Offical: Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez IV thread.

[jking0821]

@tyisny, I don't think anyone is arguing the fact that Pacquiao got caught with a perfectly timed counter shot. What we're suspicious of is how different Marquez looked as a fighter on Sat compared to all of his past fights. He's never been a devastating puncher like that. That was just surreal. I'm talking about the first knock down, too. He had never dropped Pacquiao in any of the previous 36 rounds that they fought. Pacquiao's power, on the other hand, was consistent with all of his previous fights. He's always been a heavy-handed puncher.

this.

although hopkins was still dominant at the same age

Hopkins was dominant but not with power at that age. He was always a defensive genius in the ring and defined the term "crafty veteran".

Yeah i am in a little disbelief i guess you could say. But like Trav T said.....just based on the first 3 fights. Marquez caught manny flush in other fights and manny more or less withstood them. Just seemed strange to me that he looked amazing for 39 and kept saying "i trained very hard" as if he is trying to compensate for the inevitable questions of "since when did you pack that much power in a punch?".

But hey props to both men the fight was crazy entertaining.

 

[trav t]

If you're not suspicious of Marquez's new found training secrets and physique, here are some pics to look at.

2009 (Mayweather fight):
-Weighed in at 142
-Age 36
View media item 165356
2012 (Pacquiao IV):
-Here he comes looking like a chiseled Roman statue
-Weighed in at 143
-Age 39
View media item 165359
2009 (Mayweather fight):
-Notice the slight softness around his midsection. That is completely normal for a fighter at age 36.
-Unofficial weight night of the fight: 148
View media item 165383View media item 165360View media item 165361View media item 165362View media item 165363
2012 (Pacquiao IV):
-Now here's Marquez 2.0 with hardly any body fat and the delts of a Light Heavyweight.
-Unofficial weight night of the fight: 148
View media item 165367View media item 165368View media item 165369View media item 165370
I'd love to know his training "secrets" that Angel Heredia has been putting him through. He looked his age in 2009. Is this dude Benjamin Button or what?

 

[donmega]

Kinda late, but here's my quick thoughts on the fight:

• No need for a 5th fight. These dude's have proven everything already. I honestly think a 5th fight would be exciting as hell, but it's reached the point where there's really nothing more to prove. Each fight would go either way each and everytime with them. And everytime by the skin of someone's teeth. That's how great these guys are.
• Marquez has finally proven he's on par with Pac. After this fight, dude should get all the respect he had always deserved. You can call the KO punch lucky, but one can't argue he didn't put himself in the position for that punch with all the time he put in with his training. He put in his work, and reaped the benefits.
• Pac still had the power behind his punches, but it's pretty clear he's lost some of his legendary speed. Even back then, I was always more in awe of his speed rather than his power.
• These 2 are just made for each other. Straight and simple. You just cannot define one's career without the other.
• After seeing the fight, I could see why most people would want Pac to retire already. But, I think he still has one, and I say just one big fight within him. He's a born fighter and there's just no way he let's this be his swan song. Given that he still has one more fight left, I would really love to see him finally match up against Floyd. True Floyd may not want to fight him anymore, but he should go up to him and be the better man and ask for the fight himself. Discounted or not. That's the only match he should take. The grand finale. If it ain't available then I say he should just swallow his pride and just retire.

 

[Chester McFloppy]

Excuses, excuses....

 

[The_Isomotion31]

Wonder if these 2 will end up with a balboa/creed relationship. lol. (you can tell I'm not a big boxing fan).

I was at a firm Christmas party so was not able to catch this fight. Saw the highlights though. WOW. So what's next for either of these 2?

 

[west coast avenger]

from Money Mayweather:

"I'm not here to talk bad about Pacquiao. I feel bad for him, honestly. I really feel bad for him. There's a difference in the ways you can get knocked out. See, when a guy gets knocked out and he can get up, they sit him on his stool, they rub his back, he go home and ice himself, you know, he go to the hospital and get checked out and he's okay, that's one thing. But when you gotta wake a guy up with smelling salt and he got a concussion and he gotta go to the hospital over night, that's crucial. I mean, that's close to the death.

View media item 135944.........LOL @ anyone who thinks Marquez was on something.....he was losing the fight, had a broken nose and then he obliterated Pac.....Pac didnt ask for a drug test because he was more than likely roided up himself with that big ol head of his......l

 

[RustyShackleford]

Mayweather

And PacStans are a piece of work. Accusing JMM of being juicy, but completely ignore Manny's transformation over the last couple years.

 

[jking0821]

from Money Mayweather:

"I'm not here to talk bad about Pacquiao. I feel bad for him, honestly. I really feel bad for him. There's a difference in the ways you can get knocked out. See, when a guy gets knocked out and he can get up, they sit him on his stool, they rub his back, he go home and ice himself, you know, he go to the hospital and get checked out and he's okay, that's one thing. But when you gotta wake a guy up with smelling salt and he got a concussion and he gotta go to the hospital over night, that's crucial. I mean, that's close to the death.

View media item 135944.........LOL @ anyone who thinks Marquez was on something.....he was losing the fight, had a broken nose and then he obliterated Pac.....Pac didnt ask for a drug test because he was more than likely roided up himself with that big ol head of his......l

I can't see why everyone takes everything to the extreme. He was losing the fight by at most 1 point...by other accounts it was even. I don't know if either guy was on PED's (obviously) but it just seemed strange the power that JMM had the whole fight. But manny did walk directly into that Over-hand and it prob would have won the fight no matter what. But as your quote shows from mayweather.....it was a borderline scary knockout. JMM has never had scary power like that in his career thats all. No one is taking anything away from his victory just searching for some info. Which i really appreciate people posting the Ariza interview and the Training vid. Thats why we ask these questions.

 

[west coast avenger]

I can't see why everyone takes everything to the extreme. He was losing the fight by at most 1 point...by other accounts it was even. I don't know if either guy was on PED's (obviously) but it just seemed strange the power that JMM had the whole fight. But manny did walk directly into that Over-hand and it prob would have won the fight no matter what. But as your quote shows from mayweather.....it was a borderline scary knockout. JMM has never had scary power like that in his career thats all. No one is taking anything away from his victory just searching for some info. Which i really appreciate people posting the Ariza interview and the Training vid. Thats why we ask these questions.

Son Pac shyed away from the drug test as well....and Marquez is one of the best counter punchers that there is.....Roach wanted Pac to be aggressive this fight and to go in for the kill....leaving himself open to shots....the first knockdown came because Marquez was landing body shots and Pac assumed that next body shot was coming and left himself wide open for that overhand right....the KO was all Pac though....he walked right into it trying to go for the kill as he thought Marquez was struggling......Pac was winning the fight up until that point....if you saw the 24/7 episodes and saw how Marquez was training you would see why he put on so much muscle...he knew he had to KO Pac to win and he did just that.....

 

[donmega]

I can't see why everyone takes everything to the extreme. He was losing the fight by at most 1 point...by other accounts it was even. I don't know if either guy was on PED's (obviously) but it just seemed strange the power that JMM had the whole fight. But manny did walk directly into that Over-hand and it prob would have won the fight no matter what. But as your quote shows from mayweather.....it was a borderline scary knockout. JMM has never had scary power like that in his career thats all. No one is taking anything away from his victory just searching for some info. Which i really appreciate people posting the Ariza interview and the Training vid. Thats why we ask these questions.

Son Pac shyed away from the drug test as well....and Marquez is one of the best counter punchers that there is.....Roach wanted Pac to be aggressive this fight and to go in for the kill....leaving himself open to shots....the first knockdown came because Marquez was landing body shots and Pac assumed that next body shot was coming and left himself wide open for that overhand right....the KO was all Pac though....he walked right into it trying to go for the kill as he thought Marquez was struggling......Pac was winning the fight up until that point....if you saw the 24/7 episodes and saw how Marquez was training you would see why he put on so much muscle...he knew he had to KO Pac to win and he did just that.....

Exactly. He knew he would never get another rematch so he needed to win in a very convincing way. He was really looking for the kill.

 

[sundoobie]

If you're not suspicious of Marquez's new found training secrets and physique, here are some pics to look at.
2009 (Mayweather fight):
-Weighed in at 142
-Age 36
View media item 1653562012 (Pacquiao IV):
-Here he comes looking like a chiseled Roman statue
-Weighed in at 143
-Age 39
View media item 1653592009 (Mayweather fight):

I wouldn't doubt it if dude juiced up. Hell I wouldn't doubt it if Manny juiced up. I mean after all this is Professional Boxing and we all know how corrupt this sport is.

To tell you the truth after seeing that KO, I hope all boxers juice up in the future. That was some good action Saturday night

 

[jjs07]

If you're not suspicious of Marquez's new found training secrets and physique, here are some pics to look at.
2009 (Mayweather fight):
-Weighed in at 142
-Age 36
View media item 1653562012 (Pacquiao IV):
-Here he comes looking like a chiseled Roman statue
-Weighed in at 143
-Age 39
View media item 1653592009 (Mayweather fight):
-Notice the slight softness around his midsection. That is completely normal for a fighter at age 36.
-Unofficial weight night if the fight: 148
View media item 165383View media item 165360View media item 165361View media item 165362View media item 1653632012 (Pacquiao IV):
-Now here's Marquez 2.0 with hardly any body fat and the delts of a Light Heavyweight.
-Unofficial weight night if the fight: 148
View media item 165367View media item 165368View media item 165369View media item 165370I'd love to know his training "secrets" that Angel Heredia has been putting him through. He looked his age in 2009. Is this dude Benjamin Button or what?

I'm not a boxing expert by any means, but why is it out of the realm of possibility for someone to get their body more shredded in a span of 3 years? This didn't happen overnight.

 

[itshlittt]

great fight nonetheless

 

[candyman]

Anybody that trains and eats right can put on muscle no matter the age. Especially if you have never trained to put on muscle, Marquez was never one of those fighters that was in the weight room the way he was for this last fight. That is why they put so much emphasis on it this time around, and to everyone saying he had this guy or that guy train him well he had the same guy the last time they fought. And nothing was made of it why because their man won but now that their man lost that is all they are talking about. Any person no matter who would have been dropped with that hit, it was pac coming forward and the hit was right on the button. Again it wouldn't have mattered if it were some dude 15 lbs lighter throwing the hit or a guy 15 lbs heavier taking the hit. And to make matters worse pac fans putting up pictures of Marquez transformation while they ignore pacs transformation moving up weight classes in a short period without losing speed or power and his head has grown 10x bigger. I DON'T THINK PEOPLE HATE PAC I THINK THEY JUST HATE HIS FANS WHICH MAKE THEM HATE PAC. As most pac fans only watch pac fights and are not casual fans or don't even know much about fighting other than pac always wins (well at least to them).

 

[jking0821]

Anybody that trains and eats right can put on muscle no matter the age. Especially if you have never trained to put on muscle, Marquez was never one of those fighters that was in the weight room the way he was for this last fight. That is why they put so much emphasis on it this time around, and to everyone saying he had this guy or that guy train him well he had the same guy the last time they fought. And nothing was made of it why because their man won but now that their man lost that is all they are talking about. Any person no matter who would have been dropped with that hit, it was pac coming forward and the hit was right on the button. Again it wouldn't have mattered if it were some dude 15 lbs lighter throwing the hit or a guy 15 lbs heavier taking the hit. And to make matters worse pac fans putting up pictures of Marquez transformation while they ignore pacs transformation moving up weight classes in a short period without losing speed or power and his head has grown 10x bigger. I DON'T THINK PEOPLE HATE PAC I THINK THEY JUST HATE HIS FANS WHICH MAKE THEM HATE PAC. As most pac fans only watch pac fights and are not casual fans or don't even know much about fighting other than pac always wins (well at least to them).

I agree with everyone on what happened. Slipped the jab pac walked into an overhand right. Got caught flush lights out. Close fight up til then. Looked a lot of the same from the first 3. A lot of action. Manny got careless. Whatever all that aside:

There is a certain trade off one makes between speed and power. There is a fine line. You can't get extremely muscular....big muscles are slow. For a 39 year old to magically bulk up for one fight....all muscle....and show no ill effects to speed...and this hasn't happened ever in his career (the bulking)......just seems fishy that's all people are saying. And its not like a boxer ever says "I want to be fast but not strong" or "I want to be strong and not fast" they train to be as strong as they can and as fast as they can obviously.

FTR i am a PBF fan and i think everyone in boxing probably juices

 

[sthebest]

im late with this but whipped this up earlier

View media item 165554

 

[semf]

yikes . . .
http://cdn3.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1336819/699349861_medium_medium.gif

 

[shannonscrooks]

Anybody that trains and eats right can put on muscle no matter the age. Especially if you have never trained to put on muscle, Marquez was never one of those fighters that was in the weight room the way he was for this last fight. That is why they put so much emphasis on it this time around, and to everyone saying he had this guy or that guy train him well he had the same guy the last time they fought. And nothing was made of it why because their man won but now that their man lost that is all they are talking about. Any person no matter who would have been dropped with that hit, it was pac coming forward and the hit was right on the button. Again it wouldn't have mattered if it were some dude 15 lbs lighter throwing the hit or a guy 15 lbs heavier taking the hit. And to make matters worse pac fans putting up pictures of Marquez transformation while they ignore pacs transformation moving up weight classes in a short period without losing speed or power and his head has grown 10x bigger. I DON'T THINK PEOPLE HATE PAC I THINK THEY JUST HATE HIS FANS WHICH MAKE THEM HATE PAC. As most pac fans only watch pac fights and are not casual fans or don't even know much about fighting other than pac always wins (well at least to them).

 

[demps]

Article Link - http://www.boxingscene.com/?m=show&opt=printable&id=60319#ixzz2EgPi3nIJ
This is a legal waiver. By copying and using the material from this article, you agree to give full credit to BoxingScene.com or provide a link to the original article.

Former eight division world champion Manny Pacquiao (54-5-2, 38 KO) says he didn't feel a big difference in the punching power of Juan Manuel Marquez, who bulked up with muscle for this past Saturday's fourth fight at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Marquez knocked Pacquiao down in the third and then finished him with a single right hand with only a second remaining in the sixth round.

Pacquiao praises Marquez for landing a good shot in the third and says he never saw the right hand, in the sixth round, coming. He said "no" when asked if there was a significant difference in the punching power of his Mexican rival.

"I didn't take enough precaution against an opponent who is not easy as demonstrated in the 42 rounds we've fought since 2004. I did my best in the ring, but this is the sport of boxing. This is sport. I thought I was in control, and I hit him several times with powerful punches in the final two rounds, but the final punch [that ended the fight] was something I wasn't looking for and I never saw it coming. [In the third round] it was a good punch, but I was able to recover without problems and regain control of the fight. The second shot, I just didn't expect it and I didn't see it," Pacquiao said.

 

[candyman]

I agree with everyone on what happened. Slipped the jab pac walked into an overhand right. Got caught flush lights out. Close fight up til then. Looked a lot of the same from the first 3. A lot of action. Manny got careless. Whatever all that aside:
There is a certain trade off one makes between speed and power. There is a fine line. You can't get extremely muscular....big muscles are slow. For a 39 year old to magically bulk up for one fight....all muscle....and show no ill effects to speed...and this hasn't happened ever in his career (the bulking)......just seems fishy that's all people are saying. And its not like a boxer ever says "I want to be fast but not strong" or "I want to be strong and not fast" they train to be as strong as they can and as fast as they can obviously.
FTR i am a PBF fan and i think everyone in boxing probably juices

If you want to improve strength and bulk up while keeping speed you work on fast twitch muscle memory. If you train enough you can train your muscles however you want just like track athletes train their muscle memory and the starting gun, they have to get off as fast as possible as its probably the most important part of the race. I'm honestly a fan of JMM but respect PAC to the fullest for never ducking JMM even though he knows JMM has been the hardest toughest fighter he has ever fought. That takes balls man!

 

[candyman]

http://www.boxingscene.com/video-alex-ariza-discusses-pacquiaos-ko-defeat--60308

sorry i tried posting the video but i don't know how.

And this is coming from Pac's strength and conditioning coach

 

[itshlittt]

manny needs a new trainer and *** ariza

 

[marinadelrey]

feels good man. Roy jones his the nail on the head when stating that Marquez worked on that big overhand right that had been landing in the previous fights

 

[freshpairs]

Send manny to robert garcia. Trainer of the year

 

[mycoldyourdone]

You say that he would have gotten to Marquez by the 9th of 10th had it gone on, but who's to say say he wouldn't catch another overhand right just like both that put him on the mat? And if the cautious Pacquiao that fought Bradley would have shown up then he would have been outboxed like he did in the first three fights. The only chance Pac had with Marquez was to brawl with him. Marquez studied him perfectly, saw the hole in his defense and gave him to beautiful punches that both did their job. Let's just face the facts, Marquez is a better boxer than Manny and has shown it in every fight. Pac needs to retire because that's three losses in a row, He should focus on his family and political career.

"...and went the way it was going in the fifth..."

i wasnt saying pac would for sure win, and of course, whos to say marquez wouldn't hit it off in some other round. but the same can be said about pac. marquez had two huge shots. pacquaio was winning the rounds. pac had momemtum in his agressiveness. you cant really know what would happen next, but me feeling like pac couldve pulled it through is not unlikely. does this automatically mean i dont think marquez couldnt have won either? who knows cause those rounds dont exist.

i dont think he NEEDS to retire. maybe if cares about his image. but one bad night doesnt mean he's washed up. the loss looked horrible, but does it really mean he's lost a ton of skill? he just lost a ton on image.