Official 2017-2018 Knicks season thread

[nick.]

Y'all want a high pick but also want the team to win now

 

[ballinsam23]

Y'all want a high pick but also want the team to win now

The problem is with the way our team is currently constructed you can't tell these guys to tank. They're gonna go out there and try to win as many games as possible. Unless we trade Lee and Kanter for 2nd round picks we're gonna end up with the 12-15th pick. We're kinda in a **** position because our baby Giannis isn't even developing properly, we most likely won't make the playoffs, we'll be stuck with a late pick in a top heavy draft, and on top of that we literally have no cap space.

 

[nick.]

Players will always want to win. The tank comes when the coach or front office prioritizes development.

 

[bigjny88]

Players will always want to win. The tank comes when the coach or front office prioritizes development.

Had to correct you right there, my man. A coach can prioritize development, but they are no different than players...........their job is to put players in position TO WIN. Whether we are in a tanking process or not, the coach's job is to put players in a WINNING POSITION.

Any coach that prioritizes their players to SUCK, they deserve to NOT COACH on a basketball team ever. So NO, I cannot make the coach one of the sole decision makers in a tanking/rebuild process.

The front office is the one that deserves sole responsibility of planning out a TANK JOB/REBUILD. They build the roster to where we make ourselves "let competitive," and they determine whether the team wants to remain in "mediocre purgatory" between playoffs and high draft pick with their roster building decisions.

 

[ballinsam23]

Look at the Bulls. Easily could have a top 5 pick if they wanted to. Arguably have a brighter future than ours, but are going on winning streaks here and there.

Of course their front office wants a top pick, but unless they shut down someone for the season or mess with rotations it won't happen.

Last year we didn't even try to tank, but we sucked so badly that we ended up with the 8th pick. Only the sixers go out there and purposely lose games.

 

[nick.]

Hoiberg has done a great job with that roster.

Also, everyone who plays big minutes is part of their future: Markkanen, Dunn, Lavine, Valentine, Holiday, Portis, Nwaba, etc.

 

[gaiiige]

there's still plenty of time to tank just depends on what we do at the trade deadline

 

[ballinsam23]

Hoiberg is a new school coach who understands player development and running an offense today.

This is why Hornacek is a huge problem. Priotizes mid range shots while literally running zero plays for KP. Also Frank has shown zero consistent progress all season mainly because we have Jarret ****in Jack out there for 35 min. If we're gonna prioritize player development get rid of Hornacek and trade Kanter + Lee for 2nd rounders.

 

[njavier03]

As long as Horny doesn’t get fired, the tank keeps on rolling. He’s the most consistent at ******* up games, so we need him more than anyone right now

 

[olx9o]

embrace the tank

 

[JJ Goon]

Well we play the Warriors next, so the tank continues..

In all seriousness, I didn't want us to tank. But when you are losing to bad or injury hit teams like the Lakers, Hawks, Griz, Bulls then what can you expect? That isn't a playoff team.

 

[gridebounca11]

the goal for this team , as constructed, is playoffs.

as much I , and im sure others, as fans want to lose games, the players arent gonna do it. maybe jeff really is tank commanding?

its easy for me to sit and critique his rotations and offensive and defensive sets, but im getting tired of it. hes trash but hes not the reason we've dropped so many .

but then I look at what we do out there sometimes and Im just appalled. theres literally no flow, and if it aint ISO, its over.

THJR at least takes it upon himself to try and get something going. i appreciate that he has the cojones to actually shoot 3s or drive to the rim for a layup.

its cringey watching frank dribble the ball up , pick up his dribble, pass to KOQ to make a play. or Kanter. it drives me absolutely insane. i guess he thinks hes setting up the offense?

i was against the naysayers for him but hes really gettin my aggy with how timid he is. on drives to the rim hes literally not even looking to attempt a FG. that hurts the team. is he soft? is he too assist minded?

we have to root for Ws because the team wont lose enough games to be in the lottery.

 

[floodarea]

The goal for this team is Miles Bridges

 

[gridebounca11]

just remember that Jarrett jack will hold Curry for most of the game tomorrow.

remember.

 

[nick.]

an iconic moment

 

[the 718 truth]

Hire a coach. Force an antiquated, unfamiliar system on him. Sign and draft players that don’t fit his style of coaching. Blame coach. Rinse, repeat.

 

[ballinsam23]

What system are we forcing? That was a good excuse last year. Now? Na.

A good coach puts his players in a position to succeed. He emphasizes their strengths. Hornacek was a shooter and I don't think it's a coincidence that the only plays we run are for Lee or Dougie. Everything else is a damn iso or push push push.

Look at Brad Stevens the past years or what Popovich has done for 20 years. If Hornacek was the coach of the Spurs with their current roster they'd win 20 games max without Kawhi.

 

[the gr8est]

Hire a coach. Force an antiquated, unfamiliar system on him. Sign and draft players that don’t fit his style of coaching. Blame coach. Rinse, repeat.

100%.

This team isn't constructed for the style we all want to see.

We all want to see attacking and 3s, but dont have the PG to do that stuff.

We all want to see a faster pace but we always have a low post center next to Porzingis at almost all times because we have 15 on the roster, which is why I never loved the return we got from the Melo trade. Sure, we were never getting equal value. I love Kanter and he is a very nice young player. But he's also a low post center with a bad contract we will most likely lose for nothing or overpay if we choose to resign him. I wish we would have at least gotten pieces back for Melo that filled team needs. I would have gladly accepted a worse player than Kanter who helped fill a need and had some potential over Kanter.

We all want KP to go back to what he was doing early in the season but he has been targeted on defense and doesn't have the help necessary to get off clean looks. Plus we have 35 centers on the team so we play KP at the 4 and rely on him to post up smaller defenders and shoot over them instead of playing the 5 and relying on pick and rolls without someone else clogging the lane and him taking bigger slower defenders off the dribble and shooting 3s because they play off of him, something that I have been emphasizing since the day we drafted him but the front office seems to always start a Robin Lopez or Noah or Kanter with him... That's the main reason why he either shoots it 10-25 or some **** or has a game like the Lakers where he shoots above 50% but on like 12 shot attempts.

Hornacek is doing what he can with the cards he is dealt. It worked extremely well in the beginning of the season because he managed to orchestrate a offense that keeps the ball moving despite having very little penetration, which is outdated in the NBA today. But defenses have caught up to it and adapted and that's the main reason we suck right now. IMO that's not on Jeff.

My main issue with Hornacek has been the rotations. He plays way too many players, we need MUCH less Baker, and more Frank, especially in a game like we had vs the Lakers. Frank came out and had a red hot start with 6 points and 3 assists almost instantly but then Hornacek goes and subs him out for Jack like he always does halfway through the 2nd quarter. Frank never got back in that groove and only winded up playing just 17 minutes compared to 26 by Jack and 13 for Baker. Jeff needs to just let Frank go and loosen the leash when he gets in a groove.

I'll blame Hornacek for **** like that. But as far as this team not running, penetrating, shooting 3s, not getting KP the clean looks he used to get (although Hornacek could let him play behind the 3 point line a little more, which he seemed to try to incorporate vs the Lakers but still with not a ton of success because he plays PF and always has a smaller quick defender on him who plays him out to the 3 point line as opposed to playing the 5 and having someone like Brook Lopez on him who he could burn by), that is all on the front office as far as I'm concerned and I've been saying that from the start of the season.

 

[nick.]

A good coach doesn't let Jarrett Jack, Michael Beasley, and Enes Kanter share the floor

 

[the gr8est]

Look at Brad Stevens the past years or what Popovich has done for 20 years. If Hornacek was the coach of the Spurs with their current roster they'd win 20 games max without Kawhi.

I don't think anyone has ever compared Hornacek to Pop/Stephens but he is a smart basketball guy who, when given a team set up to play his preferred style of play, can get a team to significantly overachieve like he did when he led a supposedly tanking Suns to 48 wins.

I'm not saying that Hornacek is the coach that this team needs or even that we shouldn't fire him. I'm just saying he isn't the cause of this team's issues. Not even close.

 

[ballinsam23]

A good coach would've also adjusted long time ago just like teams have adjusted to us.

Start Frank and bring Kanter off the bench, just like 90% of other coaches had him doing.

 

[nick.]

What're y'all thoughts on us being only a few games better than teams like the Nets, Lakers, and Bulls?

I think it's fair to say we have a better team than them on paper but on the court they kick our ***. Is it play style? Coaching? The personnel?

 

[the gr8est]

A good coach would've also adjusted long time ago just like teams have adjusted to us.

Start Frank and bring Kanter off the bench, just like 90% of other coaches had him doing.

Then you cut O'Quinn out of the rotation. Knicks dont have the depth on the wing to start KP at the 5 because they have 4 centers. You can't give KOQ and Kanter significant minutes without basically playing KP at the 4 regardless of what position he starts the game playing. And KOQ has been one of our better players and deserves minutes. You bench him and you are relying very heavily all of a sudden on McDermott, Ron Baker, and Lance Thomas. Not that simple. The Knicks is set up for KP to play the 4.

 

[ballinsam23]

Hustle and effort is 80% on the coach. It's something a preacher (ex: Mark Jackson) would emphasize. For a young team you kinda need a coach like that, to atleast get the players to play hard.

Once that young team takes that next step then you fire the preacher and hire an Xs and Os guy. Very rarely do you have a guy that can do both.

 

[the 718 truth]

100%.

This team isn't constructed for the style we all want to see.

We all want to see attacking and 3s, but dont have the PG to do that stuff.

We all want to see a faster pace but we always have a low post center next to Porzingis at almost all times because we have 15 on the roster, which is why I never loved the return we got from the Melo trade. Sure, we were never getting equal value. I love Kanter and he is a very nice young player. But he's also a low post center with a bad contract we will most likely lose for nothing or overpay if we choose to resign him. I wish we would have at least gotten pieces back for Melo that filled team needs. I would have gladly accepted a worse player than Kanter who helped fill a need and had some potential over Kanter.

We all want KP to go back to what he was doing early in the season but he has been targeted on defense and doesn't have the help necessary to get off clean looks. Plus we have 35 centers on the team so we play KP at the 4 and rely on him to post up smaller defenders and shoot over them instead of playing the 5 and relying on pick and rolls without someone else clogging the lane and him taking bigger slower defenders off the dribble and shooting 3s because they play off of him, something that I have been emphasizing since the day we drafted him but the front office seems to always start a Robin Lopez or Noah or Kanter with him... That's the main reason why he either shoots it 10-25 or some **** or has a game like the Lakers where he shoots above 50% but on like 12 shot attempts.

Hornacek is doing what he can with the cards he is dealt. It worked extremely well in the beginning of the season because he managed to orchestrate a offense that keeps the ball moving despite having very little penetration, which is outdated in the NBA today. But defenses have caught up to it and adapted and that's the main reason we suck right now. IMO that's not on Jeff.

My main issue with Hornacek has been the rotations. He plays way too many players, we need MUCH less Baker, and more Frank, especially in a game like we had vs the Lakers. Frank came out and had a red hot start with 6 points and 3 assists almost instantly but then Hornacek goes and subs him out for Jack like he always does halfway through the 2nd quarter. Frank never got back in that groove and only winded up playing just 17 minutes compared to 26 by Jack and 13 for Baker. Jeff needs to just let Frank go and loosen the leash when he gets in a groove.

I'll blame Hornacek for **** like that. But as far as this team not running, penetrating, shooting 3s, not getting KP the clean looks he used to get (although Hornacek could let him play behind the 3 point line a little more, which he seemed to try to incorporate vs the Lakers but still with not a ton of success because he plays PF and always has a smaller quick defender on him who plays him out to the 3 point line as opposed to playing the 5 and having someone like Brook Lopez on him who he could burn by), that is all on the front office as far as I'm concerned and I've been saying that from the start of the season.

I don't think anyone has ever compared Hornacek to Pop/Stephens but he is a smart basketball guy who, when given a team set up to play his preferred style of play, can get a team to significantly overachieve like he did when he led a supposedly tanking Suns to 48 wins.

I'm not saying that Hornacek is the coach that this team needs or even that we shouldn't fire him. I'm just saying he isn't the cause of this team's issues. Not even close.