***Official Political Discussion Thread***

[noskey]

What's funny is that conservatives are probably gonna sue to block this too.

If the Supreme Court blocks this, man that would suck

Angry college-educated debt-laden leftists angry 4chan-educated gun-laden Trumpists

>Overthrowing the Supreme Court

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Dems been pushing for 50K he's at 10K the loans have been paused going on 2 years since he took office. If they've been getting by on not having all the revenue from the over 1.5 trillion that's in debt now, is inflation really what's stopping him from delivering on the one thing that is not only a political win and layup but common sense given the frivolous spending that goes on in Washington daily? Like this is a stroke of the pen thing he could do, correct?

I hope you guys get as much debt forgiven as possible.

but I think there is a liiiitle bit of wishcasting this idea its a no brainer political win.
I don't think it's not hard to imagine a world where it's an L.

 

[MVP]

I hope you guys get as much debt forgiven as possible.

but I think there is a liiiitle bit of wishcasting this idea its a no brainer political win.
it's not hard to imagine a world where it's an L.

Dems in general are hemoraging support with the millennials, one could realistically surmise that this would be a political win to re-engage that section that they desperately need for midterms. But maybe things are too far gone at this point.

 

[noskey]

Here we go....

 

[RustyShackleford]

Dems in general are hemoraging support with the millennials, one could realistically surmise that this would be a political win to re-engage that section that they desperately need for midterms. But maybe things are too far gone at this point.

Where are to getting this from? Sure Biden is unpopular with young voters right now, but that is a bit different than what cost them at the ballot box

I think the Dems most significant issues are with Latinos (newer issues), Rural voters (long-standing issue), and most importantly non-college-educated voters.

Most voters didn't go to college

So yeah, the Dems are going to do this high-profile thing that doesn't help the class of voters they are losing traction with, that they need to win elections but won't benefit from loan forgiveness.

That presents political downside

 

[gry60]

It is wrong for people make demands of Biden that should be made of Congress.

LOL, most folks can't tell you who does what in DC.

People need to keep some perspective here.

People need to do some learning about how their government works.

their constituents either paid for college straight cash homie or didn't go anywhere near college, no skin off their backs

Yup.

Not hard to imagine how this is going to be spun as the college grad who majored in basket weaving taking money from the hardworking taxpayer who went in the trades/military after high school.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Dems in general are hemoraging support with the millennials, one could realistically surmise that this would be a political win to re-engage that section that they desperately need for midterms. But maybe things are too far gone at this point.

im just telling you to consider the possibility your a tad bit biased
and not totally seeing this clearly.

I hope you get your debt forgiven. but sometimes the things you want
are also politically inconvenient but you want them anyways.

and that's okay.

 

[red dune]

I can't find the loan forgiveness statute from 2010, but the IRS clause was at the end of the section on forgiveness section. I concede the point until I can find the statute..

It's driving me nuts because I can remeber one of my professors was talking about it with our class because he overheard some students saying we're are booked in 20-25 years

 

[wavycrocket]

There is a growing anti-dem sentiment right now amongst millennials. MVP is right about that.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

as a Canadian,

the american higher education system and culture is probably second only to gun laws
as an insane uniquely american thing.

my girl is in fine arts and spends some time in NYC,
she meets so many aspiring painters or sculptors doing 100k masters at Parsons it's sick


no way any job they get will pay that off and the chances of being a successful enough artist to pay that off, you might as well scratch lotto tickets.

it's nasty.

 

[gry60]

I think the Dems most significant issues are with Latinos (newer issues), Rural voters (long-standing issue), and most importantly non-college-educated voters.

When I think about it, Democrats kinda dug their own grave over the last 30-40 years by not emphasizing the necessity to keep college education cheap. Universities might be non-profit entities, but they definitely advertise themselves and justify their rising costs within a capitalist framework: "get a degree from us, and your lifetime earning potential will skyrocket. You are making a financial investment in future You."

We've ended up with access to college education that has decreased year after year, first because of cost, and later because of the relentless smear campaigns of the political right, which benefits the most from skilled workers who are uneducated about history, civics, what it means to be informed (listening to AM radio and watching Alex Jones from dawn to dusk is not it), and how that helps you be a better citizen.

 

[sneeker]

as a Canadian,

the american higher education system and culture is probably second only to gun laws
as an insane uniquely american thing.

my girl is in fine arts and spends some time in NYC,
she meets so many aspiring painters or sculptors doing 100k masters at Parsons it's sick


no way any job they get will pay that off and the chances of being a successful enough artist to pay that off, you might as well scratch lotto tickets.

it's nasty.

higher education is big business in the U.S. and it's a sham. not sure why the younger generation think that they would be able to have return investment close to that amount. unless if you are an awesome athlete, talented, have connections and sugar daddies, then that won't be a problem at all.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

i feel really bad for art kids especially i was one once,

fancy schools,
especially in the arts with MFA's really prey on peoples hopes and dreams.

I read this article about columbia charging 181k for a screenwriting MFA.

‘Financially Hobbled for Life’: The Elite Master’s Degrees That Don’t Pay Off

Lured by the aura of degrees from top-flight institutions, many master’s students at universities across the U.S. took on debt beyond what their pay would support, an analysis of federal data on borrowers found.

www.wsj.com

working in film I can tell you the jump this is 100% a total waste of money
it should be illegal imo to even offer this.

and it tells me the people who come up with these programs are 100% scammers.
they are just trying to extract money from people.

and only way this jig can happen is with government backed loans.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Community colleges and public state universities (for in-state students) still provide good value

But yeah, there is a ton of scamming going on in higher education.

Like please tell me why Georgia Tech can charge under 10K for Masters degrees in Computer Science and Analytics. But a bunch of other schools wants to tax people 40K and going

 

[Air Champa]

I wouldn't doubt some right wingers secretly being happy about 10K in student loan forgiveness. I certainly didn't see any of them sending those stimie checks back.

I promise anyone only making 30K a year that's trying to go to school or have kids who're trying to pay for college ain't complaining. If you go to a cheaper state school, 10K ain't chump change either.

 

[elpablo21]

I'll never look at Top Gun the same

 

[MVP]

There is a growing anti-dem sentiment right now amongst millennials. MVP is right about that.

I'm sure there are numerous articles chronically the ineffectiveness of what this administration and Congress in general has done or rather not done. Sure would it be nice to get my student loans canceled sure, but I'm not looking at this from strictly my point of view. The inequality in wealth is steadily rising, this is the first generation in a long time to be worse off than their parents, we can't seem to get traction on climate change legislation while reproductive rights, civil rights and everything under the sun is being under attack. I get there are common sense and financial ramifications for everything, but you got a lot of ppl who did come out and vote for the Dems who are way less enthusiastic about doing it again and it's not just reflected in Biden's support numbers. Dems always seem to operate from what it will look like to the other side or how it would spin instead of actually trying to follow through on anything they say. I don't think that's conducive and sustainable cause the GOP don't give a damn once they get in power, they'll do whatever they can to push through their trash agenda.

 

[RustyShackleford]

I'm sure there are numerous articles chronically the ineffectiveness of what this administration and Congress in general has done or rather not done. Sure would it be nice to get my student loans canceled sure, but I'm not looking at this from strictly my point of view. The inequality in wealth is steadily rising, this is the first generation in a long time to be worse off than their parents, we can't seem to get traction on climate change legislation while reproductive rights, civil rights and everything under the sun is being under attack. I get there are common sense and financial ramifications for everything, but you got a lot of ppl who did come out and vote for the Dems who are way less enthusiastic about doing it again and it's not just reflected in Biden's support numbers. Dems always seem to operate from what it will look like to the other side or how it would spin instead of actually trying to follow through on anything they say. I don't think that's conducive and sustainable cause the GOP don't give a damn once they get in power, they'll do whatever they can to push through their trash agenda.

Huh?

Joe Biden tried to follow through with his promises, he had the support of most of his party, but he didn't have enough votes

These "Dems need to do something" pleas need to be grounded in political reality

 

[Wargames]

What's funny is that conservatives are probably gonna sue to block this too.

If the Supreme Court blocks this, man that would suck

Yes, its one of the reasons they renewed on a lot of people who are in default and made their loans viable for forgiveness. In effect this 10k is nice for people who completed college but this should cover the majority of people who fail out their first semester or first year unless they went to the most expensive schools. Also if people went to say a public college for undergrad this is a big chunk. The messaging on this should be a easy lift and we could see Dems for congress running on 50k or total forgiveness next based on them getting enough seats.

Conservatives blocking this is going to get a lot of people pissed. A lot more nongraduates will benefit from 10k than actual graduates.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

I'm sure there are numerous articles chronically the ineffectiveness of what this administration and Congress in general has done or rather not done. Sure would it be nice to get my student loans canceled sure, but I'm not looking at this from strictly my point of view. The inequality in wealth is steadily rising, this is the first generation in a long time to be worse off than their parents, we can't seem to get traction on climate change legislation while reproductive rights, civil rights and everything under the sun is being under attack. I get there are common sense and financial ramifications for everything, but you got a lot of ppl who did come out and vote for the Dems who are way less enthusiastic about doing it again and it's not just reflected in Biden's support numbers. Dems always seem to operate from what it will look like to the other side or how it would spin instead of actually trying to follow through on anything they say. I don't think that's conducive and sustainable cause the GOP don't give a damn once they get in power, they'll do whatever they can to push through their trash agenda.

i mean...it's a 50/50 senate fam.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Y'all can say that forgiving student loans are the morally right thing to do without trying to come up with theories about how beneficially it will be politically for the Dems, that to me sound like a ton of wishful thinking

 

[MVP]

Joe Biden tried to follow through with his promises, he had the support of most of his party, but he didn't have enough votes

These "Dems need to do something" pleas need to be grounded in political reality

But that's the thing you can't have a couple of senators in your own party to basically be controlling everything. You build yourself as the uniter who can reach across and yet haven't seen that either. Yes I know the GOP doesn't operate in good faith.

You can say it's not grounded in political reality, but saying that the sentiment isn't out there that the Dems haven't done enough or look like they can even get on the same page, amongst a key segment that they literally can't afford to lose any more support in, well that just is the reality right now.

Again this is not limited to just student loan forgiveness, but that was a huge sell when he was running for office and that's what's prevalent right now in this moment.

 

[RustyShackleford]

But that's the thing you can't have a couple of senators in your own party to basically be controlling everything.

You can say it's not grounded in political reality, but saying that the sentiment isn't out there that the Dems haven't done enough or look like they can even get on the same page, amongst a key segment that they literally can't afford to lose any more support in, well that just is the reality right now.

What is the solutions to that?

Alienate them until they switch parties and hand the majority to the GOP?

Dems can't afford to lose any support in a bunch of demographics. They are a large diverse coalition. But most importantly, with non-college-educated voters. People without student loan debt/ Yes it is unfair in some ways, but unfortunately that is the reality of the situation

I get it is frustrating, but I see a problem with an argument that expects me to ignore political reality.

People can feel how they want, but that Dems can't pass legislation on vibes. They need votes

And too many people staying home has cost them too many close elections in an elector5al system that robs the Democratic Party and its voters of 6 Senate seats, 18 House seats, and being able to win the White House with 50% of the vote.

 

[gry60]

If you know this:

Yes I know the GOP doesn't operate in good faith

you know why this

reach across [the aisle]

is impossible.

That's the political reality. Gotta factor that in your assessment of where we are after two years into the Biden administration.

 

[RustyShackleford]

But that's the thing you can't have a couple of senators in your own party to basically be controlling everything. You build yourself as the uniter who can reach across and yet haven't seen that either. Yes I know the GOP doesn't operate in good faith.

You can say it's not grounded in political reality, but saying that the sentiment isn't out there that the Dems haven't done enough or look like they can even get on the same page, amongst a key segment that they literally can't afford to lose any more support in, well that just is the reality right now.

Again this is not limited to just student loan forgiveness, but that was a huge sell when he was running for office and that's what's prevalent right now in this moment.

Joe Biden didn't promise to use executive action to forgive student loans though