NBA SG rankings (damnn-near perfect)

I believe KObe's footwork is more advanced than Jordan. Also in terms of advanced ball handling moves, it isn't close. Kobe wins. I also believe Kobe is more skilled. His ability to use both hands anywhere within 15 feet, ability to convert shots with high difficulty ratings (one can argue that this is even a skill, but I think it is). I think Kobe's game is more advanced than Jordan's was.

Jordan was more efficient of course and his team won more. Those two things stand out for Jordan.

Attitude wise and the will to kill at all costs, WASH.

I don't think Kobe will EVER be widely regarded as being better than Jordan. Even if K runs off 3 rings in a row. I don't see people finding it in their hearts to admit Kobe is the man.
 
^
Agreed, nothing Kobe can do will ever change the world's opinion.  Kid could 8-peat and we'd be dropping his ranking as a SG by the season. 
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I've said it a couple times, let Kobe finish out the career, finish with whatever numbers and accolades and titles he ends up with, and at the end of the day, he could be the second best we ever saw do it.  And 3-4 years after he's gone, the haters will soften their stances, and realized he was a damn monster out there.  I speak from experience, I hated Larry Bird with all that was in me.  But damn it, that guy could play.  I didn't "get it" until after he was gone. 
 
^
Agreed, nothing Kobe can do will ever change the world's opinion.  Kid could 8-peat and we'd be dropping his ranking as a SG by the season. 
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I've said it a couple times, let Kobe finish out the career, finish with whatever numbers and accolades and titles he ends up with, and at the end of the day, he could be the second best we ever saw do it.  And 3-4 years after he's gone, the haters will soften their stances, and realized he was a damn monster out there.  I speak from experience, I hated Larry Bird with all that was in me.  But damn it, that guy could play.  I didn't "get it" until after he was gone. 
 
If we go by the numbers, Jordan had 7 full seasons ('87, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '96) better than Kobe's best season ('06). Kobe will have a longer career and might pass some of Jordan's career numbers, maybe tie or pass him in rings (God forbid), but his peak just wasn't as high as Jordan's peak.
 
If we go by the numbers, Jordan had 7 full seasons ('87, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '96) better than Kobe's best season ('06). Kobe will have a longer career and might pass some of Jordan's career numbers, maybe tie or pass him in rings (God forbid), but his peak just wasn't as high as Jordan's peak.
 
The MJ vs Kobe talk above is very subjective. Kobe is still that dude tho.

At least the Wade arguments are based mainly on stats.

Kobe winning an 8-peat helps his argument as best SG, but once again, it is not the LA Kobes vs Miami Wades tho.
 
The MJ vs Kobe talk above is very subjective. Kobe is still that dude tho.

At least the Wade arguments are based mainly on stats.

Kobe winning an 8-peat helps his argument as best SG, but once again, it is not the LA Kobes vs Miami Wades tho.
 
Originally Posted by JD617

If we go by the numbers, Jordan had 7 full seasons ('87, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '96) better than Kobe's best season ('06). Kobe will have a longer career and might pass some of Jordan's career numbers, maybe tie or pass him in rings (God forbid), but his peak just wasn't as high as Jordan's peak.
Click to expand...

Kobe's best season was 02 though

And those late 80's MJ seasons were when teams shot with 18 on the shot clock and teams scored 110 plus easily. 

I'm not putting MJ down, but it needs to be brought up.  For instance, how many assists would Chris Paul rack up playin in the 80's?  Know what I mean?

And just for the hell of it, I even forgot to mention that when MJ was a kid, he was given free reign of the Bulls, when Kobe was a kid, he had Shaq takin the ball out of his hands most of the time.  If you just wanted to go "by the numbers" it's a shame we didn't get to see a 21-22-23 year old Kobe have the freedom to do whatever he wanted.  Personally, I liked it better the way it was, us winning.  But for your "by the numbers" argument, it wasn't the same.  Kobe scoring 30 PPG with another guy on the team also scoring 30 a night is more impressive to me then MJ scoring 34 a night with nobody on his team.  (hence me saying 02 was Kobe's best year, and not 06.)
    
 
Originally Posted by JD617

If we go by the numbers, Jordan had 7 full seasons ('87, '88, '89, '90, '91, '93, '96) better than Kobe's best season ('06). Kobe will have a longer career and might pass some of Jordan's career numbers, maybe tie or pass him in rings (God forbid), but his peak just wasn't as high as Jordan's peak.
Click to expand...

Kobe's best season was 02 though

And those late 80's MJ seasons were when teams shot with 18 on the shot clock and teams scored 110 plus easily. 

I'm not putting MJ down, but it needs to be brought up.  For instance, how many assists would Chris Paul rack up playin in the 80's?  Know what I mean?

And just for the hell of it, I even forgot to mention that when MJ was a kid, he was given free reign of the Bulls, when Kobe was a kid, he had Shaq takin the ball out of his hands most of the time.  If you just wanted to go "by the numbers" it's a shame we didn't get to see a 21-22-23 year old Kobe have the freedom to do whatever he wanted.  Personally, I liked it better the way it was, us winning.  But for your "by the numbers" argument, it wasn't the same.  Kobe scoring 30 PPG with another guy on the team also scoring 30 a night is more impressive to me then MJ scoring 34 a night with nobody on his team.  (hence me saying 02 was Kobe's best year, and not 06.)
    
 
That's really true CP, people won't appreciate what a talent and master of the game of basketball Kobe is/was until he's done playing. He's one of the few left of the "old school" mentality that will do anything to win and is constantly trying to add different elements to his game (KD seems to have that similar instinct as well). His accomplishments and numbers at the end of the day will speak for themselves. But still it will just be so much stuff off the court and how people perceive him to be this fake person that will keep them from giving him his due.
 
That's really true CP, people won't appreciate what a talent and master of the game of basketball Kobe is/was until he's done playing. He's one of the few left of the "old school" mentality that will do anything to win and is constantly trying to add different elements to his game (KD seems to have that similar instinct as well). His accomplishments and numbers at the end of the day will speak for themselves. But still it will just be so much stuff off the court and how people perceive him to be this fake person that will keep them from giving him his due.
 
Like DC mentioned, Kobe is maybe the best ever at making difficult shots, but MJ didn't take quite as many of those shots with an insane degree of difficulty. He was slightly more athletic in his prime and used his explosiveness to get easier looks, which is why he was at or above 50% shooting during his high scoring years. I know Kobe played on some garbage teams and was forced to carry the team singlehandedly at times, but he's never been as efficient of a scorer as Mike.

As for Kobe in '02-'03... it was a great year, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I don't get the argument that it was hard for him to score 30 because Shaq was also scoring 30. I know you hate stats like this, but look:

21evp10.jpg


Kobe was third in the league in usage %, so he should've been scoring 30, it's not like he wasn't getting enough touches... he was using more possessions than Shaq.
 
Like DC mentioned, Kobe is maybe the best ever at making difficult shots, but MJ didn't take quite as many of those shots with an insane degree of difficulty. He was slightly more athletic in his prime and used his explosiveness to get easier looks, which is why he was at or above 50% shooting during his high scoring years. I know Kobe played on some garbage teams and was forced to carry the team singlehandedly at times, but he's never been as efficient of a scorer as Mike.

As for Kobe in '02-'03... it was a great year, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I don't get the argument that it was hard for him to score 30 because Shaq was also scoring 30. I know you hate stats like this, but look:

21evp10.jpg


Kobe was third in the league in usage %, so he should've been scoring 30, it's not like he wasn't getting enough touches... he was using more possessions than Shaq.
 
Originally Posted by DipsetGeneral

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Who the heck is going to catch up to 10 SCORING TITLES?!

F' outta here...
Click to expand...
1. Who implied that he would?
2. Why is that the first thing you brought up? Is that what is the measuring stick?
 
Originally Posted by DipsetGeneral

laugh.gif
Who the heck is going to catch up to 10 SCORING TITLES?!

F' outta here...
Click to expand...
1. Who implied that he would?
2. Why is that the first thing you brought up? Is that what is the measuring stick?
 
No way Kobe would win 3 rings without Shaq tho or at least another legit player that can put up a lot of points on the Lakers in the early 2000's. And those rings speak mightily loud when comparing to MJ right?

Actually, why am I wasting timing disrespecting Shaq like that. He wasn't replaceable at that time on the Lakers. SMH @ people thinking Kobe was restrained when Shaq was there. Why do some people think Kobe was selfish? Cause he was deferring to Shaq all those years? Come on now...
 
No way Kobe would win 3 rings without Shaq tho or at least another legit player that can put up a lot of points on the Lakers in the early 2000's. And those rings speak mightily loud when comparing to MJ right?

Actually, why am I wasting timing disrespecting Shaq like that. He wasn't replaceable at that time on the Lakers. SMH @ people thinking Kobe was restrained when Shaq was there. Why do some people think Kobe was selfish? Cause he was deferring to Shaq all those years? Come on now...
 
Originally Posted by JD617

Like DC mentioned, Kobe is maybe the best ever at making difficult shots, but MJ didn't take quite as many of those shots with an insane degree of difficulty. He was slightly more athletic in his prime and used his explosiveness to get easier looks, which is why he was at or above 50% shooting during his high scoring years. I know Kobe played on some garbage teams and was forced to carry the team singlehandedly at times, but he's never been as efficient of a scorer as Mike.

As for Kobe in '02-'03... it was a great year, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I don't get the argument that it was hard for him to score 30 because Shaq was also scoring 30. I know you hate stats like this, but look:

21evp10.jpg


Kobe was third in the league in usage %, so he should've been scoring 30, it's not like he wasn't getting enough touches... he was using more possessions than Shaq.
Click to expand...

That's fine and dandy.  How much more could he have produced without Shaq getting 20 shots a game?  It's a chicken and an egg argument regardless, maybe Kobe would be worse since defenses would be on him non stop with no other threat, but the same would be true in that defenses being on him even more, might mean even more free throws.  Bottom line, can't produce points, unless you shoot.  More shots you take, more chances you have to produce.  Since we all know he's pretty good at getting shots off out of horrible situations, I'm pretty certain that if he had 3-4 more shots a game (the rest would be divvied up with a decent replacement at C, it's not like Kobe would get every shot of every game) but 3-4 sounds reasonable.  And off that, an extra 2 free throws, and maybe an added 3 attempted per game, you're talkin about a guy at 24 who would have done similar numbers to MJ's.  And the result would have been the same, Kobe and the Lakers wouldn't have won anything.  Just like late 80s MJ. 

It should also be noted, you all have heard of Phil telling Mike, ya know Mike, we have guys that can score, you could take it easy, rest more and be stronger in the playoffs, you don't HAVE to score so much.  MJ waived him off.  Naw, I'm gonna win the scoring title, AND the NBA title.
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  That's the great irony to me in that everyone claims Kobe is so selfish, when MJ did and said things like that.  Kobe has actually let some of his scoring go down.  He could still gun for 30 a night if he wants, you all know it.  But he's settled into a 26-28 point a game mode, he'll turn it up when he needs too.  (MSG, the first game back vs the Grizz, a lull game in a road trip, a game where 1-2 other players are sitting out) 

*shrugs*  Just points to consider, like I have said, MJ will be #1 for a long time, ifbe gets to #2, I and any other Laker fan won't have a problem with that.  (or at least, any other Laker fan shouldn't have a prob with that)
 
Originally Posted by JD617

Like DC mentioned, Kobe is maybe the best ever at making difficult shots, but MJ didn't take quite as many of those shots with an insane degree of difficulty. He was slightly more athletic in his prime and used his explosiveness to get easier looks, which is why he was at or above 50% shooting during his high scoring years. I know Kobe played on some garbage teams and was forced to carry the team singlehandedly at times, but he's never been as efficient of a scorer as Mike.

As for Kobe in '02-'03... it was a great year, I'm not saying it wasn't, but I don't get the argument that it was hard for him to score 30 because Shaq was also scoring 30. I know you hate stats like this, but look:

21evp10.jpg


Kobe was third in the league in usage %, so he should've been scoring 30, it's not like he wasn't getting enough touches... he was using more possessions than Shaq.
Click to expand...

That's fine and dandy.  How much more could he have produced without Shaq getting 20 shots a game?  It's a chicken and an egg argument regardless, maybe Kobe would be worse since defenses would be on him non stop with no other threat, but the same would be true in that defenses being on him even more, might mean even more free throws.  Bottom line, can't produce points, unless you shoot.  More shots you take, more chances you have to produce.  Since we all know he's pretty good at getting shots off out of horrible situations, I'm pretty certain that if he had 3-4 more shots a game (the rest would be divvied up with a decent replacement at C, it's not like Kobe would get every shot of every game) but 3-4 sounds reasonable.  And off that, an extra 2 free throws, and maybe an added 3 attempted per game, you're talkin about a guy at 24 who would have done similar numbers to MJ's.  And the result would have been the same, Kobe and the Lakers wouldn't have won anything.  Just like late 80s MJ. 

It should also be noted, you all have heard of Phil telling Mike, ya know Mike, we have guys that can score, you could take it easy, rest more and be stronger in the playoffs, you don't HAVE to score so much.  MJ waived him off.  Naw, I'm gonna win the scoring title, AND the NBA title.
laugh.gif
  That's the great irony to me in that everyone claims Kobe is so selfish, when MJ did and said things like that.  Kobe has actually let some of his scoring go down.  He could still gun for 30 a night if he wants, you all know it.  But he's settled into a 26-28 point a game mode, he'll turn it up when he needs too.  (MSG, the first game back vs the Grizz, a lull game in a road trip, a game where 1-2 other players are sitting out) 

*shrugs*  Just points to consider, like I have said, MJ will be #1 for a long time, ifbe gets to #2, I and any other Laker fan won't have a problem with that.  (or at least, any other Laker fan shouldn't have a prob with that)
 
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