***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[osh kosh bosh]

wait so... wikileaks is only bad when Republicans benefit? Manning is like da ghostwriter Quentin Miller to Drake's Julian...

This argument would make sense if Chelsea Mannings leaks hurt a republican president. Obama was president went the leaks were happening so theoretically they also benifitted republicsn.



The real question is that Obama white house has been so anti leaker, and aggressive so. why does Chealsea Manning get commuted but not Snowden and others.

 

[RustyShackleford]

wait so... wikileaks is only bad when Republicans benefit? Manning is like da ghostwriter Quentin Miller to Drake's Julian...

This argument would make sense if Chelsea Mannings leaks hurt a republican president. Obama was president went the leaks were happening so theoretically they also benifitted republicsn.



The real question is that Obama white house has been so anti leaker, and aggressive so. why does Chealsea Manning get commuted but not Snowden and others.

Obama said he would not consider pardoning anyone that hasn't gone threw the court system already.

So basically, since Snowden didn't stand trial, he is not getting considered.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I can't blame Assange and Snowden for what they did. Barrack Obama ruthlessly used the Espionage act and he had Manning thrown in dungeon so why on Earth would Snowden or Assange be so foolish as to surrender themselves to US Justice.

Either you kill those two guys or you pardon them but the middle way (which Obama and most moderate Dems are obsessed with) was to leave to back two guys into a corner, two guys who have dirt on you who are now dependent on Vladimir Putin for their protection and survival.

Your first obligation is to yourself and not Obama's legacy or Hillary election chances. If I were in their shoes, my first priority is to not be tortured for decades by the US government.

Well then I hope Putin works out for both for them.

---------------

-Ayway, I have much more sympathy for Snowden than Assange. I don't think the two of them should be spoken about like they are two peas in a pod.

 

[Belgium]

wait so... wikileaks is only bad when Republicans benefit? Manning is like da ghostwriter Quentin Miller to Drake's Julian...

I take no major issue with the idea of leaking DNC documents. I take issue with Assange stating they have dirt on Trump as well but chosing not to release it while strategically releasing information on the DNC.
He later retracted that statement.
If they had both then they should have released both. In one go.
By not releasing the Trump files and retracting that statement, Assange demonstrated clear partisanship.

 

[Belgium]

Sen. Franken is doing the good work in the hearing

 

[celticspride34]

Paul Lepage makes me embarrassed to live in Maine...

https://apnews.com/d9912ab291304cb7...ow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=APEastRegion

 

[RustyShackleford]

Smoothie and D-Money need to get their mans

 

[rexanglorum]

Well then I hope Putin works out for both for them.

---------------

-Ayway, I have much more sympathy for Snowden than Assange. I don't think the two of them should be spoken about like they are two peas in a pod.

For the sake of brevity I merged them but yes, they are pretty different.


More importantly, this is part of a pattern where the Obama White House would split the difference between conservatives and his liberal base, produce an outcome that is suboptimal and then hope that American institutions and the American public will be kind to him because he was so moderate.

Again, you need to wrap up those loose ends. You kill people who have dirt on you or you offer them conditional clemency, you do not wait for the problem to resolve itself.

That was the problem with the Obama administration, loose ends every where. Bail out Wall Street but leave Main street to fend for itself, give Republican governors the option to take medicaid expansion and assume they would never turn it down, meekly accept the theft of a Supreme Court Seat and wait for Hillary to get elected.

Yes, he faced vicious, white supremacist headwinds but you tack into those winds with political hardball. Instead he hoped that the winds would eventually understand and appreciate his moderation and become favorable again. Now the ship of state has crashed into a reef and we are all sinking now.

 

[trueprada]

 

[Belgium]

Sen. Warren turning the heat on in the Devos hearing

 

[RustyShackleford]

Well then I hope Putin works out for both for them.

---------------

-Ayway, I have much more sympathy for Snowden than Assange. I don't think the two of them should be spoken about like they are two peas in a pod.

For the sake of brevity I merged them but yes, they are pretty different.


More importantly, this is part of a pattern where the Obama White House would split the difference between conservatives and his liberal base, produce an outcome that is suboptimal and then hope that American institutions and the American public will be kind to him because he was so moderate.

Again, you need to wrap up those loose ends. You kill people who have dirt on you or you offer them conditional clemency, you do not wait for the problem to resolve itself.

That was the problem with the Obama administration, loose ends every where. Bail out Wall Street but leave Main street to fend for itself, give Republican governors the option to take medicaid expansion and assume they would never turn it down, meekly accept the theft of a Supreme Court Seat and wait for Hillary to get elected.

Yes, he faced vicious, white supremacist headwinds but you tack into those winds with political hardball. Instead he hoped that the winds would eventually understand and appreciate his moderation and become favorable again. Now the ship of state has crashed into a reef and we are all sinking now.

For the sake of brevity.

Please list the 60 Senators that would have backed his progressive plays

I would love to hear it.

I am pretty much done with entertaining this talking point that his Obama had just dug his heels in, people like Lieberman would bend to his will. And the super majority was around for like 74 days, and he lost it completely within a year.

This all happened with white nationalist calling for his head on the National Mall. And when this happened, when white supremacy flared up the most, progressives couldn't be damb to give Obama cover, and libertarians thought their time had arrived so any mention of the racism with the movement was dismissed as a deflection

And tell me, how many of his executive orders were struck down in courts

So please explain to me, what exactly he should of done. Please when progressive like you and Bernie say **** like this, I think you feel you are being reasonable, but all I hear is demands that Obama should have been a political magical negro.

 

[rexanglorum]

For the sake of brevity.

Please list the 60 Senators that would have backed his progressive plays

I would love to hear it.

I don't know if he could get 60 Senators to go along enthusiastically but when you apply pressure, you may be able to get those votes. When you raise the opportunity cost for being an obstructionist high enough, you can make folks see things your way.

You hold the f-35 program hostage, you hold those disability checks hostage, you hold farm subsidies hostage. You make conservative constituencies feel real pain from austerity. You make them understand that cutting government does not just mean cutting aid to people of color.

When you bring a knife to gun fight, you certainly will lose. When you bring a gun to a gun fight you are not guaranteed a win but you have a better chance than if you bring a knife.

 

[RustyShackleford]

For the sake of brevity.

Please list the 60 Senators that would have backed his progressive plays

I would love to hear it.

I don't know if he could get 60 Senators to go along enthusiastically but when you apply pressure, you may be able to get those votes. When you raise the opportunity cost for being an obstructionist high enough, you can make folks see things your way.

You hold the f-35 program hostage, you hold those disability checks hostage, you hold farm subsidies hostage. You make conservative constituencies feel real pain from austerity. You make them understand that cutting government does not just mean cutting aid to people of color.

When you bring a knife to gun fight, you certainly will lose. When you bring a gun to a gun fight you are not guaranteed a win but you have a better chance than if you bring a knife.

So when Obama was being attacked for being a authoritarian socialist, and no one in his ******* party had the guts to stand up to those attacks. He should of actaed like more of a authoritarian, And committed political suicide?

And Really Rex, disability checks. Also If those farm subsidies get held up, so do food stamps. So the strategy should have been that Obama should have tried to discipline conservatives, and that would have stopped all the sws that swept the GOP to victory in 2010, and energized democrats in 2014. You really think that is the best course of action.

And we are talking about the same Democrats that their major complaint about Obama is that he didn't out the White House and kiss their *** enough to force them to do their job.

You know full well that some members of the party where Blue Dogs and felt they needed to by deficit hawks, or were locks in their State and so bought that it didn't matter what Obama threatened. But yeah, he should have tried harder. He faced an unprecedented amount of disrespect and obstructionism but it would have been easier if in the those few days he had a super-majority, if he just tried harder.

 

[gry60]

Sen. Warren turning the heat on in the Devos hearing

She's an awful pick.

 

[aepps20]

Smoothie and D-Money need to get their mans

What about Shifty, Da White Girls and Da Heightz?

 

[rexanglorum]

I am not asking him to be magical I am asking that he be like Lyndon Johnson and apply pressure directly on truculent States and districts. I am asking that he use his considerable campaigning skills to be like Ronald Reagan and go over the heads of obstructionist congressmen.

Maybe that would still fail to break the blockade of obstruction but at least you'd know that you did everything that you could.

Barrack Obama knew that Republican constituencies get more welfare than do Democratic constituencies and he never even dared to mess with Republican welfare while Republicans vicious attacked the modest programs that help Democratic constituencies. The deal could have been something like "for every dollar you guys take from WIC, I expect two dollars be taken from farm subsidies and I will not sign a budget unless you make those adjustments."

In a better world, Republicans would have worked with President Obama and his moderation and restraint would have been rewarded. Sadly, we are not in that environment and the Obama White House just never matched the intensity and urgency of the conservatives.

 

[ninjahood]

For the sake of brevity.

Please list the 60 Senators that would have backed his progressive plays

I would love to hear it.

I don't know if he could get 60 Senators to go along enthusiastically but when you apply pressure, you may be able to get those votes. When you raise the opportunity cost for being an obstructionist high enough, you can make folks see things your way.

You hold the f-35 program hostage, you hold those disability checks hostage, you hold farm subsidies hostage. You make conservative constituencies feel real pain from austerity. You make them understand that cutting government does not just mean cutting aid to people of color.

When you bring a knife to gun fight, you certainly will lose. When you bring a gun to a gun fight you are not guaranteed a win but you have a better chance than if you bring a knife.

So when Obama was being attacked for being a authoritarian socialist, and no one in his ******* party had the guts to stand up to those attacks. He should of actaed like more of a authoritarian, And committed political suicide?

And Really Rex, disability checks. Also If those farm subsidies get held up, so do food stamps. So the strategy should have been that Obama should have tried to discipline conservatives, and that would have stopped all the sws that swept the GOP to victory in 2010, and energized democrats in 2014. You really think that is the best course of action.

And we are talking about the same Democrats that their major complaint about Obama is that he didn't out the White House and kiss their *** enough to force them to do their job.

You know full well that some members of the party where Blue Dogs and felt they needed to by deficit hawks, or were locks in their State and so bought that it didn't matter what Obama threatened. But yeah, he should have tried harder. He faced an unprecedented amount of disrespect and obstructionism but it would have been easier if in the those few days he had a super-majority, if he just tried harder.

Rusty with da awareness of da limits of Obama's liberal power range to applicable governing in congress. rico x hood would be proud.

to add to da point, Blue dogs and Joe Liberman ripped da public option outta Obamacare...da mutiny started in-house...you already know da GOP wasn't gonna move, so threatening em would've done nothing but embolden da opposition, strategically his easier route would've been to Sheppard da bill...not sit back and play shot caller while Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid did all da work.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I am not asking him to be magical I am asking that he be like Lyndon Johnson and apply pressure directly on truculent States and districts. I am asking that he use his considerable campaigning skills to be like Ronald Reagan and go over the heads of obstructionist congressmen.

Maybe that would still fail to break the blockade of obstruction but at least you'd know that you did everything that you could.

Barrack Obama knew that Republican constituencies get more welfare than do Democratic constituencies and he never even dared to mess with Republican welfare while Republicans vicious attacked the modest programs that help Democratic constituencies. The deal could have been something like "for every dollar you guys take from WIC, I expect two dollars be taken from farm subsidies and I will not sign a budget unless you make those adjustments."

In a better world, Republicans would have worked with President Obama and his moderation and restraint would have been rewarded. Sadly, we are not in that environment and the Obama White House just never matched the intensity and urgency of the conservatives.

Yes you are, yes you are asking him to be magical.

In one breath (you can check you some of your previous post) you admit the political landscape is completely different than when LBJ and Reagan were cooking. In another breath you concede that he face a level of white supremacy unseen by any other president. Then your response to this is for him to simply try harder. Also concede that it that his efforts could not have worked.

So he should have simply used tactics of days gone by, to counter a phenomenon that no other president has ever faced. Sorry, sound nice on paper, but that is about it.

-And once again, why is it that the go to strategy of people that complain about being weak is to suggest Obama to to sink to the same level and Republicans. Like the hell the GOP unleashes minorities is so tolerable that giving a dose to poor white is cool. That shutting down the government for something you will most likely have to compromise on when your party turns on you is also cool.

Let us be honest here. The GOP doesn't give a **** about the economic well being of its base. The GOP are ready and willing to destroy the economic base right from under them, and "da base" votes them in anyway without missing a beat. Obama attacking the GOP's rich base would have not worked. Threaten farm subsidies, then we hear about about increasing food prices. Shut down a defense contract, Obama is putting our nation at risk.

I can just see the conga line of progressives talking about the concerns of the ,wait for the unintentional dog whistle, "working class person" needs to be considered.

And in this world you want me to believe should have happened, Obama doesn't pay a political cost for these actions. All the white anger that was brewing doesn't spill over x100 than what it did.

 

[gry60]

School teachers blowing up the CSpan line. Nobody has expressed support for DeVos yet.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Blue Dogs in the House did nothing to the public option. It passed the house.

Libermann and some other dude I forgot his name held it up in the Senate.

 

[rexanglorum]

First of all, I do not think that President Obama was lazy. He had too much faith in others and institutions.

Yes you are, yes you are asking him to be magical.

In one breath (you can check you some of your previous post) you admit the political landscape is completely different than when LBJ and Reagan were cooking. In another breath you concede that he face a level of white supremacy unseen by any other president. Then your response to this is for him to simply try harder. Also to tacitly concede that it that his efforts could not have worked.

So he should have simply used tactics of days gone by, to counter a phenomenon that no other president has ever faced. Sorry, sound nice on paper, but that is about it.

-And once again, why is it that the go to strategy of people that complain about being weak is to suggest Obama to to sink to the same level and Republicans. Like the hell the GOP unleashes minorities is so tolerable that giving a dose to poor white, is cool. That shutting down the government for something you will most likely have to compromise on when your party turns on you, is cool.

And in this world you want me to believe should have happened, Obama doesn't pay a political cost for these actions. At the white anger that was brewing doesn't spill over.

Look, I want want white people to have fear and not joy when their representatives start going on about "cutting spending." Poor white people, middle class white people, rich white people get to live the fiction that they are industrious, thrifty and sober farmers and shop keeps whose taxes go entirely to undeserving minorities.

You know that "cutting spending" has become a dog whistle. I just wish that Barack Obama would make austerity mean austerity for everyone and not just "those people."

 

[MVP]

Guns allowed in schools because of a potential bear attack? Yo this clown Drumpf really nominated every single person who would do the absolute worst job.

 

[IATT]

 

[osh kosh bosh]

@keithboykin
Sen. Al Franken discovers Trump Education Secretary nominee Betsy DeVos doesn't know the difference between proficiency and growth.

I too was unaware of the difference between proficiency and growth, but I'm no one oppointed me to run the dept. of education.

 

[ninjahood]

Blue Dogs in the House did nothing to the public option. It passed the house.

Libermann and some other dude I forgot his name held it up in the Senate.

that would be a guy by da name of Ben Nelson.