaping the benefits.

Furthermore, social justice issues are economic issues to the people they affect. If transgender people can be fired, denied loans, and be discriminated against for their gender identity, then they pay and economic cost. Criminal Justice reform not just about police treating black people unfairly but hitting folk with charges has severe economic consequences for them. Police use municipal fines and civil forfeiture to fund their departments after austerity has been implemented in their state. If zoning is not fixed then schools will still be unequally funded and that hurts the economic prospects for students.

So we can play this "let's do economics first" but there will be unequal returns based on who has the power in this country. And they will be able to extract this new found wealth from groups that have no power or adequate civil rights protection.

You have to do social democracy, anti-poverty, and civil right advocacy together. Put one on the back burner just undercuts the other.

I also highly doubt that after the white middle class is rebuilt there will be an appetite for stronger civil rights enforcement or social justice reforms.

-Also, like I say plenty of times, people can multitask. We just happen to discuss Peterson for one night.

Social reform arguments distract more than they help. You will not reach the people who are staunchly opposed with any amount of logic, reasoning, or appeal to human decency. The only reason you have a chance at economic reform is because someone gets usually paid. But it's much more productive to argue that way with concentrated organized effort.

First, Educated citizens are far more likely to be for social justice. So I do believe there is a long game domino effect on education reform. To improve education, which the government has shown it does not want to fund, we have to improve housing and the property tax funding system, possibly setting a minimum standard that public schools budget per child. If the state funding doesn't meet it, then the Federal government would have to supplement the school. Improve education funding, increase jobs in education... social justice will improve. This is a budget problem not a social problem. The federal government will say we don't have the money.... Point to the defense budget.
(side note: believe it or not... there are a lot of bigoted people who think less of minorities because they are poorly educated.... somehow not connecting the dots that they are poorly educated because they are minorities. This is why they always have a "black friend" or "gay friend"... the one who got a well rounded education and doesn't fit a stereotype. )

Second, policing is not equally distributed and justice is not equally administered. Minorities who obtain good jobs, possibly even federal and state jobs that are created, will move to less crime ridden and policed neighborhoods. The money and lobbying power of the private prison industry needs to be addressed also. Once again this is a money issue before it is a discrimination issue. We have incentivized racism. Remove the incentives, wait for reform.

Any large scale rebuilding of a middle class, even if whites see more benefit than minorities, will benefit minorities greatly. With many millennials unable to move out of their parents home due to rising costs, job prospects, and stagnant wages, it will not be easy to beat the systematic oppression, but it is possible if wealth starts to accumulate and recirculate in the middle class. Even though the occupy movement came and went... Wealth inequality has not stopped growing. As long as money is speech and corporations are people, if you want a real voice for social justice, you better have money. I think the recent supreme court ruling shows us that

 

[Belgium]

2 days in a row of delusional and off the rails rants. A big shoe might drop soon or the pressure is getting to him more than usual. Or maybe his mental state is just further declining, who knows.
After seeing something on none other than Fox & Friends of course, he now wants former CIA Director Brennan in jail.





And of course, what would a tweet rant be without some random mention of Obummer?

 

[blastercombo]

Where is Obama? Dude is done and living it up. Where he’s at doesn’t even matter.

Better questions

1. Where was your wife when you ****** Stormy?
2. Where were the condoms?
3. Where are the **** pics?

 

[aepps20]

What do you have to lose?

Best news I've heard All Day. Libs are in shambles right now. The working man got a HUGE W today. Jobs are coming back, libs will cry and we letting the GOOD TIMES ROLL.

 

[Belgium]

Meanwhile Putin sits there laughing in the Kremlin watching the US strain their longstanding relations with their biggest allies.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-u-s-iran-plan-even-before-pompeo-presents-it
U.K. Slams New U.S. Iran Plan Even Before Pompeo Presents It

Even before U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo announced his new plan for curbing Iran’s nuclear ambitions, America’s oldest ally in the West -- the U.K. -- declared that it won’t work.



The deepening clash on a critical foreign policy matter is straining the so-called special relationship between Britain and the U.S. after President Donald Trump withdrew from the multilateral Iran nuclear deal, a move that threatens European businesses with sanctions.



Speaking in Buenos Aires on Monday, minutes before Pompeo’s speech, British Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson set out why he thinks the Secretary of State’s proposal for “a new jumbo Iran negotiation” is flawed. He predicted that in the end the U.S. will come back to discussing an enhanced version of the original deal -- known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action -- but it may take a long time.



“If you try now to fold all those issues -- the ballistic missiles, Iran’s misbehaviour, Iran’s disruptive activity in the region and the nuclear question -- if you try to fold all those into a giant negotiation,” Johnson said, “I don’t see that being very easy to achieve, in anything like a reasonable timetable.”



The Iran nuclear deal that Trump ditched had “a very clear objective” to protect the world from an Iranian nuclear bomb while in return giving the Iranians some recognizable economic benefits, he said. “The Americans have walked away from that,” Johnson said. “The prospect of a new jumbo Iran treaty is going to be very, very difficult.”

Johnson said he still believed reaching some kind of accord which includes the U.S. is possible.

“I’m not totally pessimistic about the situation,” he said. “In the end, there is a deal to be done that gives Iran a greater economic access to the West, but also constrains it. That’s what we want to work on with the Americans. They have some ideas; we have some ideas. I think in the end, we will get back to the kind of additions to the JCPOA that we initially envisaged -- but it may take a long time.”

 

[Belgium]

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/21/trump-justice-department-fbi-informant-601572
Trump to press DOJ officials to hand over FBI informant details

President Donald Trump will ask his top Justice Department officials at a White House meeting later Monday to turn over to Congress and his own legal team all of the memos they have about an FBI informant who made contact with his 2016 campaign, Trump attorney Rudy Giuliani told POLITICO.

“He wants them to turn over the information that exists about the informant to the House and Senate committees — all the memos they have,” Giuliani said of the meeting scheduled for 3 p.m. between the president, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, FBI Director Christopher Wray and Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence.


The documents, Giuliani said, will "indicate what the informant found." Then, the memos "should be made available to us on a confidential basis," he added. "We should be at least allowed to read them so we know this exculpatory evidence is being preserved.”

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders confirmed the meeting and said in an email that the “focus is on the response to congressional requests.” She added that the meeting was scheduled last week. DOJ referred a request for comment to the White House.

Trump’s lawyers also want to interview the FBI officials who made the decision to connect the informant with the campaign.

“It’s the FBI who has the onus for having invaded the campaign,” Giuliani said.

Giuliani predicted the Justice Department would place redactions on some parts of the material.

“But as long as they turn over the vast majority of it it gives you a real sense” of what the FBI was doing. “The question is what are the justifications for it? Did the justifications continue? Did they pick up anything valuable? That’s the most important thing to do. We think they didn’t.”

Trump’s demand could place both Rosenstein and Wray in an untenable position: being ordered to breach long-standing DOJ precedent and reveal to Congress details about a secret source.

Justice Department officials have previously argued that such a disclosure to lawmakers would endanger national security and risk lives.

But Republicans on Capitol Hill demanding the information have rejected that contention and accused Justice officials of stonewalling. The confrontation was, until Trump's involvement, defused after calls between the White House, DOJ officials and top lawmakers.

But Trump on Sunday demanded that the Justice Department look into whether the FBI "infiltrated or surveilled" his campaign for political reasons.

"I hereby demand, and will do so officially tomorrow, that the Department of Justice look into whether or not the FBI/DOJ infiltrated or surveilled the Trump Campaign for Political Purposes — and if any such demands or requests were made by people within the Obama Administration!" the president wrote on Twitter.

Trump’s call for an investigation was met with eager support from some factions on Capitol Hill.

“This is the right call from @realDonaldTrump--we've seen disturbing evidence that the FBI engaged in political targeting,” tweeted Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), who had led the congressional calls to investigate DOJ over the Russia probe. “But the DOJ can't be trusted to investigate themselves--Congress needs the documents too. Rod Rosenstein: where are the documents? Show Americans the truth.”

A group of 16 GOP lawmakers also prepared Monday to roll out a resolution to condemn FBI and DOJ officials for that they claim to be “misconduct” at the highest levels of the agencies.

But law enforcement experts and intelligence-focused Democrats have countered that the use of informants are common in counterintelligence investigations. They warn that Trump and his allies in Congress are risking the erosion of years of trust that law enforcement has spent establishing trust with its informants.

“It would be at best irresponsible, and at worst potentially illegal, for members of Congress to use their positions to learn the identity of an FBI source for the purpose of undermining the ongoing investigation into Russian interference in our election,” tweeted Senate Intelligence Committee ranking member Mark Warner (D-Va.).

In anticipation of Trump’s order, the Justice Department has worked quickly to contain confrontation, preemptively announcing that Inspector General Michael Horowitz would tack on Trump’s investigation request to his ongoing probe of potential surveillance abuse by the FBI — a probe that was launched based on previous demands by Trump allies.

“That’s going to be released," Giuliani told POLITICO. "It's already been circulated to people who have made significant comments. Everyone is anxiously awaiting it because it’s expected to be quite a knockout.”

Giuliani, who is in Arizona on Monday and did not plan to be a part of the White House meeting, said he was unfazed by any potential fallout from the president upping the pressure on DOJ leaders.

“Could you imagine why they’d say 'no'? I’m trying to figure that out,” Giuliani said.

The Trump lawyer said one of his reasons for supporting the president's actions stemmed from several media outlets that have reported on the informant’s interactions with the Republican’s 2016 campaign, including a New York Times story last week about the first incarnations of the Russia investigation — dubbed “Crossfire Hurricane” — in the thick of the White House race.

He also singled out the Wall Street Journal, which on Sunday named the informant.

“It doesn’t trouble me that the president of the United States thinks that his Justice Department was acting inappropriately if they didn’t release to Congress information about what was done without identifying sources,” Giuliani said. “This can’t be earth-shattering, end-of-the-republic information. What would happen that’d be ugly?”


Several high-profile former Justice Department officials have taken the exact opposite stance.

Former Attorney General Eric Holder on Twitter Monday challenged the president over his foray into the details of the underlying Russia probe.

“Trump demand for DOJ investigation is dangerous/democracy threatening," the former Obama appointee wrote. "DOJ response is disappointing. There is no basis/no predicate for an inquiry. It's time to stand for time honored DOJ independence. That separation from White House is a critical part of our system."

 

[Chiron]

Best news I've heard All Day. Libs are in shambles right now. The working man got a HUGE W today. Jobs are coming back, libs will cry and we letting the GOOD TIMES ROLL.

Part of me wants to believe that the working man got a win. I'm really curious though. What makes you think jobs are coming back? When the tax cuts rolled in companies bought back shares instead of creating jobs? Also what good are jobs if they are gutted of benefits and mostly part time low wage jobs?

 

[EddieDoyers]

Part of me wants to believe that the working man got a win. I'm really curious though. What makes you think jobs are coming back? When the tax cuts rolled in companies bought back shares instead of creating jobs? Also what good are jobs if they are gutted of benefits and mostly part time low wage jobs?

lol aepps20 is parodying Trump supporters, that post was a joke.

 

[biggie62]

Damn went right over the dudes head

 

[Chiron]

Yeah the Avy and sig to post ratio had my ankles broke. Not familiar with troll accounts.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Been saying dude is the best method actor in the game.

 

[sonoftony]

I love how aepps20 confuses the **** out of everybody

 

[aepps20]

Part of me wants to believe that the working man got a win. I'm really curious though. What makes you think jobs are coming back? When the tax cuts rolled in companies bought back shares instead of creating jobs? Also what good are jobs if they are gutted of benefits and mostly part time low wage jobs?

All excellent questions. My answer is to all those questions is OUR PRESIDENT ELECT is on the job and everything he does will benefit the working man. #MAGA.

 

[MalcolmNewton]

Yeah the Avy and sig to post ratio had my ankles broke. Not familiar with troll accounts.

Don't feel so bad, he had me fooled once upon a time till I caught on that he was mocking #TEAMMAGA

 

[RustyShackleford]

I love how aepps20 confuses the **** out of everybody

When famb is out of character, spitting that real in order threads, it seriously takes me a couple seconds to remember that is him being normal.

One time he was ranting about racism and I legit thought he was being sarcastic. I thought the post would end with something like "haha stupid libbies" or "Obummer".

Daniel Day Aepps is a master at his craft

 

[IATT]

lol aepps20 is parodying Trump supporters, that post was a joke.

Finally a worthy successor

 

[chao7]

Daniel Day Aepps is a master at his craft

Daniel Day Lou-Aepps