Offical: Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez IV thread.

[jerryjones]

you don't consider hearns a great but you consider pryor a great? other than arguello who did pryor beat?
hearns won titles from 147 to 175 and beat guys like Cuevas, Duran, Benitez, and Hill

so you're sayin you dont consider pryor a great fighter?

 

[trav t]

Technically, Roy was undefeated at age 35, too. His only loss was a DQ to Montell Griffin for hitting him while he was already down. We all know how the 2nd fight turned out. Come on, dude. You're not even being a good student of boxing right now . Be reasonable.
Jim Lampley, "Roy Jones is the best fighter of his generation!"

man roy was 35 when he got knocked out by tarver and the other cat..look it up

I am not denying that, but he was also 35 and unbeaten coming into that fight. He was already on the decline, though, after coming back down two weight classes from heavyweight.

 

[bleach]

so you're sayin you dont consider pryor a great fighter?

not saying that at all. but hearns > pryor

 

[jerryjones]

I am not denying that, but he was also 35 and unbeaten coming into that fight. He was already on the decline, though, after coming back down two weight classes from heavyweight.

aite..if floyd get knocked out by two bums in the next 3 months i'll take my argument back

 

[ag 47]

Marquez is not a bum by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[marinadelrey]

feels good man. pac has one of the WORST fanbases in all of pro sports world wide. by far

 

[jerryjones]

Marquez is not a bum by any stretch of the imagination.

wasnt talkin about marquez we were discussing roy jones getting knocked out by tarver and the other guy

I always felt like marquez was better than manny.. i honeslty feel that marquez never lost a fight to manny

 

[trav t]

I am not denying that, but he was also 35 and unbeaten coming into that fight. He was already on the decline, though, after coming back down two weight classes from heavyweight.

aite..if floyd get knocked out by two bums in the next 3 months i'll take my argument back

All right. We'll see what happens when he fights Canelo. I expect him to win, as usual. Jones already had a lot of mileage at that point, though. And a higher KO percentage.

 

[jerryjones]

All right. We'll see what happens when he fights Canelo. I expect him to win, as usual. Jones already had a lot of mileage at that point, though. And a higher KO percentage.

dont get me wrong i like jones..he was the most dominant fighter of his era by far

 

[jordan23dotcom]

feels good man. pac has one of the WORST fanbases in all of pro sports world wide. by far

lol, ok

based on what? you and your friends at school?

 

[trav t]

All right. We'll see what happens when he fights Canelo. I expect him to win, as usual. Jones already had a lot of mileage at that point, though. And a higher KO percentage.

dont get me wrong i like jones..he was the most dominant fighter of his era by far

Then is the fact that he ducked a lot of good fights what is holding you back from considering him an all-time great? It can't be the fact that he got KO'd during his decline and fall from grace. That happens to all the greats. Ali against Larry Holmes, anyone? Anyway, let's just keep this about Pacquiao and Marquez.

 

[Rockabilly Zombie]

And yet another...
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[illmatiic]

you're saying all of this in hindsight, fact is each one of these dudes were on the top 10 p4p list when mayweather fought them
nobody was saying mosley was washed up until after floyd beat him. just before that he had demolished maragarito who everybody thought floyd was afraid of, and was ranked #3 p4p. also, floyd had been trying to get a fight with shane for a while, it was shane who was ducking him:


people try to make the mosley fight seem like a cherrypick now, but if floyd fought margarito at the time instead of mosley im sure people would be saying "why not fight the guy that just destroyed margarito"
at the time, mayweather mosley was a fight everybody wanted to see
easy to say hatton is overrated now, but at the time he was undefeated and many thought his pressure would be too much for mayweather
if floyd fought marquez now do you really think marquez would do any better? floyd was coming off a 18th month lay off and didnt lose a single round. made a hall of famer look like an amateur
floyd not fighting cotto earlier probably had much to do with who his promoter was, because if you notice the only guys floyd has apparently been ducking are all promoted by bob arum. once cotto left bob arum the fight was made quite easily

Floyd didn't need to wait till 2010 when Shane was 38/39; Floyd could definitely have fought him earlier. It didn't matter that Mosley just came off a big win against Margarito (who's style caters to Mosley) since Mosley was coming from a long lay-off.

With how Floyd hand-picks, we all know he wouldn't have fought Margarito; not that it was a sure thing Margarito would have won. Mayweather doesn't fight anyone that towers over him since his shoulder roll defence would be nullified. Margarito being 6 feet tall would have allowed him to punch over May's shoulder.

Everyone will argue that this match-up was viable. There is only reason why it was to fight fans, because both were undefeated. Anyone who knew Ricky's style knew it would have been an easy fight for Mayweather. I mean, a guy constantly moving forward and not moving his head would easily lose to someone with May's style.

Of course Marquez would have done better. Don't you remember how Marquez was for his very first welterweight fight? He was extremely slow and bloated. Marquez was forced to press Mayweather and we know Marquez's offence isn't spectacular; and of course his loss in punching speed would affect his already average offence.

At least we agreed with one point.I agreed with the first quarter of this statement. Like my point about Mosley, it should have happened earlier.

Floyd is a great fighter who perfected his style of fighting. However, his legacy won't ever reach the heights his skill did.

 

[jerryjones]

not saying that at all. but hearns > pryor

nah

 

[bleach]

Floyd didn't need to wait till 2010 when Shane was 38/39; Floyd could definitely have fought him earlier. It didn't matter that Mosley just came off a big win against Margarito (who's style caters to Mosley) since Mosley was coming from a long lay-off.
With how Floyd hand-picks, we all know he wouldn't have fought Margarito; not that it was a sure thing Margarito would have won. Mayweather doesn't fight anyone that towers over him since his shoulder roll defence would be nullified. Margarito being 6 feet tall would have allowed him to punch over May's shoulder.
Everyone will argue that this match-up was viable. There is only reason why it was to fight fans, because both were undefeated. Anyone who knew Ricky's style knew it would have been an easy fight for Mayweather. I mean, a guy constantly moving forward and not moving his head would easily lose to someone with May's style.
Of course Marquez would have done better. Don't you remember how Marquez was for his very first welterweight fight? He was extremely slow and bloated. Marquez was forced to press Mayweather and we know Marquez's offence isn't spectacular; and of course his loss in punching speed would affect his already average offence.
At least we agreed with one point.I agreed with the first quarter of this statement. Like my point about Mosley, it should have happened earlier.
Floyd is a great fighter who perfected his style of fighting. However, his legacy won't ever reach the heights his skill did.

did you watch the videos? floyd tried to fight shane in '98 and '05, it was shane who wasn't interested in fighting floyd until floyd became a huge ppv attraction

and floyd has fought and dominated many taller fighters. oscar, corrales, pep, n'dou, hernandez

and it's funny that you say shane was at a disadvantage when he fought floyd because of his long lay off

but you ignore the fact that floyd was coming off a long layoff when he dominated marquez

sorry man, don't see how a 3 year older marquez is going to do better against an active mayweather. marquez would still be forced to press mayweather if they fought again, i still see him being completely ineffective

nah

right, so despite winning world titles in 4 more divisions than pryor

and beating 4 more hall of famers than pryor

pryor is better

ok man

 

[danger style]

I love Pryor, but I don't see him being ranked over Hearns. An argument could be made because Hearn's KO losses hurt his standings alot but at the end of the day Pryor didnt face enough top level competition.

 

[mycoldyourdone]

rewatched the fight.

marquez fought smarter. i think pacquiao expected marquez to be as aggressive as he was since they were both trying to 'knock' each other out and not make a another decision dud. pac went too far and disregarded the chin. i saw marquez studying all night trying to counter pac's over aggressiveness. pac was in a good position in the fifth when he broke marquez's nose, but that last shot happened. if that didnt happen, and went the way it was going in the fifth, i think pac would have gotten to him by the 9th or 10th. im not saying marquez didnt have a chance, cause after all he was the smarter fighter early on. but i think it wouldve been an exciting brawl either way if that shot didnt happen. tldr; fight had potential to be greater than it already was if that shot didnt happen

 

[lver of jordan]

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[mycoldyourdone]

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[ripc]

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[trav t]

rewatched the fight.

marquez fought smarter. i think pacquiao expected marquez to be as aggressive as he was since they were both trying to 'knock' each other out and not make a another decision dud. pac went too far and disregarded the chin. i saw marquez studying all night trying to counter pac's over aggressiveness. pac was in a good position in the fifth when he broke marquez's nose, but that last shot happened. if that didnt happen, and went the way it was going in the fifth, i think pac would have gotten to him by the 9th or 10th. im not saying marquez didnt have a chance, cause after all he was the smarter fighter early on. but i think it wouldve been an exciting brawl either way if that shot didnt happen. tldr; fight had potential to be greater than it already was if that shot didnt happen

Truth. It was so shocking because Marquez was getting shredded with power shots in the 5th and 6th rounds. His face wasn't gonna withstand that kind of abuse. But Manny got too reckless trying to finish Marquez off. He didn't respect his power because he had eaten all of his shots in the past. If the cautious Manny Pacquiao who outboxed Bradley had shown up that night, he would have won.

Who knows where he will go from here. He got caught with a shot. It happens to the best of them. Lennox Lewis came back from a devastating KO loss to Rahman and returned the favor. Roy Jones, Jr. got KO'd by Tarver and came back to fight Glen Johnson only to have the same thing happen again. Who knows. I think Manny still has it, though. He just needs to fight smart.

 

[KMante]

 

[the1stwright]

I haven't posted on NT since the website change because my original screename can't be recovered CAFinest23 but to see people trying to discredit Roy Jones Jr. is crazy. How can he not be one of the best to ever do it? You guys know he's the only man living today that has captured every title from middleweight to heavyweight. Only Floyd Patterson has done it in the last century and 12 years! Lol people crack me up.

 

[niketalker23]

rewatched the fight.

marquez fought smarter. i think pacquiao expected marquez to be as aggressive as he was since they were both trying to 'knock' each other out and not make a another decision dud. pac went too far and disregarded the chin. i saw marquez studying all night trying to counter pac's over aggressiveness. pac was in a good position in the fifth when he broke marquez's nose, but that last shot happened. if that didnt happen, and went the way it was going in the fifth, i think pac would have gotten to him by the 9th or 10th. im not saying marquez didnt have a chance, cause after all he was the smarter fighter early on. but i think it wouldve been an exciting brawl either way if that shot didnt happen. tldr; fight had potential to be greater than it already was if that shot didnt happen

Truth. It was so shocking because Marquez was getting shredded with power shots in the 5th and 6th rounds. His face wasn't gonna withstand that kind of abuse. But Manny got too reckless trying to finish Marquez off. He didn't respect his power because he had eaten all of his shots in the past. If the cautious Manny Pacquiao who outboxed Bradley had shown up that night, he would have won.

Who knows where he will go from here. He got caught with a shot. It happens to the best of them. Lennox Lewis came back from a devastating KO loss to Rahman and returned the favor. Roy Jones, Jr. got KO'd by Tarver and came back to fight Glen Johnson only to have the same thing happen again. Who knows. I think Manny still has it, though. He just needs to fight smart.

You say that he would have gotten to Marquez by the 9th of 10th had it gone on, but who's to say say he wouldn't catch another overhand right just like both that put him on the mat? And if the cautious Pacquiao that fought Bradley would have shown up then he would have been outboxed like he did in the first three fights. The only chance Pac had with Marquez was to brawl with him. Marquez studied him perfectly, saw the hole in his defense and gave him to beautiful punches that both did their job. Let's just face the facts, Marquez is a better boxer than Manny and has shown it in every fight. Pac needs to retire because that's three losses in a row, He should focus on his family and political career.

 

[trav t]

Pacquiao outworked Marquez in their 2nd and 3rd fights. Compubox stats don't lie.