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Official 2017-2018 Knicks season thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by pr0phecy718,
- Start date
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I would hate that idea because it would be a really really terrible idea.
I love Kawhi but it's uncertain if he'll ever be the player he was before the injury last year. He's gonna be turning 27 this summer and there's a fear that he's peaked already and is also now injury prone. He certainly didn't look great when he came back this season and he's now at risk to miss the entire year... KP is 22 and has gotten better every season thus far, so hopefully by next year he will be a legit superstar.
Beyond that, having even the most optimistic version of Kawhi wouldn't make this team a winner ANY time soon, so why even risk it to hopefully have a peak-Kawhi ready to win with this team when he is 30 (minimum)? Come on now. Would maybe be the most short sighted move in a Knicks history littered with short sighted moves.
And yes, that is just rationally breaking down the move without even considering the utter ridiculousness/unrealisticness of it, although I doubt Pop would axe it if given the chance.
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KP has Tim fresh off an injury and 0 other help. Kanter is playing well but he’s not a play maker. He has 50 year old Jack starting. Timid Frank and D League Burke off the bench. Embiid has Simmons, Towns has Teague/Butler/Wiggins, and Giannis has Bledsoe/Brogdon.
I’m always hard on KP but until he has a solid cast around him I’m not gonna judge his performance and talk about trading him
I’m always hard on KP but until he has a solid cast around him I’m not gonna judge his performance and talk about trading him
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Thats why Frank should be getting minutes, thought that was the plan with this season being a wash, not sure when or why we switched gears.
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As New York fans we always turn to prematurely turn KP to a deity and then prematurely write him off once he starts to fall back down to Earth. This has now happened every year of KP's career and while it's a little bit concerning, it's also important to remember that he's still working out his kinks as a well-rounded 82-game-a-season player and also that there are positives to take away from it all as well.
If you take a look at KP's career thus far, he has started off every year strong and trailed off after the New Year, BUT the good news is that he has been able to work on himself enough in the offseason to make the player everybody went crazy about in the beginning of the season his new baseline and build off of it from there.
Like his rookie year, he was putting up close to 20 a game and looking like the ROY and then he trailed off, lost ROY to KAT, and finished the season averaging just short of 15. Then last year he started the year looking like he'd make the all-star game and average 20 a game only to trail off, not make the all-star team and averaging 18 and change. This year he came out the gate looking like an unstoppable MVP candidate only to trail off once again and become a consistent 20 PPG scorer/all-star.
So if you go by that path, it would be realistic to assume KP's next jump is to become the player we saw in the beginning of the season on a more regular basis. Maybe next year he'll have a season like Giannis is right now, where he came out absolutely scorched earth and has sort of fallen back to form (some) while still establishing himself as a legit superstar/all-star game starter and likely at least 2nd-team all-NBA type player.
So I wouldn't be too discouraged by Porzingis' recent regression, especially when you consider that by the beginning of the following season he has always come back much improved and put his previous season's late-season regression to rest, until it happened again, but with a new and improved baseline.
But hopefully the Knicks will also do their part to make sure KP regressions stop becoming commonplace as well. I mean, he certainly has to take some accountability for it himself and then there's definitely some of it that still comes with getting used to the rigors of the NBA schedule, and now getting used to being a #1 in the NBA, and also coaches having more to go on defensively as the season picks up. But the more support we put around him should help him out greatly as well. Particularly at PG, and that's gotta be the hope for Frank starting next season.
It's also great to see that at least his defense is becoming a consistent bonus all year, and I truly hope him finishing at or near the top of the League in shot blocking this season would finally encourage the front office that they don't need yet another RoLo/Noah/Kanter to start next to him at center. I think moving him to the 5 would benefit him in almost all areas of his game besides posting up and defending post players, which almost nobody regularly does anymore, besides the Knicks.
I think playing the 5 would improve KP alot as a rebounder as he'd stop playing so far away from the basket and relying on someone like Kanter for rebounding help and also giving up the easy boards to. And it'd especially benefit him offensively where the faster team pace of not having a low-post center on the floor at all times should benefit his style of game in itself.
But his individual mismatch nightmare as a perimeter oriented 5 is much greater / more modern than his mismatch potential as an extremely tall 4, which as we have seen lately is frustrating due to the amount of post ups / midranges it leads to instead of 3s / drives/ pick and rolls, and leaves him wayyy more susceptible to double teams - ESPECIALLY with another center in the paint with him.
But the point is, as usual, try to stay thinking rationally and not get too discouraged right now over Porzingis or other young guys on the team.
If you take a look at KP's career thus far, he has started off every year strong and trailed off after the New Year, BUT the good news is that he has been able to work on himself enough in the offseason to make the player everybody went crazy about in the beginning of the season his new baseline and build off of it from there.
Like his rookie year, he was putting up close to 20 a game and looking like the ROY and then he trailed off, lost ROY to KAT, and finished the season averaging just short of 15. Then last year he started the year looking like he'd make the all-star game and average 20 a game only to trail off, not make the all-star team and averaging 18 and change. This year he came out the gate looking like an unstoppable MVP candidate only to trail off once again and become a consistent 20 PPG scorer/all-star.
So if you go by that path, it would be realistic to assume KP's next jump is to become the player we saw in the beginning of the season on a more regular basis. Maybe next year he'll have a season like Giannis is right now, where he came out absolutely scorched earth and has sort of fallen back to form (some) while still establishing himself as a legit superstar/all-star game starter and likely at least 2nd-team all-NBA type player.
So I wouldn't be too discouraged by Porzingis' recent regression, especially when you consider that by the beginning of the following season he has always come back much improved and put his previous season's late-season regression to rest, until it happened again, but with a new and improved baseline.
But hopefully the Knicks will also do their part to make sure KP regressions stop becoming commonplace as well. I mean, he certainly has to take some accountability for it himself and then there's definitely some of it that still comes with getting used to the rigors of the NBA schedule, and now getting used to being a #1 in the NBA, and also coaches having more to go on defensively as the season picks up. But the more support we put around him should help him out greatly as well. Particularly at PG, and that's gotta be the hope for Frank starting next season.
It's also great to see that at least his defense is becoming a consistent bonus all year, and I truly hope him finishing at or near the top of the League in shot blocking this season would finally encourage the front office that they don't need yet another RoLo/Noah/Kanter to start next to him at center. I think moving him to the 5 would benefit him in almost all areas of his game besides posting up and defending post players, which almost nobody regularly does anymore, besides the Knicks.
I think playing the 5 would improve KP alot as a rebounder as he'd stop playing so far away from the basket and relying on someone like Kanter for rebounding help and also giving up the easy boards to. And it'd especially benefit him offensively where the faster team pace of not having a low-post center on the floor at all times should benefit his style of game in itself.
But his individual mismatch nightmare as a perimeter oriented 5 is much greater / more modern than his mismatch potential as an extremely tall 4, which as we have seen lately is frustrating due to the amount of post ups / midranges it leads to instead of 3s / drives/ pick and rolls, and leaves him wayyy more susceptible to double teams - ESPECIALLY with another center in the paint with him.
But the point is, as usual, try to stay thinking rationally and not get too discouraged right now over Porzingis or other young guys on the team.
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It’s like y’all go into every year expecting it to be the season, but it never is.
Just try to enjoy the fact that we have a young team that’s growing together. Y’all always seem so eager to tear it down.
We writing off 19 year olds, now.
Just try to enjoy the fact that we have a young team that’s growing together. Y’all always seem so eager to tear it down.
We writing off 19 year olds, now.
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There's a reason he only played 9 minutes.
But it is literally useless trying to logically talk basketball with most Knicks fans.
Y'all got it.
If you watched his performance the last game and your first instinct is to point fingers at other people, instead of honestly critiquing Frank's lack of progress and apparent regression (possible rookie wall) there's no need to even talk basketball with y'all. That's fangirl ****.
But it is literally useless trying to logically talk basketball with most Knicks fans.
Y'all got it.
If you watched his performance the last game and your first instinct is to point fingers at other people, instead of honestly critiquing Frank's lack of progress and apparent regression (possible rookie wall) there's no need to even talk basketball with y'all. That's fangirl ****.
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Both sides are wrong imo.
You're calling him a bust after half a season in the NBA when everyone knew this 19 year year old would take time since he's raw af. The other side is hyping him up to one day be some kind of star because of his physical tools.
Hopefully he ends up somewhere in the middle, but as of right now from the small sample size we've seen he's headed towards bust/average role player category.
I think both sides can agree that he needs to make huge improvements in pretty much every thing in the offseason.
You're calling him a bust after half a season in the NBA when everyone knew this 19 year year old would take time since he's raw af. The other side is hyping him up to one day be some kind of star because of his physical tools.
Hopefully he ends up somewhere in the middle, but as of right now from the small sample size we've seen he's headed towards bust/average role player category.
I think both sides can agree that he needs to make huge improvements in pretty much every thing in the offseason.
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chill he got the braids thats half the battle
Burke, Beasley and THe Klaw doing it for the bruddas in cornrows in 2018
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RIGHT NOW HES A SCRUB AND HIS CEILING IF EVERYTHING CLICKS IS A BIGGER VERSION OF MIAMI HEAT MARIO CHALMERS. HIT THE OPEN THREE WHEN NEEDED AND PLAY REALLY GOOD DEFENSE NIGHT IN AND NIGHT OUT. HE CAN'T DO NEITHER RIGHT NOW BUT WHEN HE PUTS IT ALL TOGETHER HE MIGHT BE ABLE TO. HE'S NOT AS TALENTED AS I THOUGHT HE WAS AND EVEN AT #8 THE PICK WAS A REACH. NOT REALLY ATHLETIC, NOT FAST, NOT A JUMPER, NOT CRAFTY. JUST A TALL ***** WITH LONG ARMS WHO CAN'T FINISH WHOS MOST LIKELY PLAYING OUT OF POSITION DUE TO STRUGGLE HANDLES
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Frank is so raw if he was a steak he'd still be grazing in the pasture but on the real the issue is he was a LOTTERY pick. We tanked as people like to say, for Frank? No one cares about Dotsons lack of progress or improvement. There's really no need to comment on Frank's lack of progress at this point anymore because in the words of White Also it is what it is. He should however be given his rookie contract before being labeled a 'bust'
but on the real the issue is he was a LOTTERY pick. We tanked as people like to say, for Frank? No one cares about Dotsons lack of progress or improvement. There's really no need to comment on Frank's lack of progress at this point anymore because in the words of White Also it is what it is. He should however be given his rookie contract before being labeled a 'bust'
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Honestly Frank does need a bit more fire to him and that comes with confidence. So that's going to take some time.
Hornacek is coaching to keep his job. Frank is the only young guy who plays game to game. Willy and Dotson hand out more cups of gatorade than anything. Hornacek ain't willing to let these guys go through the rough patches of learning because we're still somewhat in it and that's where the conundrum starts. It seems like its always development vs. results.
Hornacek is coaching to keep his job. Frank is the only young guy who plays game to game. Willy and Dotson hand out more cups of gatorade than anything. Hornacek ain't willing to let these guys go through the rough patches of learning because we're still somewhat in it and that's where the conundrum starts. It seems like its always development vs. results.
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Who do you think we can get with that package of Frank, Willy, Lee?
SAS didn't trade Aldridge, most likely won't trade Kawhi either. The defensive potential of a Frank-Kawhi-KP would be sick as hell
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We’re not getting Kawhi.
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Dude still has his whole life in front of him to be good and he has the physical tools to do it.
I'm just calling it like it is, being honest. He could be good one day but he's not now. And that's all I've ever been saying.
I'm not mad at Hornacek keeping him on the bench when he's playing like trash either. Why give him 30 minutes when he can't even handle 15? That will irreparably crush his confidence. People say he's too young to judge, "he's only 19!"...same people screaming he should be starting in the same breath. Pick one lol
Let Jeff keep bringing him along slowly and let him earn his minutes, like every one else. He hasn't deserve to play more than he has thus far. Jeff is coaching to win like every other coach in the league and he made the right move last game that resulted in a W.
If Frank shows improvement, I'll be the first to applaud him cause I'm actually observing his game. But he's been super sup-bar thus far and I have no reason to lie about what I'm seeing.
I'm just calling it like it is, being honest. He could be good one day but he's not now. And that's all I've ever been saying.
I'm not mad at Hornacek keeping him on the bench when he's playing like trash either. Why give him 30 minutes when he can't even handle 15? That will irreparably crush his confidence. People say he's too young to judge, "he's only 19!"...same people screaming he should be starting in the same breath. Pick one lol
Let Jeff keep bringing him along slowly and let him earn his minutes, like every one else. He hasn't deserve to play more than he has thus far. Jeff is coaching to win like every other coach in the league and he made the right move last game that resulted in a W.
If Frank shows improvement, I'll be the first to applaud him cause I'm actually observing his game. But he's been super sup-bar thus far and I have no reason to lie about what I'm seeing.
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I remember when he was closing games playing whole 4th quarters when he was playing decent. Now he can't do anything at all really so his minutes are reduced
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Fair analysis
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Constantly repeating Frank isn't good right now isn't a statement worthy of any praise or even insightful. Repping each other in a damn echo chamber.
Pretending the other side is super delusional to justify repeating the same thing over and over again is bull ****.
Just comes off like you want everyone else to join you in ****ting on Frank which is pointless.
Iman Shumpert didn't get this level of consistent criticism after we all thought he had potential, showed his *** when he jacked up like 20 shots one game building a brick wall, and then for the rest of the season regressed to being a good defender at the age of 20 that went on in later seasons to be better shooting the 3. But he mostly suffered several knee and shoulder injuries that prevented him from having a lasting impact on the team.
Remember when dudes was ****ting on Frank due to not playing ******* summer league and preaseason games due to injury? Season started and that narrative died quick 2 months in.
****, Landry Fields got more of a chance and he amounted up to basically being an energy glue type guy. Shot ******* sucked, had no handles, and was an average defender. His best attributes being his athleticism where every now and then caught lobs. We didn't start ****ting on Landry hard until his final seasons here. Y'all ****** gave Jorts more of a shot than Frank.
Mind you this was inn a Knicks team that in a short time got Amar'e and was considered and expected to be a playoff team and then got Melon and JR and got higher expectations.
This past off-season, many expected this team to suck way more than it actually does now but dudes talking about Frank like he's the biggest bust in the league because he's not progressing at the pace you would like or simply cuz you never cared for dude off jump or its still some weird Phil fixation thing.
I don't even hype up Frank like that but been willing to give him a chance even as he struggles though his rookie season and looks mostly bad. Cuz right now none of what the team does matter. In a new era where management says they want to keep their picks and focus on developing young talent I don't get this urge to constantly trash Frank like the majority of us hyped him up before he was picked and we all expected greatness from day 1.
If there's no progress from Frank this time next year he'll get traded and probably develop elsewhere. Simple as that. And if he only amounts to being a 3 & D guy so what? Not like the Knicks ever been lucky at striking gold in the lottery the past 20 years. You seriously have to look at what the Sixers, Wiz, Wolves, Pelicans, etc. did and had to go through as they drafted and signed young players to develop their squads. I don't get the source of frustration like we paying Frank 100mil or traded a bunch of all stars for him. Ya can't be that bitter and willing to **** on a 19 yr old foreign rookie.
This isn't the Knicks team or current era to be wild impatient. I don't get how y'all can sit through Walsh's era but be looking for immediate gratification now. The team sucks. So if Frank doesn't pan out we'll have plenty other opportunities to draft a young pg. **** don't matter that much right now.
Pretending the other side is super delusional to justify repeating the same thing over and over again is bull ****.
Just comes off like you want everyone else to join you in ****ting on Frank which is pointless.
Iman Shumpert didn't get this level of consistent criticism after we all thought he had potential, showed his *** when he jacked up like 20 shots one game building a brick wall, and then for the rest of the season regressed to being a good defender at the age of 20 that went on in later seasons to be better shooting the 3. But he mostly suffered several knee and shoulder injuries that prevented him from having a lasting impact on the team.
Remember when dudes was ****ting on Frank due to not playing ******* summer league and preaseason games due to injury? Season started and that narrative died quick 2 months in.
****, Landry Fields got more of a chance and he amounted up to basically being an energy glue type guy. Shot ******* sucked, had no handles, and was an average defender. His best attributes being his athleticism where every now and then caught lobs. We didn't start ****ting on Landry hard until his final seasons here. Y'all ****** gave Jorts more of a shot than Frank.
Mind you this was inn a Knicks team that in a short time got Amar'e and was considered and expected to be a playoff team and then got Melon and JR and got higher expectations.
This past off-season, many expected this team to suck way more than it actually does now but dudes talking about Frank like he's the biggest bust in the league because he's not progressing at the pace you would like or simply cuz you never cared for dude off jump or its still some weird Phil fixation thing.
I don't even hype up Frank like that but been willing to give him a chance even as he struggles though his rookie season and looks mostly bad. Cuz right now none of what the team does matter. In a new era where management says they want to keep their picks and focus on developing young talent I don't get this urge to constantly trash Frank like the majority of us hyped him up before he was picked and we all expected greatness from day 1.
If there's no progress from Frank this time next year he'll get traded and probably develop elsewhere. Simple as that. And if he only amounts to being a 3 & D guy so what? Not like the Knicks ever been lucky at striking gold in the lottery the past 20 years. You seriously have to look at what the Sixers, Wiz, Wolves, Pelicans, etc. did and had to go through as they drafted and signed young players to develop their squads. I don't get the source of frustration like we paying Frank 100mil or traded a bunch of all stars for him. Ya can't be that bitter and willing to **** on a 19 yr old foreign rookie.
This isn't the Knicks team or current era to be wild impatient. I don't get how y'all can sit through Walsh's era but be looking for immediate gratification now. The team sucks. So if Frank doesn't pan out we'll have plenty other opportunities to draft a young pg. **** don't matter that much right now.
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Frank probably in here reading all this like
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Gallo's rookie season was way worse than Frank's and he was nice as a soph.
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Gallo spent most the season hurt so the fans werent expecting much when he came back.
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All I know is we better be big sellers at the deadline
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All I know is I’ve never seen a guard that’s a “project” that can’t dribble or shoot and is afraid to dribble or shoot.
