Official Ask A Logical Religious Person Thread. vol. Ask me anything.

[360wavesandxbox]

Originally Posted by an dee 51o

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Even at a young age, heaven did not seem like the most appealing place to spend eternity. The idea of eternity itself doesn't sit well with me either. Anyhow, my understanding is heaven is a climate controlled environment where all the goody 2 shoes gather and sing praise and worship to God for eternity.

It don't make sense goin' to heaven with the goodie-goodies
Dressed in white, I like black Timbs and black hoodies
God will probably have me on some real strict $#$@
No sleepin' all day, no gettin my *+%+ licked
Hangin' with the goodie-goodies loungin' in paradise
*!*# that $#$@, I wanna tote guns and shoot dice

Humans were never meant to reside in heaven for all eternity, thats a common misconception. After you die thats it, ur done, no afterlife, no heaven, no hell.. If heaven is so great and all like people (who may i add have never really proven to go and come back) then why is everyone so frantic to live.  When you consider the way that humans are created and the way this planet is created, we were all created to live on earth.  Sin altered our ability to live forever as we were intended, but still, earth is not some waiting room to see if you deserve to get to heaven or to suffer forever in "hell".  What kind of loving God would do that to his creation? and If he foresees all then why make us wait here on earth? Think about it..

 

[theta]

Originally Posted by Manglor

Ok i'll play.

The bible has it's share of errors and contradictions.

From simple things like...

Jeremiah 3:12 "...for I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever."

Jeremiah 17:4 "Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall be forever."

God seems a bit flip floppy...


To big things like saying saying over and over that the earth is flat.


So a logical man would indeed admit there are mistakes in the good book.


If you can admit THAT then how do you know what is right and what is wrong? How can you have complete faith in something that isn't perfect? Doesn't that mean every person just picks and chooses what to believe and what to ignore? Doesn't that negate everything?

Hm, well addressing the excerpts out of Jeremiah, the only thing that would cause them to contradict is if they were said at the same time. If they take on different contexts, then basically all thats happened is that God said to one group of people - 'Im not gonna forget this', and to another 'Youre lucky that I'm a good guy cuz Im gonna let this slide'. The fact that the events dont occur at the same time and place means that from a logical perspective, this doesnt constitute a contradiction.

With regards to the earth being flat, all that I know is that there are a few lines in revelations that talk about the four corners of the earth- which maybe can be interpreted literally as saying as being flat, but the terms 'four corners of the earth' and 'all ends of the earth' and the likes are used frequently in literature to mean the whole world. I do know that it also suggests the earth was round before modern science accepts it to be. Passages like: Isaiah 40:22 - http://It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are ... Now that I think about it, there are more than a few that suggest that its flat (beyond just an interpretation). The only response I'd have for this is that I generally approach the Bible partly from a documentation perspective. This is because it was written by a series of individuals claiming to record what had happened.

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Anyhow care to answer my "who created God?" question? I know for a fact no one has an answer to this, but I just want to know what your answer would be based on what you know about the scriptures.

Well yeah, I dont claim to know who created God, but I can tell you how I approach the issue. As I mentioned in my first response when considering Creationism vs Big Bang, I decided that everything had to have a cause provided that it was in its nature to have one. God, by very nature, does not have a creator given that he would be a divine, superior being. Its a tough concept to grasp, and I have to admit that Ive struggled a good deal with it as well.

And with respect to my knowledge of the scriptures, I try not to limit the debate to Christianity. Its generally a theism vs atheism issue. The fact that I cant justify a story or line from the bible shouldnt indicate the nonexistance of God and after a while, the longer you focus on debating something like the Bible, the dumber the arguments going to get. If its possible, focusing on the metaphysical issues here would be more productive.
________




Basically with a lot of this stuff i use abductive reasoning. That is, inference to the best explanation. If there isnt a better answer available, then it is logically valid to accept what the best explanation for the given problem is until otherwise provided.


Anyways, Im at work now so I cant post too much. I'll post a lot more later tonight once I get home.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Yen2dro3

If you lived in a third world country and live a sinless life but never heard of god or "Jesus" you go to hell?

My Christian teacher in HS discussed this and told us about the "Anonymous Christian." I think anonymous was the word not sure but it dealt with being a faithful follower of GOD's word without knowing it. Saying basically if you lived a good sinless life you would be accepted to in Heaven by default despite never hearing about Christianity. You're not punished because the religion never reached you.

I don't know how widely believed it is in the Christian community or accepted for that matter since the average misinformed/irrational/ignorant Christian would say other wise let alone in the Vatican

 

[heavily weighted]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

What sports did Jesus play as a child?

I doubt he played sports. Think of him as an awkward kid with a jewfro.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

What sports did Jesus play as a child?

 

[DCAllAfrican]

So how did he stay in shape? What did he do to stay in shape?

 

[heavily weighted]

The bible does not even enlighten us on the virgin birth. So I wouldn't really expect to know much about his childhood/teen years. Unless Theta can shed some light.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by DCAllAmerican

So how did he stay in shape? What did he do to stay in shape?

Carpentry and squats.

 

[its that dude]

Let's say I see a woman about to be robbed. I hear the robber say, "Give me your money or I'll kill you" to the woman. The robber has a gun to the woman's face. I'm behind the robber with a gun and I have the chance to save the woman by shooting the robber. The robber has no idea that I'm there. I choose not to save the woman because I don't feel like it. Bang. The woman is shot in the head and killed.

Can you honestly say I'm good person after I chose to let that woman die? I'm not asking if I'm a bad person, but am I a GOOD person?

Now, can you still say that your all-good God is...good? He's all-knowing, so he knew that the situation was coming. He's also all-powerful, but he let the chooses to let the woman be killed.

How can you say your God is all-good when he CHOOSES to let innocent people die?

I understand that humans have free will and all that bs, but so does God, more so because he's all-powerful. He chose to let that woman and millions of other innocent people die.

 

[hiphopdoc09]

@ these questions

 

[its that dude]

oh yea...

Can God make a burrito so hot that he Himself cannot eat it?

I'm totally serious on this one too.

 

[Master Zik]

Originally Posted by Heavily Weighted

The bible does not even enlighten us on the virgin birth. So I wouldn't really expect to know much about his childhood/teen years. Unless Theta can shed some light.

It's widely known Jesus goes from 3 to 30 in the bible. There's a grip of books excluded from the bible that have a couple tales about Jesus' youth. Anybody interested that don't want to read all the books and search could just check with the history channel and their DVD collections.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by Theta

Originally Posted by Manglor

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Anyhow care to answer my "who created God?" question? I know for a fact no one has an answer to this, but I just want to know what your answer would be based on what you know about the scriptures.

Well yeah, I dont claim to know who created God, but I can tell you how I approach the issue. As I mentioned in my first response when considering Creationism vs Big Bang, I decided that everything had to have a cause provided that it was in its nature to have one. God, by very nature, does not have a creator given that he would be a divine, superior being. Its a tough concept to grasp, and I have to admit that Ive struggled a good deal with it as well.

And with respect to my knowledge of the scriptures, I try not to limit the debate to Christianity. Its generally a theism vs atheism issue. The fact that I cant justify a story or line from the bible shouldnt indicate the nonexistance of God and after a while, the longer you focus on debating something like the Bible, the dumber the arguments going to get. If its possible, focusing on the metaphysical issues here would be more productive.
________




Basically with a lot of this stuff i use abductive reasoning. That is, inference to the best explanation. If there isnt a better answer available, then it is logically valid to accept what the best explanation for the given problem is until otherwise provided.


Anyways, Im at work now so I cant post too much. I'll post a lot more later tonight once I get home.

So God, the supreme being, has always existed and has no creator.  The reason I ask this is the reason many people give for being religious is that everything has a creator (God is of course conveniently exempt from this concept). Nothing comes from nothing. With your reasoning, is should be conceivable that the Universe could have come from nothing as well?

 

[chokeonsmoke]

what about mentally challenged people?

 

[Master Zik]

Nice Anton

The same critique in that "Atheists believe the universe came from nothing, we have no purpose and when we die nothing happens" pic can be applied to GOD's origins lol I never took that critique as a fault but I'm mad I never realized the similarity.

Originally Posted by chokeonsmoke

what about mentally challenged people?

There's passages in all 3 holy txt that say the mentally challenged are being punished for their past lives. I remember specifically it being in the Torah and Quran tho(dude was reading it on tv saying that's why some ppl are born blind, deaf, etc.)

 

[zerogravity23]

[color= rgb(0, 0, 0)][/color][color= rgb(0, 0, 0)][/color]why would an all-powerful, all-good, all-ethical god allow us to be victims of horrible diseases, predators, poisonous plants, natural disasters, birth defects, and to be victims of evil perpetrated by others?

 

[gambit215]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity23

[color= rgb(0, 0, 0)][/color][color= rgb(0, 0, 0)][/color]why would an all-powerful, all-good, all-ethical god allow us to be victims of horrible diseases, predators, poisonous plants, natural disasters, birth defects, and to be victims of evil perpetrated by others?

its called Free Will........plain and simple

heres my question? Why does the Catholic Church and more specifically the Christian faith constantly perpetuate a Caucasian Jesus when at this point in society it is common FACT that he was not a blue eye, blond hair man? Does the Pope and other religious leaders fail to realize that such a fabrication and the constant ignorance supports many racist radicals?

 

[melovp]

Where did the phrase "God forbid" originate from?

%##% makes my ears bleed.

My mother's beliefs are shaky as hell, but she says god forbid all the time. Why didn't God stop her from getting laid off? Why didn't God step in and get her a new job?

I can't subscribe to Christianity's discrepancies. Why did God let my uncle get cancer?

 

[zerogravity23]

I’m not talking about what evil humans do to others, that could be explained as a misuse of our free will. I’m talking about diseases and genetic birth defects especially as they afflict children, that have nothing to do with free will...... plain and simple.

 

[antonlavey]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity23

I’m not talking about what evil humans do to others, that could be explained as a misuse of our free will. I’m talking about diseases and genetic birth defects especially as they afflict children, that have nothing to do with free will...... plain and simple.

It's part of a higher plan? It's God's will? Because Chewbaca is an 8 foot tall wookie.

 

[davidisgodly]

Anton, you cool in my books, but the answers to those questions you ask will only leave you more frustrated. The answers won't really help your point or make your point more valid.

 

[zerogravity23]

Originally Posted by AntonLaVey

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity23

I’m not talking about what evil humans do to others, that could be explained as a misuse of our free will. I’m talking about diseases and genetic birth defects especially as they afflict children, that have nothing to do with free will...... plain and simple.

It's part of a higher plan? It's God's will? Because Chewbaca is an 8 foot tall wookie.

[color= rgb(0, 0, 0)] [/color]

lol, than that would mean that god was not knowledgeable or powerful enough to have devised a better plan that didn't involve torturing innocent babies.

 

[mjsaver]

Originally Posted by gambit215

heres my question? Why does the Catholic Church and more specifically the Christian faith constantly perpetuate a Caucasian Jesus when at this point in society it is common FACT that he was not a blue eye, blond hair man? Does the Pope and other religious leaders fail to realize that such a fabrication and the constant ignorance supports many racist radicals?

This...

  

 

[gambit215]

Originally Posted by ZeroGravity23

I’m not talking about what evil humans do to others, that could be explained as a misuse of our free will. I’m talking about diseases and genetic birth defects especially as they afflict children, that have nothing to do with free will...... plain and simple.

Diseases are caused by nature, we screw Nature, God did not put anything on Earth to purposefully cause harm to us....plain and simple...

Universe has been around for BILLIONS of years..................some of you think God is a magic genie that conjures up bad things for people at the snap of a finger....

P.S.   please show the Creator some respect and press shift when you have the audacity to type about him

 

[though]

[h3]

A Logical Religious Person

[/h3]thats an oxymoron