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That's why I posted that specific pic.Originally Posted by EnEyeKayEe
my comment was referring to a certain NTer with a certain sig btw
I'll put it in a spoiler...
ahh ok im just making sure
Offical 2009-10 NBA Season Thread
- Thread in 'Sports & Training' Thread starter Started by mateen cleaves,
- Start date
I'll put it in a spoiler...
ahh ok im just making sure
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WOW nike
i was eating
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Not to be bias, but i honestly don't see how the cavs are a lock to come out the east???? Orlando is just as talented and just as deep they are. In fact im sure everyone in this forum would agree that in order for the magic or cavs to get to the finals they will have to go thru each other. I dont see atlanta nor boston as any kind threat for there not to be a rematch of last years ECF.
[table][tr][td]2009-10 Power Rankings: Week 19[/td][/tr][tr][td] [/td][td]RK (LW)[/td][td]TEAM[/td][td]REC[/td][td]COMMENT[/td][/tr][tr][td][/td][td]Hawks[/td][td]40-22[/td][td]Legitimate question for Hawks folks: Given all the trouble your lads have had with Orlando this season, wouldn't you not-so-secretly prefer finishing with the No. 4 seed? Even if that means dealing with LeBron in Round 2?[/td][/tr][tr][td][/td][td]Bobcats[/td][td]30-31[/td][td]Funny old game, huh? Charlotte just took its record against Dallas to 0-12 lifetime ... and 7-2 against the Lakers since February 2006. Cleveland is the only other team with a winning record against L.A. in that span.[/td][/tr][tr][td]
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eneye...i didnt even realize what your sn meant till now
doo be doowned
doo be doowned
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Wouldn't even have to be monumental. Spurs would have to play above their abilities to play over .500 ball with their remaining schedule/no Parker. I don't see them doing too well after this week. (bad start already with loss to Cle)
Grizz would have to play much better than they've been lately, though.
I'm sure CP will thoroughly enjoy this fine article:
[h1]
[h1]
[/h1][h1]Greatest shooters ever[/h1][h3]PER Diem: March 9, 2010[/h3]
By John Hollinger
ESPN.com
Nathaniel S. Butler/Getty ImagesSteve Nash is known more for his passing prowess, but his shooting ability might be his best skill.
You'll often hear casual basketball fans lament the lack of shooting in today's game, especially from the free throw line. But actually, we have the opposite problem: The current NBA is littered with great shooters. In fact, several of the best shooters of all time are currently on NBA rosters, and most of them are more or less in their prime.
Without leaving the top half of the Western Conference standings, for instance, I can point out names like Steve Nash, Dirk Nowitzki, Peja Stojakovic, Kevin Martin and Chauncey Billups, all of whom have put together multiple seasons that rank among the best shooting performances in history. That's to say nothing of the other great shooters in the league -- Ray Allen, Jason Kapono, free throw-record holder Jose Calderon, Ben Gordon, Kyle Korver … the list goes on and on.
But which one is the best of the best? Aye, there's the rub. We've never had a clear metric for ranking the game's best shooters … well, at least until today's ill-advised endeavor. That's right -- we're going to try ranking the best shooters in the game's history.
First, a caveat: By "history," we're limiting ourselves to the 3-point era. There were plenty of great shooters who played prior to that point, but we have no way to verify their cases statistically. In particular, it appears Calvin Murphy and Rick Barry -- two players from the 1970s who were renowned for their shooting range and rank among the top six free throw shooters of all time -- are slighted by today's methodology. Bill Sharman, Mike Newlin and Fred Brown also get my apologies.
OK, now for the method. My first step is to require players pass through a couple of fairly low "gates:" shooting 85 percent from the line with at least a 45 percent mark on 3s, or shooting 87.5 percent from the line with at least 42.5 percent made on 3s, or shooting 90 percent from the stripe with at least 40 percent made on 3s.
The point at this stage isn't to determine the best shooter of all time but to eliminate all the players we know darn well aren't the best shooter of all time. This does an efficient job, narrowing our list to 44 players.
From there, I set about creating a formula to rank the best shooters. I thought I'd have to dream up something very complex to adjust for all the variables involved, but it turned out a simple formula worked far better than any of my more exotic concoctions. I simply added a player's 2-point, 3-point and free throw percentages. We'll call this "Combined Shooting Rating," or CSR for short.
CSR works for a few reasons. First, the free throw is a pretty fair arbiter of shooting ability. It's the only true apples-to-apples measurement we have, because it's always 15 feet from the hoop and unguarded, regardless of what system the team runs or how the player is used. It's only one shot among many that need to be in a player's arsenal, but it's an important one.
Second, the yin and yang of 2-point and 3-point ability balance each other out. Some players are more effective midrange shooters than long-range marksmen, while others are more comfortable bombing away. And using this method makes the system more fair to players from the 1980s and early '90s, when teams didn't utilize the 3 as often or as effectively.
The one thing I left out was frequency. Obviously, players who pick their spots get higher-percentage looks than those who are the focal point of the offense on play after play. On the other hand, it's extremely difficult for players in the former group to shoot well enough from the line to crack the elite on this list, simply because of the lack of in-game repetition. Several snipers with great numbers from the floor (Brent Barry, for instance, or Hubert Davis) couldn't get into the top 10 because of free throw percentage, and even the second-ranked player on our list (one of the all-time snipers) has the worst free throw percentage of anybody in the top 10.
Also, I did set two minimum standards: 10,000 career minutes and 250 made 3-pointers. I didn't want anybody getting onto the list with a lengthy career sparsely populated with 3-point attempts; that seemed counter to the point of the exercise. While arbitrary, 250 nicely separated the truly deadly long-range shooters from the guys who merely hit midrange J's and made their free throws.
So now that our rather simple CSR method is clear, let's get to our list of the top 10 shooters, which also apparently doubles as a great predictor of post-career broadcasting, coaching and front-office opportunities. According to CSR, they are:
[h4]Top All-Time Shooters By CSR[/h4][table][tr][th=""]Player[/th][th=""]2-Pt%[/th][th=""]3-Pt%[/th][th=""]FT%[/th][th=""]CSR[/th][/tr][tr][td]Steve Nash[/td][td].515[/td][td].431[/td][td].903[/td][td]1.849[/td][/tr][tr][td]Steve Kerr[/td][td].494[/td][td].454[/td][td].864[/td][td]1.812[/td][/tr][tr][td]Reggie Miller[/td][td].525[/td][td].395[/td][td].888[/td][td]1.807[/td][/tr][tr][td]Mark Price[/td][td].501[/td][td].402[/td][td].904[/td][td]1.807[/td][/tr][tr][td]Jeff Hornacek[/td][td].515[/td][td].403[/td][td].877[/td][td]1.795[/td][/tr][tr][td]Chris Mullin[/td][td].533[/td][td].384[/td][td].865[/td][td]1.783[/td][/tr][tr][td]Peja Stojakovic[/td][td].485[/td][td].400[/td][td].895[/td][td]1.779[/td][/tr][tr][td]Larry Bird[/td][td].509[/td][td].376[/td][td].886[/td][td]1.770[/td][/tr][tr][td]Ray Allen[/td][td].482[/td][td].396[/td][td].893[/td][td]1.770[/td][/tr][tr][td]Dana Barros[/td][td].488[/td][td].411[/td][td].858[/td][td]1.757[/td][/tr][/table]Min. 10,000 career minutes
That's right: Steve Nash. By a mile.
I've always written that his shooting is his most underappreciated skill, but even so, this blows me away.
It makes sense, though -- run through the numbers, and Nash crushes every possible competitor. And it becomes even more impressive when one considers nearly all his shots from the field have come off the dribble. Nash and the fourth-ranked player on this list, Mark Price, are the only two players in history to shoot better than 50 percent on 2s, 40 percent on 3s and 90 percent from the line for their careers. And as it happens, Nash's general manager in Phoenix, Steve Kerr, is second on the list.
One strong point of this list is that it acknowledges a few of the game's great midrange shooters. Neither Chris Mullin nor Jeff Hornacek shot the 3 with great frequency, for instance, but both were deadly accurate when they did, and they were exceptional from 2-point range.
Fans of "Larry Legend" undoubtedly will be disappointed to see him ninth on this list and to see one player of his own size -- Stojakovic -- rank just ahead of him. But Bird's greatest asset was his ability to make high-difficulty shots, which would need to be part of a different list entirely -- a list that would include different players. (Kobe Bryant, for one obvious example, is nowhere close on the above list but would have to rank high on any list of tough-shot makers.)
If you're wondering about Nowitzki, he is 13th, and easily the best among players 6-foot-10 or taller. Players 11 to 20 on this list are Barry, Hersey Hawkins, Nowitzki, Davis, Korver, Mo Williams, Danny Ainge, Allan Houston, Scott Skiles and Glen Rice.
Before I exit, some players who didn't make my list warrant mentioning.
The first is Drazen Petrovic, who just missed my minutes cut-off because of his untimely death in 1993. Petro's rating of 1.799 would have put him fifth on the list, a fact that becomes even more impressive when one considers he was only 28 when he died -- most players improve their numbers on the above criteria well into their 30s.
The second is Calderon, who needs only 779 more minutes to crack the list; his 1.805 career mark would place him fifth. Calderon also has only 238 made 3s on his career and needs to make 12 more of those. You might think his free throw percentage carries him into the top 10, but actually it's his amazing 2-point field goal percentage that does it. Calderon has shot 53.4 percent for his career on 2-point shots, the best mark of any of the 44 players in this study.
Finally, two young players on the Golden State Warriors have established a great chance of finishing their careers near the top of this list. Rookie Stephen Curry is at 1.770 thus far in his brief career, and should that number hold up, he'll finish his career in the top 10. Since players' shooting often improves dramatically in their second through fifth seasons, he could finish as one of the top-ranked players of all time.
Then again, he also might finish second among current Warriors. Curry's teammate, Anthony Morrow, has played two NBA seasons as a part-time starter, and posted career marks of 48.8 percent on 2s, 45.9 percent on 3s and 87.6 percent from the line. That's good for a CSR of 1.822, which is better than every other player in history except Nash.
Obviously we're dealing with smaller sample sizes with those two, and it's possible they'll regress in future seasons. But when we discuss the great all-time shooters, those two are worth tracking in future seasons to see if they warrant a spot in the conversation.
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^^ CP rolled over his grave
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I don't think CP has a problem admitting that Steve is one of the best shooters ever to play.
ESPECIALLY for his position.
ESPECIALLY for his position.
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You know bigmike can't admit to anything the Grizz could do.
I still think our chances are slim, but our schedule is a little easier than the Spurs going to the end of March to April.
They have NYK, Minny, LAC, @Mia, @Orl, @Atl, @OKC, LAL twice, Cle, @Bos, Hou. Orl, @Pho, Mem, @Den and @Dal.
Memphis got Chicago, Denver, Knicks, Boston, GSW twice, @Sac, @Mil, Dal twice, NOH, @Orl, Hou twice, @Sas, Philly, @Den, @OKC.
Only 4 1/2 games back, so it could happen. It doesn't really take a major collapse. Just for the Grizz to win 2 or 3 straight and the Spurs to lose 2 or 3 straight. With their schedule and how they lost to Cleveland without Lebron, makes it seem like they could collapse. I know Portland is gone though. They have an easy schedule and they aren't losing.
do be doo
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Steve Nash is a really good shooter. No doubt.
Calling him the greatest of all time is, well, dumb. But, he did mention the degree of difficulty and all that, shooters such as Allen and Reggie comin off screens with dudes chasin em catchin and shooting all net is better then anything Nash has ever done.
Although, Nash does hit some tough @#$ shots every once in a while. I think Holinger should have posted attempts in his rankings as well. But that's probably a TON of research to put together.
Mike wasn't just whistlin dixie, that Durant thread is crack.
Glad I stayed outta that one.
Why Duncan don't get the ball the last 4 minutes of the game last night? Manu and Mason were jackin shots up left and right, all Duncan was doing was setting moving screens the whole time. Why?
Calling him the greatest of all time is, well, dumb. But, he did mention the degree of difficulty and all that, shooters such as Allen and Reggie comin off screens with dudes chasin em catchin and shooting all net is better then anything Nash has ever done.
Although, Nash does hit some tough @#$ shots every once in a while. I think Holinger should have posted attempts in his rankings as well. But that's probably a TON of research to put together.
Mike wasn't just whistlin dixie, that Durant thread is crack.
Why Duncan don't get the ball the last 4 minutes of the game last night? Manu and Mason were jackin shots up left and right, all Duncan was doing was setting moving screens the whole time. Why?
do be doo
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CP1708 wrote:
Why Duncan don't get the ball the last 4 minutes of the game last night? Manu and Mason were jackin shots up left and right, all Duncan was doing was setting moving screens the whole time. Why?
I really don't know why Duncan didn't wanted the ball...
Manu gets a pass..
but MASON...0-8 from the 3 point line...
Mason wanted more playing and got his chance since parker is out....and blows it....
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I don't it is ludicrious at all to say Nash is the greatest shooter of all time. His jump shot is perfect and the percentages don't lie.
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Because he should be taking over the league by storm like Lebron is.Originally Posted by CP1708
Man, just seen the Pip on D12 thread. Is it me, or do a LOT of people hate on poor Dwight?
I mean, what's the need to constantly speak out on this kid and beat on him a little? People not buyin his nice guy act or somethin?
Yeah you can give him the "he doesn't get that many plays ran for him" argument, but there's no reason he shouldn't be averaging 25, 15 and 4. He's been in the league 6 years, so he should get some fire in him and play ball like he suppose to. Shaq averaged around 28, 12 and 3 in his 4 years in Orlando around the same age as Dwight. Sure Dwight isn't as potent as Shaq offensively, but he should be there by now. I honestly don't know how often he works on his post game.
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Like I said in the other thread... Hearing dudes continually spout the "He cannot carry a team to a championship without another star" crap makes my stomach hurt.
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The problem with the Pippen / Dwight thread is Pippen wasn't "hating" on him. Everything he said was the truth. Just because he wasn't praising him, doesn't mean he's "hating." Dwight has faults in his game, & Pippen commented on it... Something negative doesn't always = hate. The truth is the truth.
& No, Im not a hater...
& No, Im not a hater...
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I agree it is ******ed...But one can't deny that it is offensive improvement over the years has at the least been underwhelming.
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(Ridnour falls down and loses the ball out of bounds.)
Tommy Heinsohn:
"Ridnour had to really turn on the jets to get around the corner against Nate. The problem was he couldn't stop. Kind of like a Toyota."
Tommy Heinsohn:
"Ridnour had to really turn on the jets to get around the corner against Nate. The problem was he couldn't stop. Kind of like a Toyota."
Clippers doing something right:
http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ
http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ
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Originally Posted by CP1708
Man, just seen the Pip on D12 thread. Is it me, or do a LOT of people hate on poor Dwight?
I mean, what's the need to constantly speak out on this kid and beat on him a little? People not buyin his nice guy act or somethin?
i don't like wasted potential. that's why i stopped buying eminem cd's 5 years ago. I have nothing against him as a person. i mean i know we never really know these guys through the television, but he seems like a very nice guy from what i've seen.
with that said *larry david*...... I don't want a nice guy being the "leader" of my squad. i was a straight up prick on the court just like kobe and MJ.
It's a bigger problem than that though. the media force feeds us who is a star and who isn't. we see lebron get more attention than he probably should, maybe d wade too. meanwhile plaers like duncan, deron williams, melo and durant are kind of left to the side. not getting exposure. they throw dwight into the category of lebron and wade and force feed us that he is the greatest center in the league. But they know, and we know, and you kniw, and he knows that it is by DEFAULT.
i want the insults and criticisms to hype him up. a lot of the knicks future may depend on the magic beating the cavs up in the playoffs. so when i talk bad about him, it's just that i feel like he can be SO much better
mjshoefanatic
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Originally Posted by LazyJ10
Clippers doing something right:
http://twitter.com/STEIN_LINE_HQ
