Official NBA Off-Season Thread. New 2012-2013 Thread Has Been Made. Please Post In There

[T0INE]

If it wasnt for Pippen, MJ wouldnt have any rings. 100% fact.

Really?

Would've never known.

 

[seymore cake]

you guys worship jordan.  i want kobe to surpass his accolades is all.  so people can stop using titles/wins as the trump card in their debates.


i want it to be "player x is the most skilled player in the history of the nba"  not "jordan was the greatest, 6 titles, will power, shoes!"

You can chop it up which ever way you want and you'd be hard pressed to present a valid arguement that he's better than Mike.... You want kobe to surpass Mikes accolades but that's just not feasible. He'd have to win the next 4 MVP's and a Dpoy just to equal his indivudal accolades. Say what you want about player x's skill but if player x's skill do not lead to xyz accomplishments then what does it really mean?





Seriously... how many years can we say that Kobe was even the best player currently playing in the league. 2-3yrs? Maybe 4?

Don't get me wrong i'm not arguing one way or the other.  just saying i'm tired of the "Get to 6 chips then we can talk" arguments against kobe being one of the greats.  even the "kobe had shaq" argument is stupid (mike's teams were stacked too.  argue against that if you want.)

i just want kobe to meet/surpass some of mike's individual accomplishments out of spite towards the mike worshipers and their arguments, not because of any belief that it would legitimize kobe as the goat. The large number of people arguing against kobe being close to mike are lakers haters and mike fans who are just bitter someone is even close to their hero and being compared to him.  Their kobe distaste is reactionary.

and kobe was prob the best player in the NBA from 2002-2006 (maybeee 2007&8 too.)
[/quote]




I honestly don't think he can match him individually he just doesn't have enought time and enough in the tank. Plus he's been extremely fortunate with some of his rosters...

01-03 was Duncan ... He was other worldy during that stretch. While Kobe did put up a ;monster Januarly... 03-04 was definitely KG's year 24pts 14 rebs 5 ast 2.2 blks 1.5stls and 07 was Dirk McGirk... I'll give you 04-05, and DEFINITLY 05-06.

don't get me confused... those periods where he was HIM... He was HIM... The closest I've ever seen to Mike. Especially that month during the rape trail. and that 1st year without Shaq. He was scary.

 

[duba169]

that is what I figured

that's the logical reasoning

dude getting his Dolan on

 

[flacobey]

is this really the best the magic could get? they didnt get anything lol the picks they got were protected...thats horrible...this is why i dislike the nba...its come down to only 3 teams that have a chance to win....so predictable

not really there are a bunch of team who legitimately have a shot at the title next year

the Top 4 Being:

Miami
LA
OKC
Bos

then you have the Pacers, Bulls, Nuggets, Sixers, Clippers, Brooklyn, Memphis and New York, who all could have a good run if a player or two step up and has a break out year. I like how the league is looking right now.

 

[denni5themenace]

stern needs to make round 1 go for 5 games instead of 7. he needs to switch it up for a greater chance of upsets

 

[franchise3]

Does anyone expect me to believe that Houston wasn't willing to part with one of these pieces?
Bottoming out? Orland will be paying Afflalo until 2016! The Magic didn't even dump salary in this mess. Turk's still there. Afflalo makes.more than JRich and for more years. This is just ridiculous.
Kevin Martin's expiring and Toronto's first round pick had to be an offer by Houston. I just don't understand.

MY MAN. Even Woj tweeted, who's the most reputable dude out there, that the Rockets were offering Kevin Martin. No need to take on Aaron. Offered lottery picks, current and future, unlike the protected picks Orlando got. And were willing to take back bad contracts, which means they wouldn't need to tack on Harrington as well. Orlando got fleeced. The Rockets offer trumps the garbage Orlando got back. There's no question about it, every team came up in the deal. ...except Orlando. This isn't even about whether or not Dwight would resign in Houston. Let Houston worry about it. Make the best deal for Orlando. Orlando failed. There's only one explanation. Dan Fegan pulled the strings. A trade to Houston and probably both Houston and Orlando gets blackballed from the rest of Fegan's clients. A Fegan client would never sign to either team ever again or something

 

[Peep Game]

Houston didn't want bynum. and I don't know why not.

They didn't want to dig up the earth to get Bynum (but would have for Howard), but they would have easily taken that 3 team trade, cause they still would have kept some of their own assets to get Bynum.

 

[nako xl]

Cartwright, Wennington, Longley were all legitimate NBA centers.  Not great players but big centers(add in Will Perdue there, and Jordan had them all at the same time.)  Aside from Shaq and Bynum, can you even name another center Kobe played with?

Pippen was a top 5 player for many of those Bulls championships.

Aside from Gasol, Kukoc was as good as any forward Kobe ever had on any of his teams.  Old *** Malone included.

Kobe won with Harper and Rodman in wheelchairs.  Jordan had them in their primes.  Argue that Harper was mediocre, but Rodman was the best defensive player in the NBA at the time and one of the greatest ever.

But Jordan had zero help, doe.

Not directed at you specifically but for some people posting nonsense.....

Kobe had arguably the best center of all time for 3 of those championships, and Shaq was Finals MVP in all of them.

Jordan had Luc Longley, Bill Cartwright and Wennington as his centers. Everyone said you needed an all star big man to win in this league and Jordan proved that theory wrong. He had Scottie Pippen who was drafted by the Bulls (homegrown) to help him and everyone else around them were role players. The only FA move they made that was big up front was Rodman and that was for the last two chips, other than that how many stars went to the Bulls? Harper was past his prime on the Bulls. That Rodman deal was their one BIG TIME move and he was on his last legs.

Kobe has had %$#@ handed to him his whole career, he is my favorite player but to sit there and say Kobe has achieved what Jordan has is the most dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. I respect him for complaining to the front office when his team sucked, but some of you fans are the worst.

"Hey look guys, if Kobe wins 6 that means he is Jordan's equal because he has 6. If Kobe has 7 that means he is better than Jordan"

Pippen was drafted by the Sonics.  Rodman won 3 rings with them.  You never watched basketball.  Your argument is moot.

 

[franchise3]

If it wasnt for Pippen, MJ wouldnt have any rings. 100% fact.

If it wasn't for dominant big men, Shaq, Pau + Bynum collectively equals dominant, and now Dwight, Kobe would have 0 rings. 1000% fact.

 

[captainsneakerhead23]

If it wasnt for Pippen, MJ wouldnt have any rings. 100% fact.

Are you serious??

 

[mez 0ne]

Pippen was drafted by the Sonics.  Rodman won 3 rings with them.  You never watched basketball.  Your argument is moot.

Pippen was traded on draft day to the Bulls but you get my point.

 

[hankmoody]

MY MAN. Even Woj tweeted, who's the most reputable dude out there, that the Rockets were offering Kevin Martin. No need to take on Aaron. Offered lottery picks, current and future, unlike the protected picks Orlando got. And were willing to take back bad contracts, which means they wouldn't need to tack on Harrington as well. Orlando got fleeced. The Rockets offer trumps the garbage Orlando got back. There's no question about it, every team came up in the deal. ...except Orlando. This isn't even about whether or not Dwight would resign in Houston. Let Houston worry about it. Make the best deal for Orlando. Orlando failed. There's only one explanation. Dan Fegan pulled the strings. A trade to Houston and probably both Houston and Orlando gets blackballed from the rest of Fegan's clients. A Fegan client would never sign to either team ever again or something

Only irrationality explains this debacle. Believe that.

Other GMs don't like Morey and his cult of dorkdom.
Orlando actually believed a word said by Dwight Howard, particularly any threat.
Power grab by the owner.
Agent machinations.
Sheer incompetence.
Aliens.


Choose as many as you want.

 

[Bert.]

If it wasnt for Pippen, MJ wouldnt have any rings. 100% fact.

If it wasn't for dominant big men, Shaq, Pau + Bynum collectively equals dominant, and now Dwight, Kobe would have 0 rings. 1000% fact.

i dont disagree.

sure Jordan is good, but Pippen is easily a top 50 player obviously. ridiculous defender, you guys act like he wasnt a main piece to Jordans success.

please stop it.

 

[pmatic]

I'm really excited to see Iguodala in the open court with Lawson. Then throw in McGee lol), Faried and Gallinari and the rest of the bench.

Edit:

Trade is officially done.

 

[shox23]

i'm adding to my ignore list

 

[Bert.]

If it wasnt for Pippen, MJ wouldnt have any rings. 100% fact.

Are you serious??

of course, why you act like Pippen was a bum or 2nd tier player? he was a superstar, ultimate defender. he did everything right there with Jordan.

who else instead of Pippen would Jordan have had with him then?

 

[akavalentino]

a lot of sodium in this thread... I love it.

 

[nako xl]

Pippen was drafted by the Sonics.  Rodman won 3 rings with them.  You never watched basketball.  Your argument is moot.

Pippen was traded on draft day to the Bulls though.

I was just kidding.

Look I'm Knicks fan, not a Kobe rider or a Lakers fan at all.  I just got tired of the Kobe hate that started to pop up the second this trade was announced.  I think 6-7 rings will go a long way to shutting people up.  Earned on the back of D12 or not.

 

[mmg]

MY MAN. Even Woj tweeted, who's the most reputable dude out there, that the Rockets were offering Kevin Martin. No need to take on Aaron. Offered lottery picks, current and future, unlike the protected picks Orlando got. And were willing to take back bad contracts, which means they wouldn't need to tack on Harrington as well. Orlando got fleeced. The Rockets offer trumps the garbage Orlando got back. There's no question about it, every team came up in the deal. ...except Orlando. This isn't even about whether or not Dwight would resign in Houston. Let Houston worry about it. Make the best deal for Orlando. Orlando failed. There's only one explanation. Dan Fegan pulled the strings. A trade to Houston and probably both Houston and Orlando gets blackballed from the rest of Fegan's clients. A Fegan client would never sign to either team ever again or something

Only irrationality explains this debacle. Believe that.

Other GMs don't like Morey and his cult of dorkdom.
Orlando actually believed a word said by Dwight Howard, particularly any threat.
Power grab by the owner.
Agent machinations.
Sheer incompetence.
Aliens.


Choose as many as you want.

 

[mez 0ne]

Things I am saying are not to knock Kobe, still my fav player, always like to watch him play, it just shows you how good MJ really was. MJ has all those achievements even taking 2 years off during his prime, never won with a dominant big man. People just need to chill and let Kobe make a name for himself, he will never be Jordan.

 

[mmg]

I think the main factor when deciding MJ / Kobe is MJ carried his teams to all 6.... While Kobe got carried for his first 3 ....

 

[xtapolapacetl]

you guys worship jordan. i want kobe to surpass his accolades is all. so people can stop using titles/wins as the trump card in their debates.

Surpass his accolades? Say what? Then you better hope he wins 3-4 more MVPs, DPOY, has some major statistical improvements, mainly in the FG% category, and put up some insane numbers in the finals, because the ones he has now don't carry the 91, 92 and 93 Jordan final's jockstrap. Odds of him doing this in the 4-5 years he has left are pretty low. It's been known for some time that Kobe will never surpass or equal MJ as a player.

There are two pro-Kobe arguments in a Kobe vs MJ comparison:

1. Being a better outside shooter over his entire career, though never as good as MJ in the 95-96 season.
2. The same argument that would make David Robinson and his career high 71 points a better player than Hakeem Olajuwon and his 52.

You have no legit arguments whatsoever when it comes to this subject. Only empty fanboy propaganda that is backed up by "This." comments from fellow fanboys.

 

[duba169]

I think the main factor when deciding MJ / Kobe is MJ carried his teams to all 6.... While Kobe got carried for his first 3 ....

the main factor is delusion

and i am a huge kobe fan. it's just so ridiculous

it isnt like there is any shame in that

 

[Bert.]

hes got more rings than fingers...hmmm

 

[captainsneakerhead23]

of course, why you act like Pippen was a bum or 2nd tier player? he was a superstar, ultimate defender. he did everything right there with Jordan.
who else instead of Pippen would Jordan have had with him then?

When did I ever say Pippen was a bum or a 2nd tier player? If you read my post, it said "besides Pippen" meaning I am acknowledging Pippen as a superstar.

IMO I think MJ would've got a ring with a player that had half of Pippen's abilities. MJ just had that killer instinct that most simply didn't have. MJ was cut from a different cloth.