NCAA Will Allow Trans Athletes: Lia Thomas Becomes 1st NCAA Transgender Champion

[kdawg]

I'm not laughing

Besides being generally disgusting this will not only affect transgender kids

Imagine a black girl beating white girls in a sport, and then the white parents want the black girl to go through this ****

Yeah, or “oh we didn’t have time to check everyone so those girls can’t compete.” Guess what color most of those girls will be?

 

[heelsandeers]

It's the stuff like this that makes me fall on the side of "who cares" when it comes to the topic. Promise the 5 women a year who lose out will be ok

In a sane society, in which reactionary conservatives from ***-backwards states didn't have a vice grip on legislative power, it would be a different discussion

 

[osh kosh bosh]

Yeah but I think you use this fact to routinely oversell how much power a small group of people have. And tacitly ignore how much the right exercises their power against transgender people

It is not just Fox News stories, laws are being passed. There is no flip side to Democrats doing similar things. There is no multimillion-dollar liberal funded propaganda campaign either

JK Rowling and Dave Chappelle are still both self-indulgent rich *** holes whose constant whining has not cost them much

Having influence in one thing. Having power and using is another.

I think this both sides framing got some serious holes in it

Im not trying to make a both sides argument,
both sides I think implies that im putting equal moral weight to what both sides are doing.

I don't, like I said I think Republicans, Chris Rufo et al are being sociopathic about this issue.
even if I may think that some progressives are wrong on this issue I don't think most of them
are purposefully being malignant.

im just observing a dynamic that imo benefits republicans, and things that benefit republicans tend to be bad.

Nearly everything you list here can be said about people hostile to transgender people. They are large swaths of the country where this stuff is not taught, it is banned, and schools are openly hostile to transgender people. It is not some unique phenomenon among progressive elites that counterbalances conservatives' legal actions.

im not making the argument it's counter balancing or the power is equal.
im saying the power that they do have is real, and it creates openings for bad actors.

it's basically a similar to the point you made about sports.
when people start reaching and make facially absurd arguments about women vs trans women in sports
it creates space for a bad actor to look more "reasonable" in comparison.

like I said measuring political and cultural power is hard, irrespective on how you weight it out
I think it's clear proponents of gender ideology do have power.

it may be less or equal or different, but my point is the power is real
and imo use of that power to suppress ideas I think empowers malign actors.

In places it is the number of people identifying with another gender than the one they were assigned at birth is growing, the stuff taught in most schools are not on the cutting edge of what is discussed in ultra-progressive Twitter circles. There might be examples, but outliers don't are not representative of the median.


I mean these are your examples of power? People are not imagining things, the world is changing. And I think some of the changes in language convention have been a net positive.

the more I think about it im trending towards it's been a net negative.
I think some really pernicious, scientifically dubious and mediocre to terrible ideas
have some how been absorbed into the progressive movement that I think in the long run we'll look back.

and recognize it was a mistake. but minds can differ

I would never share this opinion without the cloak of sneaker forum anonymity
or unless I was billionaire children's book author or the worlds most famous comedian.

because if you are in progressive space. dissent on these matters is just not acceptable.

The most powerful and high-profile political organization, The Democratic Party, does not push this stuff on people. If anything, they are just reacting to changes in their political coalition.

I disagree, plenty of examples of dem politicians using the
"people who have abortions" "birthing people" "chest feeding" "sex assigned at birth conventions"

and Jen Psaki said as a spokesperson for Biden about reassignment surgery and puberty blockers
"Every major medical association agrees that gender-affirming healthcare is a best practice and, potentially, lifesaving"


i assume that represents the position of the leader of the democratic party
A claim that imo is way way way too strong, and imo micharterizes the state of the evidence.

especially given that other western european countries are reversing course on the gender affirming model.

Bad actors will act in bad faith. That is what they do

The argument that millions of people need to coordinate their behavior, or police a small group of people say, and in turn to lead to bad actors being starved for an audience is wild to me. I mean this situation is an example of that. Lia Thomas followed the rules, the NCAA has policies to try to protect competitive fairness. Look at how none of that mattered to bad actors.

Obama said that he made the DOJ enforce civil rights laws for transgender people, including letting trans kids use the bathroom of their choice because it was the Christian thing to do. People need to show grace to people even when they can't fully agree with how they choose to live their life.

And on Fox News, they were talking about him making it easier for young girls to be sexually assaulted

And a lot of people cheered along as North Carolina used their city ordinance as a reason to strip a black city of its power to intact civil rights laws.

The right is labeling liberal and teacher pedophiles and groomers

If someone is telling me that the progressive left has the power to stop such things, I would 100% be behind policing people's speech (which at the end of the day is the request being made) in the hope to guarantee political success and lead to material benefits being delivered to transgender people. But nothing I see makes me believe that would be the outcome

Sounds like people just want me to sign up for another culture war.

I think you are probably right for a whole variety of factors the situation will not improve.
but that wasn't really the point I was making, I didn't offer any prescriptions.

I was just observing a dynamic that I think is bad
but it's quite probable that there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

But as always, I think America is ****ed because the undemocratic nature of American institutions is really the thing giving bad actors an opening, and making trans rights advocates (and people advocating for helping marginalized groups) more reactionary (I noticed it in myself as well) than they realize. Democracy is really the secret sauce to a functioning progressive country, and America is running out of stock of the little it has real quick.

100% agree.

the situation is bleak, when broad majorities of the public can't reliably turn their will into government action
i don't blame anyone for being reactionary.

im know im a full blow reactionary on the housing crisis in Canada.
being trapped in a country with a government totally unresponsive to the problem, will do that to you.

 

[RustyShackleford]

Im not trying to make a both sides argument,
both sides I think implies that im putting equal moral weight to what both sides are doing.

I don't, like I said I think Republicans, Chris Rufo et al are being sociopathic about this issue.
even if I may think that some progressives are wrong on this issue I don't think most of them
are purposefully being malignant.

im just observing a dynamic that imo benefits republicans, and things that benefit republicans tend to be bad.

Fair enough

im not making the argument it's counter balancing or the power is equal.
im saying the power that they do have is real, and it creates openings for bad actors.

it's basically a similar to the point you made about sports.
when people start reaching and make facially absurd arguments about women vs trans women in sports
it creates space for a bad actor to look more "reasonable" in comparison.

like I said measuring political and cultural power is hard, irrespective on how you weight it out
I think it's clear proponents of gender ideology do have power.

it may be less or equal or different, but my point is the power is real
and imo use of that power to suppress ideas I think empowers malign actors.

I think they have influence. Sure. A lot more than they had in recent decades, yes, comparatively much more. The 90s and early 2000s were much more conservative than people remember

I don't want to make this an argument about semantics but having power implies the have the ability to be a success in changing things.

Their successes have been mostly marginal gains. I feel the other side as been much more successful generally

And think at the end of the day no matter how difficult it might be to measure cultural influence vs political power, we can see the outcomes.

To me, doesn't seem like the progressive left is winning. At best they have increased the speed at which society has to reckon with certain things. And there are consequences to that of course. That some people can't handle the speed.

I will agree that bad arguments empower malign actors. Even though I feel some ideas need to be suppressed (the failures of the moderate right to do so routinely has had major negative consequences for the country as a whole), and some **** is settled, I rather ideas be challenged than suppressed. But I feel people are overselling how much changes on the fringes of the process left will change things.

the more I think about it im trending towards it's been a net negative.
I think some really pernicious, scientifically dubious and mediocre to terrible ideas
have some how been absorbed into the progressive movement that I think in the long run we'll look back.

and recognize it was a mistake. but minds can differ

I would never share this opinion without the cloak of sneaker forum anonymity
or unless I was billionaire children's book author or the worlds most famous comedian.

because if you are in progressive space. dissent on these matters is just not acceptable.

I was referring to the open disrespect and disparaging remarks that have been purging from a lot of spaces in the past few years.

I think it is a net positive that transgender people are not mocked by being called "t-word" (rhythms with nanny) mocking trans women for having penises and other wild ****

I think there is this weird thing people do (not you) but act like the current state of affairs when it comes to the language used toward certain groups was always in place.

Society is still generally hostile to transgender individuals, it only recently did a good chunk of the country stopped being openly disrespectful

That is the positive I am referring to. We are not at the starting point of when it comes to showing respect to some groups, we have traveled a distance.

I disagree, plenty of examples of dem politicians using the
"people who have abortions" "birthing people" "chest feeding" "sex assigned at birth conventions"

and Jen Psaki said as a spokesperson for Biden about reassignment surgery and puberty blockers
"Every major medical association agrees that gender-affirming healthcare is a best practice and, potentially, lifesaving"


i assume that represents the position of the leader of the democratic party
A claim that imo is way way way too strong, and imo micharterizes the state of the evidence.

especially given that other western european countries are reversing course on the gender affirming model.

Those are reactions to changes in parts of their political coalition

The Democratic Party is not telling any of its voters, or political allies "confirm to this view or there will be a backlash from us"

Like Republicans do, like some other people do. But the Dems are mainly a reactive institution. They have to be.

The presence of them adopting certain language does prove they are pushing it on anyone.

That is the conservative framing of things, but that is not actually what the party is doing. Own members of the party, including leadership, don't do that.

I think you are probably right for a whole variety of factors the situation will not improve.
but that wasn't really the point I was making, I didn't offer any prescriptions.

I was just observing a dynamic that I think is bad
but it's quite probable that there is nothing anyone can do about it.

Fair enough

I just think people (not you) discuss these issues like there is some easy answer out there that all will be well if a few people wake up.

It is a far more complex problem and I wish people would just be more forthcoming with what they are actually saying

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Mini thread

 

[WASHED KING]

When I was coming up to and I’m pretty sure it’s still the same way now we had to get a physical to even play sports.

For that physical you got checked for a hernia so technically someone already saw your genitalia just for you to play.

Florida wilding.

 

[IATT]

When I was coming up to and I’m pretty sure it’s still the same way now we had to get a physical to even play sports.

For that physical you got checked for a hernia so technically someone already saw your genitalia just for you to play.

Florida wilding.

really.. what state was this?

i did swimming, track and football in high school in Florida and don’t remember doing shh.. only time I had to do anything was I got concussed in a football game.. other than that it was just seeing trainers if something was sore and that was just to get shh checked and then either get massaged or stretched or soemthing then it was either getting taped or ice bags or whatever else

 

[jape]

When I was coming up to and I’m pretty sure it’s still the same way now we had to get a physical to even play sports.

For that physical you got checked for a hernia so technically someone already saw your genitalia just for you to play.

Florida wilding.

yeah i had to get one too

 

[VARNELL HILL]

really.. what state was this?

i did swimming, track and football in high school in Florida and don’t remember doing shh.. only time I had to do anything was I got concussed in a football game.. other than that it was just seeing trainers if something was sore and that was just to get shh checked and then either get massaged or stretched or soemthing then it was either getting taped or ice bags or whatever else

You played HS football and you didn't have to get a physical?

You sure you weren't playing intramurals?

 

[IATT]

You played HS football and you didn't have to get a physical?

You sure you weren't playing intramurals?

No physical for any of em

Only time I did anything specific was just starting out.. but I think all foreign kids had to do it when starting out

And they give state championships for intramurals?

 

[IATT]

Mini thread

just saw Ohio passed a similar bill..

but given how crazy some people take this shh, it seems pretty obvious how this is going get abused

 

[sooperhooper]

 

[RustyShackleford]

I rock with Boosie generally but I'm not taking anything he says about this subject seriously.

 

[sooperhooper]

I normally don't take him seriously but he's on point with this.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

@ "He should be BANNED."

Boosie twisted.

The Transgender NBA
The Transgender SOCCER

 

[sooperhooper]

@ "He should be BANNED."

Boosie twisted.

The Transgender NBA
The Transgender SOCCER

I was just waiting for him to say "The transgender swimming" I would've lost it.

 

[paulwest1985]

I rock with Boosie generally but I'm not taking anything he says about this subject seriously.

You may not, but I think his opinion on this topic is closer to what most rational people feel. Because there is no possible way you can justify this dynamic of "trans women" playing in women's sports. There is a clear and present disadvantage at play.

 

[DCAllAfrican]

Would you like to apologize?
No.

 

[osh kosh bosh]

The Battle Over Gender Therapy (Published 2022)

More teenagers than ever are seeking transitions, but the medical community that treats them is deeply divided about why — and what to do to help them.

www.nytimes.com

this is I think a fair article on a complex subject.
I think there are many progressive minded people who assumed that the science on transition was mostly settled.

and deferred to the elite opinion on this matter.
but if you look into it at all it's very clear that it isn't.

and some of the interventions being pushed do not have a strong base of evidence or data supporting it

i know I had that experience.

 

[sooperhooper]

You may not, but I think his opinion on this topic is closer to what most rational people feel. Because there is no possible way you can justify this dynamic of "trans women" playing in women's sports. There is a clear and present disadvantage at play.

Many of the supporters will ignore common sense until it affects their loved one. A daughter or a niece losing a scholarship, a race, or worse: getting beaten to a pulp. People that are supporting it are just thinking about feelings of the trans person and not the sporting landscape as a whole.

 

[sreggie101]

man gets his haircut at MIT? that fade/lineup is surgical...

 

[sooperhooper]

man gets his haircut at MIT? that fade/lineup is surgical...

Boosie fade is classic

 

[paulwest1985]

Many of the supporters will ignore common sense until it affects their loved one. A daughter or a niece losing a scholarship, a race, or worse: getting beaten to a pulp. People that are supporting it are just thinking about feelings of the trans person and not the sporting landscape as a whole.

This sums up the whole "trans athlete" issue in a nut shell. It's not rooted in science or facts but rather feelings. Any logical person and look at one of these swim meets that Lia competes in and see with their own eyes that this person has a huge physical advantage. But in this day and age even that is a controversial statement.

 

[IATT]

How many people are actually looking at the swim meets lia competes in?

I don’t think it should have been allowed

But I don’t know the science and won’t pretend to

But things were done at those ncaa women’s championship that had never been done.. and it wasn’t lia Thomas doing it.. just sad even when given the opportunity to care and celebrate those women, still hasn’t happened