Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

[dmbrhs]

So who else's gyms have been filled with dudes dribbling a ball with a plastic bag over it ever since Irving let his workout secret out during the Rook/Soph BBVA Rising Star's game?

We don't have children in the gyms I play at, so none.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

So who else's gyms have been filled with dudes dribbling a ball with a plastic bag over it ever since Irving let his workout secret out during the Rook/Soph BBVA Rising Star's game?

We don't have children in the gyms I play at, so none.

 

[david bowman]

He doesn't get suspended but David Lee got a game for pushing.

 

[bigmike23]

Matt Barnes ‏@Matt_Barnes22
You can INTENTIONALLY grab or hit someone in the balls & not get suspended, but you push someone & get suspended. #ImConfused

RT @Matt_Barnes22: Let me or @mettaworldpeace do that & I guarantee its a 5game suspension.. I luv *how* there are different rules, for different people!

YUP!

well no **** guys with a history of dirty play would have got it worse

 

[proshares]

Russell Westbrook the next Kobe?

OKC's point guard has many of the same qualities as the Lakers' leading man.

There really hasn't been a star like Kobe Bryant, who has had both a huge following of supporters and a long line of haters.

Winning two titles without Shaquille O'Neal has helped put his legacy in a positive light, but questions about his willingness to be a consistent "team guy" still exist. He makes it more challenging for his doubters when he decides to be a passer and then does so extraordinarily well. His zeal to win and fully compete shape him into a single-minded scorer all too often, making him a hard guy to feel warm and fuzzy about.

In Oklahoma City, there is now another all-NBA-caliber player who boils the blood of his detractors with his rambunctious actions, facial expressions and decision-making, while inspiring his teammates and fans with his lust for winning: Russell Westbrook.

Is Westbrook the next Kobe Bryant, a lethal scoring machine who can help carry a team to titles while still infuriating the masses? The similarities between the two are striking.


Power guards

Bryant and Westbrook can both dominate opponents physically. As an athlete in his prime, Kobe had it all -- the incredibly rare combination of length, elite athleticism in terms of quickness and bounce, and the power to play through defenders and not just around them. The only other shooting guards to ever have that combination, at Kobe's size, were Michael Jordan and Clyde Drexler. (Walter Davis lacked power, as did Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter. Dwyane Wade is significantly smaller.)

Westbrook is even rarer. He ranks as the most athletic point guard we have ever seen. His overall combination of physical skills gives him a bigger advantage in that aspect of the game than any point guard has ever enjoyed. But it comes at a price, as we have seen for years with Kobe.

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For lack of a better word, both men are often "bullies" in games, just like Shaq and Charles Barkley and pretty much every great big man who featured a dominant physical game. Coaches demand that players with physical advantages use them as often as possible. So powerful players develop a mindset to dominate and relentlessly attack opponents. This can lead to the player becoming single-minded in his effort to overmatch the opponent.

The issue with Kobe and Westbrook is that they are guards and have the ball in their hands all the time. There's a saying, "To a hammer, everything looks like a nail." That applies perfectly to Kobe and Westbrook. They are almost always being defended by men who simply cannot match up with them physically. Some might be strong enough but lack the quickness. Others might be quicker but slighter. And almost all of them are shorter.

Kobe and Westbrook, therefore, do what any big man would do -- they look to exploit that disparity of physical talent against their defender and most help defenders, as well. This is where their games most parallel each other and where they draw the most criticism: Because of their physical advantages, they take more bad shots than they should since they can get them off and make enough to continue to believe that they are good shots.


Intense competitors

Both Kobe and Westbrook have a complete offensive game to match their physical prowess. They also have the necessary IQ to read the game. Kobe, to most experts' eyes, can be like a coach on the floor. His pedigree, playing for the best NBA coach in history (Phil Jackson) for so many seasons, gives him an understanding of the game few have. So when Kobe has launched one long contested jumper after another during his career, playing with men who were capable of scoring and were open, it was seen as Kobe ignoring what he knew to be the right play and instead focusing on his own matchup advantage.

To Westbrook, every defender looks like a "mark," and he goes about taking the mark down almost every chance he gets. When he does so while Kevin Durant is waiting patiently in the wings, and Westbrook misses shot after shot, that is when his decision-making is criticized.

Unlike Kobe, we are not yet sure Westbrook understands all of the mistakes he is making. No one is ready to proclaim him as one of the smartest guards in the league.

[+] Enlarge
Harry How/Getty Images
Westbrook, like Kobe, often settles for tough jump shots.Ironically, the same incredible driving force that compels both men to churn out bad possessions also can serve as their guiding light. Kobe has been considered the most competitive player in the league for years. Chris Paul is in that same league, and Westbrook is quickly getting there. The true competitor wants to prepare to win just as much as he wants to win, because he understands how more of the former leads to more of the latter.

Kobe, following in the footsteps of guys such as Jordan, Magic and Bird, was always able to add skills to his game. And we are seeing that same pattern in Westbrook. He can "hammer" opponents with his jump shot now better than he ever could, which often leads to his problems.

Westbrook has a favorite move, in which he rises up to shoot a jumper just as he appears to be ready to drive hard to the rim, and he can hang on to the ball and change the timing of his release to ensure he can get it off. It's a hard shot to contest, but it is also a hard shot to make. Westbrook has taken 471 2-point shots between five feet and the 3-point line and has made just 171 of them (36.3 percent). Of those shots, 355 of them were from 10 to 19 feet, most of which were the pull-up jumpers off the dribble that he loves. But he has made only 135 of them (38 percent).

It's not as if Westbrook is a ball hog who leaves Durant to fend for himself. Westbrook has assisted on 163 of Durant's made field goals and has found Serge Ibaka for buckets 130 times. Those are significant numbers when considering that missed shots and fouls are not counted. So we know that he values his role as the lead ball handler and understands his teammates can't be expected to play well if they are not involved in the offense. He just doesn't seem to do it often enough.

But there is every reason to believe that another postseason failure will compel him to reconsider his strategies.


Can Westbrook have Kobe's success?

The Thunder have one of the best offenses in the league in recent seasons. Still, there is room for improvement if and when their starting point guard recognizes that he and his team would be better off if he turned down just a few of those tough jumpers and attacked the rim or moved the ball to an open teammate instead. Critics of Kobe and the Lakers also recognize that line of thinking.

Ultimately, Kobe has been able to get away with a lot of his bad habits because his teams have won five titles and he never played with another top wing scorer. Westbrook hasn't won anything at this level yet and plays alongside the league's best wing scorer, which is why some thought the Thunder should have kept James Harden and traded Westbrook.

There is a fine line between employing Westbrook like a sledgehammer while still running a beautiful offense; the Thunder don't want to curb Westbrook and therefore hurt the team, or let him do too much and render the offense less effective. It begins and ends with Westbrook's willingness to play with that edge yet not take as many of those tough jump shots. If he does that, he can quiet his critics, just as Kobe has.

 

[Coupé It]

Stop posting MattBarnes tweets in here. The ignorance and lack of self-awareness is just spewing out.

 

[bigmike23]

why pro, why

 

[BIG LEEMELONE]

Can't wait til Rose gets back and is 100%. I like russ but he is not more athletic than d rose

 

[proshares]

I know, I complain about the quality of posts and then throw wood into the fire

 

[trueprada]

Penalties shouldn't be predicated on standings.

youre right but its great for the league..will he get revenge the next time they play?

 

[big j 33]

For the record, saying there might be players who work as hard as Kobe just without the story behind him isn't an insult...

actually it is. whats the point of bringing it up at all then?

Because people making comments that Kobe is the hardest working player... or no one can match his work ethic.. or any other hyperbole is very much related to these kind of stories being written. Stories that might not be written for countless players who work on their game as much.

Then again this is the season thread and a bunch of guys in here get so salty if kobe is brought up...

Then again, this is the season thread where anything that isn't direct praise can be misconstrued as criticism. If I asked you to find evidence of me being "salty" of Kobe, you would have a difficult time... because it likely doesn't exist. I'm shocked if there's any NTer who would label me one of the Kobe haters.

change kobe with some other player name and I bet you dont say what you did

Proof my point went right over your head. Kobe has an incredibly impressive work ethic, likely one of the best in the league, that doesn't change if I notice it's one of the narratives associated with Kobe. I like Kobe and I admire his work ethic. 

And further proof? This story was posted on reddit by an anonymous author. The moderators there asked him to verify his authenticity privately and he hasn't done so yet. Yet, many accept this story without question because it fits within the narrative of Kobe's dedicated work ethic. And before I'm labeled "salty" or a hater, I'm sure even if this particular story is made up, there's countless other similar accounts of his devotion... but my point still stands.

 

[CP1708]

So when Clips/Thunder matchup in round 2, Blake can nail Durant in the nuts one good time and not miss any time?

Way to think ahead Stu. That series is gonna get epic.

 

[datznasty]

So who else's gyms have been filled with dudes dribbling a ball with a plastic bag over it ever since Irving let his workout secret out during the Rook/Soph BBVA Rising Star's game?

We don't have children in the gyms I play at, so none.

What the **** is that even supposed to mean? Besides you still displaying your weird obsession with making negative replies to me since I am from Oklahoma like you guys aren't this close to getting a team now. It's over, guess it worked. You can unhinge from my proverbial nuts now please. Thank you.

 

[trueprada]

So when Clips/Thunder matchup in round 2, Blake can nail Durant in the nuts one good time and not miss any time?

Way to think ahead Stu. That series is gonna get epic.

exactly

 

[lawdog1]

So when Clips/Thunder matchup in round 2, Blake can nail Durant in the nuts one good time and not miss any time?

Way to think ahead Stu. That series is gonna get epic.

Blake or CP can, but if Matt Barnes does it, he'll be out for the series (at least, according to Matt Barnes).

 

[Deleted member 38182]

So who else's gyms have been filled with dudes dribbling a ball with a plastic bag over it ever since Irving let his workout secret out during the Rook/Soph BBVA Rising Star's game?

We don't have children in the gyms I play at, so none.

What the **** is that even supposed to mean? Besides you still displaying your weird obsession with making negative replies to me since I am from Oklahoma like you guys aren't this close to getting a team now. It's over, guess it worked. You can unhinge from my proverbial nuts now please. Thank you.

 

[Bert.]

So who else's gyms have been filled with dudes dribbling a ball with a plastic bag over it ever since Irving let his workout secret out during the Rook/Soph BBVA Rising Star's game?

i would be doing your gif if i saw that

 

[illoquent aka dsk]

Originally Posted by DatZNasty  

So who else's gyms have been filled with dudes dribbling a ball with a plastic bag over it ever since Irving let his workout secret out during the Rook/Soph BBVA Rising Star's game?

We don't have children in the gyms I play at, so none.

What the **** is that even supposed to mean? Besides you still displaying your weird obsession with making negative replies to me since I am from Oklahoma like you guys aren't this close to getting a team now. It's over, guess it worked. You can unhinge from my proverbial nuts now please. Thank you.

Took a shot right at his nuts with the Seattle/OKC mention.

 

[bigmike23]

FLAG ON THE PLAY

 

[mr jordan04]

Lebron also on twitter talkin mess about the ibaka situation

 

[sooperhooper]

Lebron should know all about favoritism in the nba. Which teammate was he referring to tho.

Matt Barnes better shut up before he gets suspended for tweeting. He knows he's got a target on his back.

 

[ripc]

Bron Bron complaining that Wade got suspended for kicking Ramon Sessions in the nuts a while back.

C'mon b. Serge deserved punishment but he didn't hit him hard enough to have him rolling all over the floor like that.

 

[dmbrhs]

What the **** is that even supposed to mean? Besides you still displaying your weird obsession with making negative replies to me since I am from Oklahoma like you guys aren't this close to getting a team now. It's over, guess it worked. You can unhinge from my proverbial nuts now please. Thank you.

When was the last time I said anything negative about OKC (or you, for that matter)? I'll wait.

 

[Deleted member 38182]

What the **** is that even supposed to mean? Besides you still displaying your weird obsession with making negative replies to me since I am from Oklahoma like you guys aren't this close to getting a team now. It's over, guess it worked. You can unhinge from my proverbial nuts now please. Thank you.

When was the last time I said anything negative about OKC (or you, for that matter)? I'll wait.

 

[seymore cake]

Bron Bron complaining that Wade got suspended for kicking Ramon Sessions in the nuts a while back.

C'mon b. Serge deserved punishment but he didn't hit him hard enough to have him rolling all over the floor like that.

Serge purposely swung his fist and hit a player in his manhood. There is no defending that. He should've been suspended, he wasn't even ejected.