Official DragonBall Z Thread. R.I.P Akira Toriyama. You will be missed

[Top Boy]

 

 

I said Old Kai said that Buu was ONCE stronger than Bills


Aka, at one point in time Buu had more power than him.


Not that Buu is stronger than Bills at his current state.


At one point in time, I was shorter than my dad, too...


Wellwhat happened? I grew....


Bills became stronger over thousands of years with Buu locked away.


Bills was the one who sealed the Kai, so obviously, he's comparing the two.



Toriyama himself stated that it was Bills who sealed the Kai away

I don't think you get what we're trying to say...

Beerus, at the time of that mangas posting, had not existed nor been thought of.

Clearly.... And I mean very, very, clearly, at no point in time could Buu at any power level he has ever shown comes even remotely close to Beerus power.

There is no room for speculation. Buu's best showing and highest power level is absolutely and completely eclipsed by anything Beerus has ever shown.

Also, (since you seem stuck on it)


 

I've seen the movie, I've read the manga, I've seen it all.

You're making your point based on what you think is the case

I'm making my point based on what the Kai said, and based on what Toriyama says

It doesn't matter if he was created before or after, if it's canon then it's canon. And since he was referenced in the past and brought to fruition in the future, 1+1=2.

So the evidence given to us is that a long time ago, Buu bodied everyone and had to be sealed away because he was causing too much destruction. So much to the point where the planet creators and destroyers could not do their jobs. So the Kai's sealed him away.

At that point, Buu was the most powerful being in the universe.

Thousands of years later, Bills and Old Kai got into an argument and Bills seals him away.

Time jump, thousands of years later, Buu returns and is still at the same power level as he was before he was sealed. He is defeated.

Time jump, Bills returns. He has still been around destroying planets and being trained by Whis.... He's obviously grown far beyond Buu's power. He's been destroying planets for thousands of years...


That's not only how the series played out right in Front of us, but Toriyama said himself that Bills sealed the Kai away. So how else could things have played out.

It's obvious that Buu wouldn't be as strong as Bills thousands of years later when Bills has been putting in work. If Goku was strong enough to beat Buu with only 40 years of training, it's a no brainer Bills, a god ranked being in the series would wash him THOUSANDS of years later. That was never my point.

My point was, the Kai said the Buu he remembered was stronger than the Bills he remembered. Seeing as to how he's encountered them both.

/rant

Im not reading any of that. If I really need to sit here and try to explain how a saga that released literally... LITERALLY 20 years ago would not include recent changes in continuity we'd argue until page 100 and you'd still stick with that point.

Im done.

 

[PRIME]

Be done then. Aint nobody tell you to start.

 

[MVP]

[emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] dude is not having it. It's ok to be wrong man, it's just DBZ.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I said Old Kai said that Buu was ONCE stronger than Bills

Aka, at one point in time Buu had more power than him.

Not that Buu is stronger than Bills at his current state.

At one point in time, I was shorter than my dad, too...

Wellwhat happened? I grew....

Bills became stronger over thousands of years with Buu locked away.

Bills was the one who sealed the Kai, so obviously, he's comparing the two.


Toriyama himself stated that it was Bills who sealed the Kai away
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/

That's the glory of retconning. What happened in the past is over written by what is stated later on. Along with bills being retconned so is his status of strongest in the universe. More than likely AT forgot he wrote that line. It's happened before like when he forgot about Launch and he forgot about gotten and trunks' tails. Majin Buu was all but 5 years before the events of battle of the Gods. He made a point to bring up freiza but no mention of Majin Buu whatsoever, even when coming face to face with fat buu.

 

[Top Boy]

[emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] dude is not having it. It's ok to be wrong man, it's just DBZ.

See this all the time, I know better at this point

 

Aint eem that serious, and although they won't admit it they know whats up.

 

[PRIME]

I said Old Kai said that Buu was ONCE stronger than Bills

Aka, at one point in time Buu had more power than him.

Not that Buu is stronger than Bills at his current state.

At one point in time, I was shorter than my dad, too...

Wellwhat happened? I grew....

Bills became stronger over thousands of years with Buu locked away.

Bills was the one who sealed the Kai, so obviously, he's comparing the two.


Toriyama himself stated that it was Bills who sealed the Kai away
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/saikyo-jump-june-2014-issue-twel-buu-mysteries/

That's the glory of retconning. What happened in the past is over written by what is stated later on. Along with bills being retconned so is his status of strongest in the universe. More than likely AT forgot he wrote that line. It's happened before like when he forgot about Launch and he forgot about gotten and trunks' tails. Majin Buu was all but 5 years before the events of battle of the Gods. He made a point to bring up freiza but no mention of Majin Buu whatsoever, even when coming face to face with fat buu.

I hear you, but when was it stated that the series was retconned for the new characters?

Usually when that happens, it's pointed out or referenced somewhere

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I hear you, but when was it stated that the series was retconned for the new characters?

Usually when that happens, it's pointed out or referenced somewhere

When AT stated that the events in the Bills movie are canon then everything stated in that movie is now considered fact whether it overwrites passed claims or not.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I hear you, but when was it stated that the series was retconned for the new characters?

Usually when that happens, it's pointed out or referenced somewhere

Also keep in mind that although bills was asleep, Whis was awake and functioning during the time babidi resurrected Majin Buu. And even with Majin Buu destroying whole planets on his way to finding goku on the supreme Kai planet, there was still no mention of Majin Buu whatso ever.
But that all came with making Bills canon. The fact that he and whis existed all through out the events of dragonball/ball z creates some minor plot holes

Edit: also if lord bills was weaker than Majin Buu when he sealed old Kai why would such a commotion be made by old Kai and king Kai after his awakening? Especially since god Kai can't be sensed in terms of strength? How would they even know he was magnitudes stronger than Majin Buu? All supporting the fact that Bills was Always that strong when considering anyone that appeared in dragonball z. So when he was made canon his status of universes strongest was retconned to included in being stronger than anyone that appeared in dragon ball z.

Further proof that the whole old kai Majin Buu thing being stronger is over written is what AT said himself.
"At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaioshin away inside a sword."

While in the manga old Kai claims that he was sealed because the person that sealed him Was afraid of his power of Unleashing dormant power beyond a person's limit.
And once it was stated that bills sealed him because of a trivial argument, it pretty much rendered what originally happened null and void. Hence the retcon

 

[iglazyass]

So based on the newest trailer, do you think Friezas next form will be similar to Coolers? Or something beyond it?

 

[thekid3456]

So based on the newest trailer, do you think Friezas next form will be similar to Coolers? Or something beyond it?

I don't think so. I think is going to be a slim Frieza. Just how Goku god mode was thin. Toriyama said he's not focused into big muscles anymore.

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

I don't think so. I think is going to be a slim Frieza. Just how Goku god mode was thin. Toriyama said he's not focused into big muscles anymore.

He only said in regards of the creation of SSG. Freiza is already relatively small in his final form he doesn't gain muscles until he hits 100%

 

[PRIME]

I hear you, but when was it stated that the series was retconned for the new characters?

Usually when that happens, it's pointed out or referenced somewhere

Also keep in mind that although bills was asleep, Whis was awake and functioning during the time babidi resurrected Majin Buu. And even with Majin Buu destroying whole planets on his way to finding goku on the supreme Kai planet, there was still no mention of Majin Buu whatso ever.
But that all came with making Bills canon. The fact that he and whis existed all through out the events of dragonball/ball z creates some minor plot holes

Edit: also if lord bills was weaker than Majin Buu when he sealed old Kai why would such a commotion be made by old Kai and king Kai after his awakening? Especially since god Kai can't be sensed in terms of strength? How would they even know he was magnitudes stronger than Majin Buu? All supporting the fact that Bills was Always that strong when considering anyone that appeared in dragonball z. So when he was made canon his status of universes strongest was retconned to included in being stronger than anyone that appeared in dragon ball z.

Further proof that the whole old kai Majin Buu thing being stronger is over written is what AT said himself.
"At this time, they got into an argument over some trifling thing, and a certain short-tempered God of Destruction sealed Elder Kaioshin away inside a sword."

While in the manga old Kai claims that he was sealed because the person that sealed him Was afraid of his power of Unleashing dormant power beyond a person's limit.
And once it was stated that bills sealed him because of a trivial argument, it pretty much rendered what originally happened null and void. Hence the retcon

Repped for the knowledge.

I see what you mean now

 

[CJMcfly26]

wrong thread

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

WTF Buu was never stronger than Bills. I can't believe ****** had to write dissertations about this

 

[jays25]

[emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji][emoji]128514[/emoji] dude is not having it. It's ok to be wrong man, it's just DBZ.

Nothing but the truth though People will argue to the absolute death, knowing full well they're wrong.

Not sure how hard it is to understand how retcons work, and if that's not understood then Beerus stomping SS3 Goku like it was nothing should've made it clear that he trumped every single person that's ever appeared in the DB universe up until that point. (And him beating SS-God Goku only adds to that)

 

[PRIME]

Come at me brahs

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

So, based on the tie-in manga, it seems like the premise is that Freeza becomes stronger simply through training.

Which actually makes sense, as Freeza in his natural state without an ounce of training was close to a Super Saiyan.

 

[antidope]

So he can train to the capacity of being on equal footing with SSJ3s and Goku who still retained SSJGod energy and was keeping up with Beerus?

I mean at least its not some nonsense excuse, there was no 100% good way to explain this Frieza power jump, but at least they're going the least ridiculous of options.

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

 
So he can train to the capacity of being on equal footing with SSJ3s and Goku who still retained SSJGod energy and was keeping up with Beerus?

Why not? Freeza is a mutant who was born with a power level in the multple millions and did absolutely no training his entire life

I'm actually not tripping off of this

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

So, based on the tie-in manga, it seems like the premise is that Freeza becomes stronger simply through training.

Which actually makes sense, as Freeza in his natural state without an ounce of training was close to a Super Saiyan.

I read a synopsis on the tie in manga and him training does make a lot of sense. He was absurdly strong with out any training whatsoever.

I may be wrong but I thought Shenron couldn't bring back someone dead longer than a year? Or is that just something in anime or a misinterpretation. Or did they just forget about it all together?

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

 Or did they just forget about it all together?

Probably just this. Unless Dende's dragon is different from Kami's dragon in this regard.

Another thing; in the manga Dende's dragon was powered up so that it could grant first two, and then three wishes in the Buu saga. But it seems like in every new movie or OVA they forget this and have him grant one

There's no reason that the dudes who revived Freeza wouldn't wish for him to have eternal life

 

[hypebeast5]

Said it in the Superman thread, the least known fact about DBZ is that Super Buu was way more powerful than Kid Buu. 

Agreed. Super Buu was way more powerful and is of pure evil.

Both of yall explain this

 

[KingdomFlatbush]

Both of yall explain this

Tired of explaining this just look through this thread or the Superman one for the answer

 

[frenchbreadbuilds]

Both of yall explain this

Pretty simple actually. At the most basic level Buu + people absorbed > Buu.

 

[hypebeast5]

Both of yall explain this

Pretty simple actually. At the most basic level Buu + people absorbed > Buu.

I found this to further explain it but thanks bro View media item 1408466