OFFICIAL NEW YORK KNICKS OFFSEASON THREAD: TRAINING CAMP

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by J Steezzz

im not but it has happened before so u cant help but think the worst dude

Yeah but that was when we head Scott Layden the worst drafter and probably overall GM in the history of the NBA. I mean Donnie has made some terrificmoves in his career, he aint no fool.

Even Isiah was never that bad in the draft, the only thin that i can kind of scrutinize him for (drafting wise) since has been on the Knicks was Balkman at #20and Collins at #29. Balkman was a steal but i felt like we should have taken a PG with #20, there was so many quality PGs available and than we could havegotten Balkman (who nobody had even heard about) at #29. Lie lets say with 20 we could have gotten Rondo or Sergio Rodriguez (i wanted one of them at that picknot a big fan of Marcus Williams but damn he still an upgrade over Collins IMO) and than at #29 we could have gotten Balkman.

But i have no complaints about Channing Frye at #8 i k now he did not work out with us but i still say he was a quality pick and was one of the most valuedrookies that year and if we were smarter we c\should have dealt him when his value was high (*cough*Eddy Curry*cough*) and than Nate was a great pick IMO andDavid Lee was one of the biggest steals of this decade at #30. And obviously right now i have no complaints with Wilson Chandler.

But not to give Isiah full credit if he wasnt such a @*#$!+! moron and didnt trade all of our lottery picks we could have some beasts on our team right nowlike Brandon Roy if we had that #2 pick that year

and needless to say he has been god awful in FA and as our ovrall Pres/GM/Coach

 

[the gr8]

Derrick Rose is in

Havent seen anything online yet but i just saw it on Sportcenters bottom line

And here is a quote that just #%%%*%% pissed me off and game me more of an understanding that Isiah is a #%%%*%% moron

"As Denzel (Washington) told me," Isiah said, " 'You're going to get the Bronx cheer.' If this is the bottom, with a sold-out housetonight, in the last game, then New York is a great town.

"And in a strange kind of way I'm honored to get the Bronx cheer. Because everybody gets it. If this is the worst, this ain't bad."

Yeah this really isnt that #%%%*%% bad. Losing isnt that #%%%*%% bad?! This man is a #%%%*%% disgrace to this whole city and to think that thisman dissed thechampions that played their hearts out every night back in the 1990s? Pa #%%%*%% thetic. I hope this man gets a permanent ban from the city he disgraced. Afterhis final home game last night i hope he never steps a foot back in our #%%%*%% city. i hope Walsh flies back to Indiana after tomorrow's finale and fireshim there and Isiah never steps a foot back in NY.

 

[j steezzz]

with the 2nd pick in the 2008 NBA draft, the New York Knicks select.......

 

[nyk orange and blue]

..........frederic weiss

 

[krisp kicks]

I may be wrong, but I remember reading this week that Walsh was NOT considering Mark Jackson for the Head Coaching job, but was trying to see if he could fitinto the front office, either as GM or a similar role. So for those of you hoping for him as coach, I don't think it's gonna happen. I'm prayingfor us to be able to draft Rose.

 

[the gr8]

^^nah yo you got that in reverse.

Walsh despite rumors was not considering jackson in the front office but he will highly consider him as the head coach.

EDIT: here is a realgm article that states that as well...

Walsh Will Interview King And Sund For GM Post
April 12, 2008 - 11:45 pm
New York Daily News -
Donnie Walsh plans to interview Billy King and Rick Sund about the Knicks' GM post, the Daily News has learned.

Isiah Thomas is not expected to remain GM, and Mark Jackson is a candidate to be their head coach, not as a front office executive.

 

[blackmagnus514]

i still dont see what qualifies Jackson has a head coach. he's cerebral of course...but he doesnt strike me as someone who commands respect. VanGundy/Riley would be PERFECT for this band of degenerates.

Bring Back Jeff!!!!!

 

[krisp kicks]

ESPN or NY Times led me astray then...

Oh well I would like to see him involved at some capacity in the organization, but I kinda agree with the above post...JVG might be able to whip this bunchinto shape, he did accomplish more with less in NY last time around. Maybe Mark Jackson would be good, it's hard for me to have an opinion as a coachthough, with nothing to base it on.

 

[the gr8]

^^i would love to bring back Jeff... but lets face it there is 0 chance of that happening.

I think Jeff would be a great fit because he has a great work ethic and he knows how to put his players into shape, and most importantly he always stresses D.For example if Jeff was our head coach i think he can turn a guy like Nate with his super athletisism into the defensive force at PG that he should/can be ifIsiah worked more with him on it rather than have 20 minute shoot arounds as practice like he has done for the past 2 months, he would also work well with ourother young guys like David Lee. He always connected well with his guys because he has always had the players respect.

But right now we cant get that and we are going to have to rebuild. So if we are going to rebuild i thinkk it is the perfect time to bring up Mark Jackson as acoach. He is youg and as Patrick Ewing said "He is from New York and has that New York swagger." (not to mention we will finally have Pat on theKnicks bench because it is a disgrace that he is not there already and maybe that will finally end the curse brought upon is by trading him.) He will bringenergy from ou young players and he is a ver good and smart Xs and Os guys and he will do an excllent job developingg our young guys... especially PGs (ROSE...and even Nate) I know tha he is the guy we need. he is onexperienced but that can be taken care of in our rebuilding years awhen we start winning he will knowthe game and how it goes. I mean i knew guys like him and Avery would be coaches when they retired in their playing years along with some other guys, buthonestly dating back to when those guys were playing together i always thought Jackson would be the best coach for his knowledge of the game.

I really want Mark Jackson as outr next coach but the point i am really trying to make is not to bring in another big name as our next coach. We have a youngteam and need to rebuild. Bringing in a Larry Brown (an established veteran coach) like before is not gonna work., skiles cannot coach this team because he hasbeen in the L for too long and he needs things his own way, he is a disciplinarian. On the other hand a guy like Jackson has 0 experience so he can pick upthings along the way and play woth his style a little for it to be best for the time. So what i am trying to say that if it is not Jackson, dont go after aSkiles, etc. Go after a young assistant who has done a nice job and is ready to start his career on the next level like the guy in Boston and some others. Ormaybe just save some money and just promote Herb Williams as the coach while we rebuild and let him prove he is capable to be a head coach for the future.

 

[typerpinoy]

ive said it a million times....we've had coaches that "command respect"...LB is one of the greatest coaches in the game....lenny wilkens is thewinningest coach in NBA history and couldnt command respect from these guys...why not go out on a limb? and how does mark jackson NOT command respect? as aplayer he was a leader on and off the court. there's not a knicks fan in the world who doesnt crack a smile just thinking about every time he would dropthat tear drop or one of those rare dunks of his and do the helicopter down the court or the jackson shimmy.

action is by far the best candidate for this job. he's young and will be able to relate to these guys more than anyone out there.

 

[the gr8]

^^good points pretty much sums up what i said in the above post. We need to get a fresh new coach.

 

[justhotkicks]

action is by far the best candidate for this job. he's young and will be able to relate to these guys more than anyone out there.

Agreed.
The players have changed, and therefore, coaches need to change. A 25-year-old today seems "younger" than a 25-year-old in the 90's, and thedisciplinarian is becoming more and more ineffective. A "player's coach" is a better fit; younger, willingness to be flexible, maintainingfriendships while being the superior. That's why guys like Sam Mitchell, Doc Rivers, Byron Scott, Mo Cheeks, and Eddie Jordan have had success. There arestill coaches who demand a lot (Gregg Pop), but the Spurs are like a 90's team.

Isiah Thomas seems like a "player's coach", but he seems to draw a clear line between himself and the players. He doesn't know how tohandle the media (although being in NY can be tough), and most importantly, he can't coach

.

But the coach isn't the entire problem; the Knicks have players who refuse to be coached. The Knicks front office has a lot of work to do. Hopefullywe'll catch a break this June (Rose!).

 

[typerpinoy]

Originally Posted by Krisp Kicks

he did accomplish more with less in NY last time around.

I'm sorry....but have you watched knicks basketball at all in the past 10 years??? JVG did more with less?? thats gotta be the best joke in thisthread.

Ewing = top 50 greatest player, hall of famer

Houston = one of the best shooters of his time

Camby, Starks, Sprewell, Childs, Ward....

JVG got exactly what we expected from this team. He had quality players down the whole bench...players who knew their ROLE...which is exactly what this teamlacks for the most part...but to say he accomplished more with less is completely false....He coached one of the greatest and most talented knicks teams ofall time!!!

 

[mrchery]

damn we need a good pick i cant one more year of this

 

[nyk orange and blue]

Originally Posted by TypeRPinoY

Originally Posted by Krisp Kicks

he did accomplish more with less in NY last time around.

I'm sorry....but have you watched knicks basketball at all in the past 10 years??? JVG did more with less?? thats gotta be the best joke in this thread.

i'm assuming he was talking about during his final days as a knicks coach.....remember Glen Rice?, always on injured reserve marcus camby?,othella harrington at center ?

but if he's talking about the overall career in ny, then

 

[mo matik]

and how does mark jackson NOT command respect? as a player he was a leader on and off the court. there's not a knicks fan in the world who doesnt crack a smile just thinking about every time he would drop that tear drop or one of those rare dunks of his and do the helicopter down the court or the jackson shimmy.

action is by far the best candidate for this job. he's young and will be able to relate to these guys more than anyone out there.
How does he not command respect? The dude has never coached before, thats how he doesn't command respect. You're telling me youwouldn't resent a guy whose coaching you for the first year. Of course you're going to reject the idea and say why is THIS guy teaching ME how to playball. All NBA players think they are the best.

Oh, and a leader on and off the court? Sounds like Zeke to me. NBA careers have no correlation with coaching ability. (see: Thomas, Isiah)

What you gain in a young "hip" coach, you lose in pure coaching ability.

I think at this point, these guys are uncoachable. Being in NY, with all the crap that's going on in the Knicks organization, you would have to take careof all the off the court crap (Marbury, etc.), as well as taking care of the on the court crap (Marbury, etc.) and let loose all those damn contracts.

The Knicks don't have a future as of yet. And if they keep making moves here and there hoping for change it's only going to get worse. At this point,you need to get rid of everyone, and start a new. Hell obviously little changes here and there haven't worked. Zeke has made a hell of a lot of changesto the roster and yet we still suck. That result of sucking will not change, unless we wait...

 

[allen3xis]

I say...

Go ahead and bring in Jackson...

However....PLAY the YOUNG guys.

Start whoever we draft, along with Lee and Chandler for all 82.

He'll command their respect, at least....perhaps Marbury, Curry and Zach are beyond the point of respect and listening.


But the young guys will give it their best and seize the opportunity.

 

[true 3 blue]

I hope Marbury isn't among those casualties we'll see this off season.

 

[allen3xis]

So here's how it goes...

A loss tonight with a LAC loss or win - ahead of them at 5

A win with LAC loss - behind them and end up being #6

A loss and Memphis win - move ahead due to the tiebreaker - 4th

A loss and Memphis loss - stay behind them at 5


So by the end of the night we will be 4th, 5th or 6th.

All signs point to 5th.

 

[true 3 blue]

Denver will rest the starters

 

[mez 0ne]

It doesn't matter how much a coach stressed D, there won't be any defense played unless you have a team leader who enforces what the coaches believe inON THE FLOOR (word to KG). These next two seasons will be lost anyways and a work in progress, so I don't see the point in hiring ANYBODY right now becauseit would be pointless. Let Herb Williams coach the team in the meantime.

 

[typerpinoy]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

and how does mark jackson NOT command respect? as a player he was a leader on and off the court. there's not a knicks fan in the world who doesnt crack a smile just thinking about every time he would drop that tear drop or one of those rare dunks of his and do the helicopter down the court or the jackson shimmy.

action is by far the best candidate for this job. he's young and will be able to relate to these guys more than anyone out there.

How does he not command respect? The dude has never coached before, thats how he doesn't command respect. You're telling me you wouldn't resent a guy whose coaching you for the first year. Of course you're going to reject the idea and say why is THIS guy teaching ME how to play ball. All NBA players think they are the best.

Oh, and a leader on and off the court? Sounds like Zeke to me. NBA careers have no correlation with coaching ability. (see: Thomas, Isiah)

What you gain in a young "hip" coach, you lose in pure coaching ability.

I think at this point, these guys are uncoachable. Being in NY, with all the crap that's going on in the Knicks organization, you would have to take care of all the off the court crap (Marbury, etc.), as well as taking care of the on the court crap (Marbury, etc.) and let loose all those damn contracts.

The Knicks don't have a future as of yet. And if they keep making moves here and there hoping for change it's only going to get worse. At this point, you need to get rid of everyone, and start a new. Hell obviously little changes here and there haven't worked. Zeke has made a hell of a lot of changes to the roster and yet we still suck. That result of sucking will not change, unless we wait...


ever heard of doc rivers? avery johnson? nate mcmillan? these guys never coached before either...and their teams are horrible...they lose 50+ games a yeardont they? oh no wait thats us. everyone else that ppl are talking about wanting to bring in (JVG, Rick Carlisle) all have something in common withAction....none of them have ever won a title. so go out on a limb. There will definitely be improvement with Jackson behind the wheel. GUARANTEED!!!

and isiah a leader off the court? HAHAHAHA yea right...yes zeke has made a lot of changes to the roster and none of them have panned out...he hasnt made 1 goodtrade or signing although the drafts havent gone too bad. i'm sure jackson can get 35 wins out of these same guys with a new philosophy and outlook. b/cobviously what has been going on the past 7 years hasnt worked. although he hasnt won yet, mark knows what it takes. he was on those pacers teams that madedeep runs into the playoffs so it's obvious he's in good with walsh. i would be shocked if he's not named coach before the draft. i think yourewrong when you say jackson is going to teach anyone how to play...i dont think any good coach does that. instead he will utilize his players talents the waythey should be. hes not gonna take balkman and teach him how to shoot 3s...hes gonna use him as a lock down defender and energy guy.

a lot of the off court issues stem from a HORRIBLE player coach relationship and nothing more...getting rid of zeke fixes all those issues instantly

 

[the gr8]

Originally Posted by Mo Matik

and how does mark jackson NOT command respect? as a player he was a leader on and off the court. there's not a knicks fan in the world who doesnt crack a smile just thinking about every time he would drop that tear drop or one of those rare dunks of his and do the helicopter down the court or the jackson shimmy.

action is by far the best candidate for this job. he's young and will be able to relate to these guys more than anyone out there.

How does he not command respect? The dude has never coached before, thats how he doesn't command respect. You're telling me you wouldn't resent a guy whose coaching you for the first year. Of course you're going to reject the idea and say why is THIS guy teaching ME how to play ball. All NBA players think they are the best.

Oh, and a leader on and off the court? Sounds like Zeke to me. NBA careers have no correlation with coaching ability. (see: Thomas, Isiah)

What you gain in a young "hip" coach, you lose in pure coaching ability.

I think at this point, these guys are uncoachable. Being in NY, with all the crap that's going on in the Knicks organization, you would have to take care of all the off the court crap (Marbury, etc.), as well as taking care of the on the court crap (Marbury, etc.) and let loose all those damn contracts.

The Knicks don't have a future as of yet. And if they keep making moves here and there hoping for change it's only going to get worse. At this point, you need to get rid of everyone, and start a new. Hell obviously little changes here and there haven't worked. Zeke has made a hell of a lot of changes to the roster and yet we still suck. That result of sucking will not change, unless we wait...



yheres a difference though Isiah was a mad nice bball player but he does not ahve the knowledge that Mark had at the point. i mean here is a guy who cant shoota 3, is neither fast nor athletic but he was still a starting PG and succeeded greatly including his ROY award with the Knicks solely because he was a greatleader and one of the smartest players of his generation.

how can you say he wont earn respect? Avery Johnson spent half a year as the Mavs assistant and than took over that year, and they had a MUCH oder team, andduring that time he finally tought that team how to play D (which they never did before) and led them to the finals, the next year he won COY. And whileJacvkson and Avery were still playing i always thought Mark would be the better coach, he was smarter and a better leader.

And what about Frank with the Nets. Here was a little white dude who looks like he is 16, never was an assistant at all in his time, had a veterann team withhigh expectations that he took over in the middle of yhe year. And during his first season (when he took over in the middle of the year) he led them on a like15 game WS right away only to lose to Minnesota (who if you remember had the KG/ Spree (

@@%+*@$ Layden traded him for VH

)/ Cassell combo and had thebest record in the L) and than if i yemember properly he took them to the chip.

I dont buy that no experience= no respect. Respect is earned by your personality and Jackson is a coach. He is smart, he is a leader, a motivator, and a NYerwith NY swagger.

Isiah as a coach on the other hand just demands 0 respect, he is an idiot and a push over he is not nearly like Mark.

 

[allen3xis]

I don't really care...

Who knows what will happen...anyone we hire is gona be a risk no matter their track record or lack there of.


Things can't get worse though, right?

 

[blackmagnus514]

I hope Marbury isn't among those casualties we'll see this off season.
i do. he's done here. GHTFOH.

dude is a cancer....you'd think that with his "religious epiphany", he'd have a better relationship with his teammates.....no GM in theirright mind would take him...it's disgraceful that he's played in NY and hasnt advanced past the first round. is it a coincidence that EVERY teamhe's been on got better after he left?

his skill set is great and he's damn near tough as anyone to guard going to the basket....i like his game....but Steph needs to go for the greater good. Iused to defend him to the death, but he's done....draft a PG, and let Nate be a spark off the bench as a streak shooter like himself should be. speaking ofstreak shooters, Jamal might need to go as well, unless he learns to go to the FT line more....he's a volume scorer....

How does he not command respect? The dude has never coached before, thats how he doesn't command respect. You're telling me you wouldn't resent a guy whose coaching you for the first year.
my point exactly. especially with these boneheads....

i read on hoopshype that Walsh thinks Zach and Eddy are a redundancy down low and that if anything, Curry's out