***Official Political Discussion Thread***

On the airstrike thing, I am not gonna put it all on Trump

Under Obama tons of civilians were killed in missions, and airstrikes.

The American public needs to face reality that if you demand the government fight terrorist overseas, and demand that tons of ground troops not be used, that strikes like these are the next best option and civilians will be killed.

We as a nation he to have a more honest discussion about stuff like these. I'm sure both Obama and Trump would want no civilians killed in strikes. But we hardly ever get that lucky.

100 is ridiculous though. :{ My heart goes out to those people.

Since so much of a nation's power is based on how other nation's perceive it, America is less powerful than it was 20 years ago. After Vietnam, the world though that if you can use static defense and/or guerilla warfare, you can inflict enough casualties that America will lose its appetite for war and you can win a political victory. After the first Gulf War and after Somali, other nations and groups understood that the post Vietnam consensus was over. After The First Gulf War and after Somali, we reversed that idea. Now our opponents had to think neight massive static defenses nor guerilla war will even bloody Americans to the point that you can achieve a political victory.

Unfortunately, the second Iraq war and the bombing campaigns done by Clinton, Obama and now Trump, make us weaker. It tells our opponents that we are unwilling to but an army in the field or to even use manned, close in air power. I am absolutely fine with our political culture being averse to large scale ground assaults and prolonged military occupations but our political culture also demands that presidents still be bellicose. So we are in an equilibrium where we use our air power, the best in the world, and gain a series of tactical victories but take strategic loses. That lose is the lose of fear in the eyes of our opponents.



Obama wasn't let off the hook though in regards to drones and air strikes,he received considerable criticism on the left, from myself included, when the morbid details of the drone program and the process behind it first came to light

How do you mess up THAT badly enough to kill over a hundred civilians though? :x

The whole "precision strike" stuff is usually BS,there's "collateral damage" most of the time anyway
"but but they hate us cause they hate us! They hate our way of life!!"

Obviously, one should never take the word of the Pentagon officials at face value. There is no such thing as a precision or "surgical "airstrike and civilians get killed.

At the same time, we should give credence to the historian and for whatever it may be worth, America does put some value on minimizing civilian casualties. Compared to WWII or Vietnam, US airstrikes are more precise and some measures are taken to reduce civilian casualties.



"War on Terror" and "Protect our freedoms" is and was the biggest load of crap ever. Can't tell me otherwise.

My theory of political economy and defense spending is that each additional dollar of defense spending means an orientation toward more and more special interests.

A small military largely does fulfill the national interest, we do need to protect ourselves. Beyond that though, new military resources exist to help certain sectors, certain companies even the whims of certain, wealthy and well connected, individuals. A rough estimate would have 10% of US military resources protecting the homeland and shipping lane, the other 90% serves the elites and their interests abroad.
 
Just wait until NASA releases Da Real photos from Da Don's inauguration B. Obummer and LIBBIE SNOWFLAKES will be CRYING B.
 
 
Merkel looks like she misses him so damn much, poor lady
laugh.gif
Which on the surface is surprising, given the whole, "got caught spying" thing. Reality is they all do it and they all know it so it's probably not even a huge deal in her eyes.
She was probly texting him half those secrets in 3am talk sessions

"Hiii big head"

"Hi angel"
 
"War on Terror" and "Protect our freedoms" is and was the biggest load of crap ever. Can't tell me otherwise.

Any time the US government has a "war on ______" you should be skeptical :lol



This guy Trump is a whole entire moron bruh. Got (some) Americans lookin stupid as hell right along with him. I hate when people say we look bad or America looks bad.

Nah man. He looks bad and his supporters do. I'm an unwilling participant :lol

They're some major jingoist BS that the govt and MIC spewed to get and hold support for war. I'm sure a lot more smart people saw through it but of course you can't say anything about that or else you're a terrorist or hate America. These concepts are so abstract but sound strong so people are fooled.

The only thing threatening our freedoms right now is our current president.
 
I honestly thought Quist would get washed but this is closer than expected
 
I honestly thought Quist would get washed but this is closer than expected

NAte SIlver said a 4-8 point win for Gianforte is a great sign for the Democratic National Party

It is looking more and more likely that a high turnout election next year could flip the House.
 
Wasted votes for the 3rd candidate :lol :{


******* 3rd party wastes.

Those libertarians help the Dems in Montana elections a lot. They would be voting GOP otherwise.
Ah, true. I guess I'm so used to 3rd party votes affecting Dems I didn't think that one through. Either way, I really hope Montana sends a country western singer to DC instead of an amateur wrestler.

:rollin

It is Green Party voters that really screw Dems on a national level. And at time independent liberals do it on a state and local level

Libertarians have already made their deal with the conservative and white supremacist devils
 
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I honestly thought Quist would get washed but this is closer than expected

NAte SIlver said a 4-8 point win for Gianforte is a great sign for the Democratic National Party

It is looking more and more likely that a high turnout election next year could flip the House.
We need more punchable liberal reporters out there in every red district next year
 
I honestly thought Quist would get washed but this is closer than expected

NAte SIlver said a 4-8 point win for Gianforte is a great sign for the Democratic National Party

It is looking more and more likely that a high turnout election next year could flip the House.
We need more punchable liberal reporters out there in every red district next year

I wonder if Cenk Uygur is down to get Pedigreed in Georgia to bring it home for Ossoff
 
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I honestly thought Quist would get washed but this is closer than expected

NAte SIlver said a 4-8 point win for Gianforte is a great sign for the Democratic National Party

It is looking more and more likely that a high turnout election next year could flip the House.
We need more punchable liberal reporters out there in every red district next year

I wonder if Cenk Uygur is down to get Pedigreed in Georgia to bring it home for Ossoff
:rollin
 
Reading that Betsy Devil article, a very threatening word the GOP has been using is choice.

The phrase of school "choice" is reminiscent of the "choice" that was brought up a lot in the ACHA proposals. Ryan, Cruz, and the GOP would always talk about having more "choices" for healthcare, versus the "restrictive mandates" of the ACA. They create an association of the word choice with freedom, in the same way they lie to the public that regulations on businesses are harmful because its big government stripping away freedom.

Reminds me of when Bernie went in on Cruz talking about "access" and "choice":
"You have access, but you don't have enough money," he told a small-business owner with whom the two had spoken earlier. "You have access right now, go out and get a really great health insurance program. Oh, you can't do it because you can't afford it. That's what [Cruz] is saying." 

"Oh, you want to go out and buy one of Donald Trump's mansions?" he continued. "You have access to that as well. Oh, you can't afford $5 million for a house? Sorry. Access doesn't mean a damn thing!"
They sell people freedom, but ironically take it away from them by weakening the government's ability to stand for them against corporate power.
 
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Quist only lost by 7% today in a state known to be a GOP stronghold.

We may have a chance in 2018
 
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