Official NBA 2012-2013 Season Thread

[licensed to ball]

^exactly.

Winning shuts people up.

Kobe is still one of the most hated athletes in the world. But just imagine if he DIdnt win those 2 rings without Shaq.

Sure he still gets the "but he had Pau" type
Comments. But real nba fans know you can't win by yourself.

Point is, overall even tho the hates still there it would of been amplified x500 he hadn't won without Shaq. Especially after Kobe ran him off from LA and wanted the team to his own. People like Skip Bayless still question if he's even a top 10 player all-time today. If he hasn't won on his own, those dudes probably wouldn't even wanna put him in the top 20-25.

Once LeBron wins 1 or 2 more there's gonna be very little for even the most saltiest dudes in the world to say.

People say winning doesn't mean everything....but real talk, it does in basketball.

You wanna shut haters up? Win. That's the only cure for salty blood.

 

[finallyfamous]

I know .. That's why I was ticked when the "return" rumors came out a few months back...

Gonna be annoying

 

[quik1987]

Y'all saying Bron gonna go back to Cleveland looking like Knicks fans from a few years ago

"But he rock da yankee cap!•

"His shoes already Knicks colors!"

FOH

Why would he leave a situation where he could win multiple championships and be the greatest ever.

 

[finallyfamous]

Nah it's different come on now ..

New York never had a chance let it go

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I only think The Return is possible because he could generate a story 10x bigger than The Decision without making a forced hour-long special and having his people manufacture a story.

This is speculation though. You can't really be wrong till it happens... especially when it comes to Lebron Free Agency choices. Quik I could argue your post sounds like all the Cavs fans who called people stupid for thinking he'd leave...

 

[big j 33]

Big J you honestly saying nothing has changed with LeBrons public perception? Nothing at all?

There's a difference between a few people still hating LeBron and hundreds of people hating LeBron. I know there's still criticism, there always will be.

But I thought the difference between the volume of 2011's LeBron criticisms and 2013's was very visible.

All I said was he's still criticized a lot, I didn't jump to the extreme end of the spectrum and say "nothing has changed". You're speaking in a lot broader terms about "Nothin to joke about" or "not a problem he joined 2 stars"... people are still complaining about that. My point was, there's always going to be criticism about some of the petty things and I don't expect that to change.

Of course winning is a huge factor in public perception, who would argue otherwise? It also helps when he's improved all of his weak areas and is playing at an unbelievable level.

 

[shox23]

I think Riley is gonna make a big move next year to try to prevent Lebron from leaving

 

[quik1987]

Only way he leaves is Heat stop winning or he smashes Gabriel Union

 

[markangelo]

yikes, rose should sit out the season and rehab the knee more...great progress, but I just don't think he'll be the same player..I wonder if players seize this opportunity to attack the players who got injured more, or if they go "easy" on them..Since Rose is probably the most humble guy in the L, I think players might not attack him as hard as they would have, had he not torn his acl..But then again, these athletes are ultra competitive, I would not be surprised if they see this as an opportunity to attack him more..

 

[worldbeefreeg]

Nah it's different come on now ..

New York never had a chance let it go

Except that was his second option and he got wooed by Riley and Wade...

Kyrie/Dion/Nerlens is not a bad crew for him to have when he gets older...by the time he is really past his prime they'll all be in it...Long term it gives him a better chance to get to 6 then Miami does. Once again, if he gets the next two, he came what he meant to do in Miami. These guys are competitors and like to push themselves, Cleveland would represent that last chance to push himself. In terms of his career narrative, its their and if he wins there, he's immortal in a different way than continuing to win in Miami.

 

[duba169]

The Cle story is meaningless. He will go wherever the easiest path possible is. Depends on what happens at the time. Ring chasing is more important than any hometown narrative. Or any jay z or Knicks narrative. Or going to take over Chicago and be better than MJ

Whichever team makes it the easiest possible to stack the deck and win is where he will stay or go

He didn't go to new York because Miami had a super team available and new York didn't. Stop with the revisionist history.

 

[CP1708]

As with any sport, winning needs more winning. LeBron ain't outta the woods yet. He has his 1, and he certainly earned it, but Peyton Manning and A-Rod each have a ring also, is their record now clean and clear or do they still have to hear **** on a daily basis?

Kobe had 3 and still was hearin crap. He's got 5 now and hears crap STILL.

Bottom line, people always demand more. Nobody will ever be able to take away Bron's first, but they will clamor and demand more. Tom Brady, same thing. Don't matter the sport, or the athlete, people always wanna see what you do next.

In a year or two, people gonna start lookin at Durant. Yo, why he ain't got one yet? He's almost 30 (he'll be 26-27 at the time) when he gonna start winnin? Etc etc.

Once upon a time the public and media alike were questioning Michael Jordan for not having any rings.

 

[licensed to ball]

Big J you honestly saying nothing has changed with LeBrons public perception? Nothing at all?


There's a difference between a few people still hating LeBron and hundreds of people hating LeBron. I know there's still criticism, there always will be.


But I thought the difference between the volume of 2011's LeBron criticisms and 2013's was very visible.

All I said was he's still criticized a lot, I didn't jump to the extreme end of the spectrum and say "nothing has changed". You're speaking in a lot broader terms about "Nothin to joke about" or "not a problem he joined 2 stars"... people are still complaining about that. My point was, there's always going to be criticism about some of the petty things and I don't expect that to change.

Of course winning is a huge factor in public perception, who would argue otherwise? It also helps when he's improved all of his weak areas and is playing at an unbelievable level.

Fair point, well said.
I was just pointing out an observation. But we're on the same page.

 

[al3xis]

I thought for sure Rose would be back by now honestly with the way ACL injuries tend to go nowadays. But say he's back even in 2 weeks - that only leaves what, 6 weeks(?) before the playoffs start to get in playing shape and try to knock the rust off. That's asking a lot.

Let's go back to his maturation as a player for a second. Dude embraced all of his flaws (raw defense, mid-range jumper, post game, etc) and worked on them to the point where they are now his strengths. This is not a man complacent with just being "great." This was a man determined to elevate his game to the point where he has NO league competition and he is without a doubt the best player on the planet. We've seen this happen within the past 2-3 years.

Amusing part is - as far as improvement the last 2 years - he's done this while playing 152 games in 426 days when you throw in the Olympics.

but that Game 6 was the first real piece of evidence that could back up your claims, no argument.

This was #2:

Personally, I don't know - they lose Game 7..G6 is forgotten awfully quick. And Game 7 was very much in the balance heading into the 4th quarter. Everyone wants to say his mental make-up changed that game, to me he was just locked in, which wasn't new. Going wire to wire afterwards was just a natural progression and evolution - admittedly a year or two late - but games like that had happened: Game 3 in Was ('06), Game 5 in Detroit ('07), Game 7 in Boston ('0, Game 5 vs Orlando ('09), Game 4 in Chicago ('10), Game 3 in Boston ('10), Game 4 in Boston ('11), Game 5 in Chicago ('11), Game 4 in Indiana ('12). Those have been forgotten but going on the road and demolishing a team wasn't new. He and his team just finished things off the rest of the way this time. The end result in in the 2012 playoff run ended with a title to magnify that specific night.


And you don't ring chase when you're in the prime of an all-time career. You change the landscape of the league.

 

[kb8 3qwick]

Honestly and unfortunately everything always depends on how ESPN spins things. Kobe was the youngest to 31,000 points yesterday and they barely mentioned it and they made the Mark Cuban thing a big deal. If that would've been LeBron they would've had a 3 hour special documenting each point up till 31,000

 

[mronegative]

I know LeBron is great.

But it's crazy how so many people on this board or in life in general have changed their feelings towards him all in the span of one year.

I guess when they say winning cures all they ain't lying.

One year everyone's clowning on him, hating, joking, laughing, criticizing...hairline jokes, people feel sorry for him. Ego too big. Jerk for leaving Cleveland. Playing the Robin role to win rings.

The next, he's NT's favorite player, great man, great player, no flaws. Nothin to joke about or criticize, hairline ain't a problem anymore, ego isn't an issue anymore. Butt being kissed, everyone wants to be him. Not a problem anymore that he joined 2 stars to win a ring.

Why? Because he won a ring.

Again...I know he is the best player in the world, he deserves the recognition. It's amazing what he's doing. But it's just an interesting observation seeing how dramatically things have changed when it comes to LeBron.

Win and you instantly gain the worlds respect. Valuable lesson to us all. Serious. Be successful and you're no longer a joke to people.

Spoiler: Whoops...got carried away

To me, it's always been the myth of what LeBron thinks he is and has accomplished vs. the reality of the things he's done.

The myth reached it's peak with the MVPuppets, when the league flat out told us what the Finals was gonna be.

He finally got jumper and we were all ready to crown him. The greatest, best player. The anti-Kobe. The most lovable superstar in basketball. And those Cavs. Big Z, Verajao, Mo, Boobie. It's everything. The handshakes, the powder, the ad campaigns, the exposes...all of it. That was America's team. Every basketball fan knew their names and knew he was going to the Finals that year. Because he wasn't even supposed to BE in the 07 Finals. And we understood that C's team was a miracle in '08. But no KG...nobody could deny this destiny we were supposed to be witnessing. Who the hell could stop him?

Then Stan Van Gundy happened.
Anchored by goofy *** Dwight. Whatever.

The last time people felt that kind of certainty and togetherness with a team was the Shaq-Kobe Lakers, and MJ before them.
The greatest player on the best team had to win, or at least get taken out by someone worthy. This was neither for most everyone.

That's when we got used to not giving too much of a **** what LeBron did in the regular season.
Then the Celtics elbow series happened. Those 2 games were a travesty to basketball.
Then The Decision.
Then the hatred.

He went from a team with the most likable, college atmosphere outside of OKC to the NWO.
To D-Wade, who a lot of people had none too much respect for after D-Whistle and the 06 Finals.
To Chris Bosh. His face and his body and his affectations are permanent easy targets.

It wasn't just that he left the Cavs, he killed America's team.
And he didn't do it to join those scrappy Bulls.
Or to really become larger than life going to NY.

He went to Miami to join an all-star team of unlikable characters. The Big 3 in Celtics had forever nice guy Ray Allen, the people's heartbreak Kevin Garnett, the ultimate dad/preacher coach Doc Rivers, the history and glow of the Celtics, white Mamba and dude named Big Baby. Dudes who hated the Celtics gave a pass to this likeable crew of legends, finally having a shot.

Had LeBron and Bosh gone to Chicago or NY, people would've accepted it. The house that Jordan built with these young hardnosed players or the 'mecca of basketball,' media capital of America, where they'd build him a statue if he only won 1. There's just something about the simple idea of Miami that gets under people's skin. Like it's Las Vegas East or something. Like he joined the Hurricanes.

And that was the single ugliest way to do things possibly. I mean the Oscars were last night. If you don't understand that the way you present things that might be shocking or difficult for the public matters, then you deserve what happens next. He decided to go big. But as if that wasn't bad enough, it was the things he did and said off the court throughout the whole 2010-11 season, that are why the average person who remembers will always be hesitant to like him. You can forget the words, you can forget the actions, you can forget the events, but you won't forget that feeling.

You can get most NBA fans to respect him. But there's always gonna be that barrier. It's a badge...a signature. The best player is on the best team, and that team...in it's own way, is supposed to be America's team.

And if you cannot make people like you in sport...they will always try to dismiss you. And when you get built up just to let them down earlier than expected, they will not forget (hi SPURS).

People want to see them suck and lose, because of feelings. Because it feels wrong that this team is the team. It's good for the league, because they're all celebrities. At least it's not a Spurs or Pistons deal. But at least those teams were met with ambivalence. The Miami 3 made people hate them, for an entire year, because they could. Because LeBron couldn't say one thing the way he meant to say it, and couldn't understand why all 29 stadiums were no longer welcoming to him.

And even now, it would take him turning into Magic personality-wise to get most people to sincerely like him. And the basketball just isn't as entertaining as we'd hoped it'd be. It was the first year, but that wound was too fresh and their actions kept cutting it back open. This heat team is efficient and well run, but Bron has changed his game to a smarter more nuanced attack, that's less of the spectacle that made him the shining star. It makes it harder for the casual basketball fan who remembers the hate for him, to be won over by his play.

And the role players are downright Spurs-ian. And D-Wade, at times, is the most unlikeable ************ in basketball. And Spoelstra...no one feels any type of way looking at that guy. He's not some supreme guru or the general or the leader or anything. He's just seems like the guy who knows what plays to run, what adjustments to make and who's missing their assignments. (Wait...that's what the Knicks need right now...) But Spoelstra makes Pop look like the life of the party. There's nothing on the Heat for you to latch onto and say you love this team, beyond they win and at times dominate. They're the Spurs of the East with trashy celebrity baggage.

That's what LeBron has on his back. People will stop hating him, but they'll never love him like '09 again. They'll just respect him more, because he can shut them up with his play on the court. But his public persona is so far removed from MVPuppets LeBron for people with memories to love this guy. He had a blank slate before, and they filled in the gaps with positivity and hope and glee and all that. Not anymore. They fill it with **** you if you can't win, can't play amazingly, can't have a ridiculous statline AND hit the gamewinner. And trust if you do all that we'll just go at Wade, cuz one of yall is bound to piss us off any given night.

People will never leave LeBron alone. It comes with the territory. That's why you have to ingratiate yourself with the fans and the league. And understand they're always waiting for a reason. He's given them so many, that people barely even have to mention them. They can just go at dude. The expressions on his face, the flopping, whatever. What he did was complicated and incredibly rare. That's why dudes have written hundreds, thousands of pages on the social psychology of what he did to his image. I mean it even comes down to trivial things like their jersey's being lifeless.

But basically...

He can get people to stop hating him for sure. And he can get people who never cared, or can isolate him from his team to like him. But not everybody. Not most people. The specific things people have a problem with him about will go away, but the feeling that you're constantly waiting for a reason to hate on him won't ever.

Not unless he joins the Cavs again and wins there imo.

People love Kyrie and would still feel some type of way about the Cavs and all that's happened, if he went back.

 

[antidope]

As with any sport, winning needs more winning. LeBron ain't outta the woods yet. He has his 1, and he certainly earned it, but Peyton Manning and A-Rod each have a ring also, is their record now clean and clear or do they still have to hear **** on a daily basis?

Kobe had 3 and still was hearin crap. He's got 5 now and hears crap STILL.

Bottom line, people always demand more. Nobody will ever be able to take away Bron's first, but they will clamor and demand more. Tom Brady, same thing. Don't matter the sport, or the athlete, people always wanna see what you do next.

In a year or two, people gonna start lookin at Durant. Yo, why he ain't got one yet? He's almost 30 (he'll be 26-27 at the time) when he gonna start winnin? Etc etc.

Once upon a time the public and media alike were questioning Michael Jordan for not having any rings.

Yup. He would have to win 10 without dropping a finals for him to be 100% slander proof.

 

[senorroboto2k5]

I thought for sure Rose would be back by now honestly with the way ACL injuries tend to go nowadays. But say he's back even in 2 weeks - that only leaves what, 6 weeks(?) before the playoffs start to get in playing shape and try to knock the rust off. That's asking a lot.
Amusing part is - as far as improvement the last 2 years - he's done this while playing 152 games in 426 days when you throw in the Olympics.

Personally, I don't know - they lose Game 7..G6 is forgotten awfully quick. And Game 7 was very much in the balance heading into the 4th quarter. Everyone wants to say his mental make-up changed that game, to me he was just locked in, which wasn't new. Going wire to wire afterwards was just a natural progression and evolution - admittedly a year or two late - but games like that had happened: Game 3 in Was ('06), Game 5 in Detroit ('07), Game 7 in Boston ('0, Game 5 vs Orlando ('09), Game 4 in Chicago ('10), Game 3 in Boston ('10), Game 4 in Boston ('11), Game 5 in Chicago ('11), Game 4 in Indiana ('12). Those have been forgotten but going on the road and demolishing a team wasn't new. He and his team just finished things off the rest of the way this time. The end result in in the 2012 playoff run ended with a title to magnify that specific night.


And you don't ring chase when you're in the prime of an all-time career. You change the landscape of the league.

That Game 6 in 2012 was slightly different in my opinion, because there was more hanging on it than a lost game or series. The scrutiny, criticism, jokes, destroyed reputation were hanging in the air with Boston up 3-2 and he just took the court and destroyed them. That's the first time he had a big performance in a big game where the criticism (or possibility of it) didn't hinder him.

That game against Detroit was probably a better performance, but people wouldn't have been on his *** if they had lost that game or series. If he followed up his 2011 playoffs with another stinker, it would've been the Comedy Central Roast of Lebron James on every sports show and more.

 

[nooera]

Game 6 last year

Devastating loss for the Celtics. I was extremely upset but at the same time i knew i just witnessed greatness unfold right before my eyes so i wasnt too mad. Duke was unstoppable.

 

[jjs07]

LeBron is going back to Cleveland, how is it grasping at straws? The foundation will be in place with a young roster and it would ultimately fulfill his narrative in a more complete way as a player. Plus, he is already moving his family back there.

If he wins the next two in Miami which is very likely, what left can he gain from staying in that situation? If he ran off a couple in Cleveland on top of what he did in Miami, he places himself in Jordan hemisphere, which is ultimately what he is chasing.

See below.

Makes ZERO sense. Akron =/= Cleveland.

Ill be surprised if a return happens.. If he thought he had pressure to win.... Imagine going back to the city that has been dying for a title since 1964, and that you left because you couldn't win there? Don't think he wants that honestly. Think if he failed ...: again?

*edit* You gonna look at him moving his kids back to akron in the same way that people thought the blue/orange bird in the Nike ad was an indication that he was signing w/ the Knicks?

 

[markangelo]

Game 6 last year

Devastating loss for the Celtics. I was extremely upset but at the same time i knew i just witnessed greatness unfold right before my eyes so i wasnt too mad. Duke was unstoppable.

That was a game in which convinced me that Lebron was going to win it all...It was a pleasure to see greatness on the court

 

[licensed to ball]

Damn MrO. If I was home I'd give you a standing ovation .gif for the effort alone that you put into your last post.

Very well said. I agree with you fully.

*claps hands*

 

[senorroboto2k5]

Game 6 last year

Devastating loss for the Celtics. I was extremely upset but at the same time i knew i just witnessed greatness unfold right before my eyes so i wasnt too mad. Duke was unstoppable.

That was a game in which convinced me that Lebron was going to win it all...It was a pleasure to see greatness on the court

Sums it up for me. Up to that point I had a hatred for Lebron from all those FA antics. But the way he played that game made it hard for my feelings to even pop up. It was a purely ridiculous performance.

 

[duba169]

I don't think there's anyone that wasn't mesmerized by game 6. Not up for debate.

 

[proshares]

The ****? Obviously he can do whatever the hell he wants, however the hell he wants. If he chooses to do it like he did last time, he's gonna experience another backlash.I'm not saying he cares....

that's what I was referring to, he'll do whatever he wants in free agency the next time around if it gets to that point. I think he'll care even less about the emotional males who will cry about it this time around my bad, I should have been more specific.